Future of Xeon

[Harliquin74]

shashClp you have stated that.
PS2 main cpu is "only" 294mhz, so it's about 11 times slower than ONE of the cores of the Xbox 360. So, you would atleast need about 11x the power needed to run pcsx2. As you have 3 cores, you'd need 33x the power pcsx2 uses.

This would translate to 9.7GHZ which if split across the 4 procs of the new Quads would tranlate to 2.4GHZ each so with a quad 3.0 it should be possible I'm not saying it would be easy but possible.

Now on to the Import Bits. The reason most people (me included) would like to see a working emulator for the Xbox is so that eventualy some Geinius would embed it in a JRE (Java Runtime Environment) then we could use the same exploit they used with NesCafe to run all the Xbox Games on the 360 instead of waiting for M$ to pull there head out for the games we want to play.

[shashClp]

Originally Posted by Harliquin74

shashClp you have stated that.
PS2 main cpu is "only" 294mhz, so it's about 11 times slower than ONE of the cores of the Xbox 360. So, you would atleast need about 11x the power needed to run pcsx2. As you have 3 cores, you'd need 33x the power pcsx2 uses.

This would translate to 9.7GHZ which if split across the 4 procs of the new Quads would tranlate to 2.4GHZ each so with a quad 3.0 it should be possible I'm not saying it would be easy but possible.
(...)

Wrong, again.

That's without counting that PowerPC and PC are different architectures, and to emulate a PowerPC on a PC, about 5-10x of the power of the original machine is needed. So that would leave you with the need of a 97ghz PC...

[FrostyTheSnowman]

This whole conversation/debate is getting rediculous. It is pointless to debate when/if the XBOX 360 will be emulated, because no one really knows. And honestly, I don't think that there is NEARLY enough Microsoft fanboys for a decent emulator to be developed anyway. Just look at the original XBOX...

[Vlado]

but if you start to think about it the new direct x 10 vide cards and windows vista + dx10 games are gonna somewhat equal the 360 in graphics...*see screenshots of dx10 games *....and x360 games are already beaing ported to PC (splinter cell double agent , rainbow six : vegas.....ghost recon:advanced warfighter....etc.)

[BAXTER STOCKMAN]

Originally Posted by FrostyTheSnowman

This whole conversation/debate is getting rediculous. It is pointless to debate when/if the XBOX 360 will be emulated, because no one really knows. And honestly, I don't think that there is NEARLY enough Microsoft fanboys for a decent emulator to be developed anyway. Just look at the original XBOX...

The XBOX360 has MORE fans than the original XBOX.

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Originally Posted by BAXTER STOCKMAN

The XBOX360 has MORE fans than the original XBOX.

Spend 5 minutes on Xbox-Scene.com in the 'Xbox1' section, and you will find otherwise.

[JKKDARK]

Originally Posted by BAXTER STOCKMAN

The XBOX360 has MORE fans than the original XBOX.

Also, most of the fanboys don't want an emulator. Without Xbox Live, an emulator sucks.

[slayer410]

Originally Posted by JKKDARK

Also, most of the fanboys don't want an emulator. Without Xbox Live, an emulator sucks.

Just run it through XBC/X-Link Kia

[FrostyTheSnowman]

Originally Posted by slayer410

Just run it through XBC/X-Link Kia

Amen. X-Link Kai & XBConnect are basically the same thing as Live, except you don't have to pay anything, AND you can use them safely with your modded XBOX.

[slayer410]

Infact, if you show them a fairly decent Emulater, they might even add support for it within their program. I knew some of the devs.

[BAXTER STOCKMAN]

Originally Posted by Vlado

but if you start to think about it the new direct x 10 vide cards and windows vista + dx10 games are gonna somewhat equal the 360 in graphics...*see screenshots of dx10 games *....and x360 games are already beaing ported to PC (splinter cell double agent , rainbow six : vegas.....ghost recon:advanced warfighter....etc.)

nV News Forums - View Single Post - DirectX 10 Titles Here you can see some screenshots of the first DX 10 games! The grafics are better than the XBOX 360 and PS3 games. That because the 8800 GTX is more powerful than the PS3 grafics chip. So DX10 ganes will have better grafics than Next Gen consoles.

[blueshogun96]

@Baxter: Even if anyone was interested in emulating Xbox360, it would be impossible not because it's CPU is a triple core or anything like that, it's because the Xbox360's executable format (*.XEX) is poorly documented. The hardware is poorly documented also. Remember, without sufficient documentation, you won't be emulating anything!

[shashClp]

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

@Baxter: Even if anyone was interested in emulating Xbox360, it would be impossible not because it's CPU is a triple core or anything like that, it's because the Xbox360's executable format (*.XEX) is poorly documented. The hardware is poorly documented also. Remember, without sufficient documentation, you won't be emulating anything!

Blueshogun96: Could you please explain how you emulate a triple core PowerPC, clocked at 3.2ghz each in a current PC ? Even the fastest Gamecube emulators are unable to run fullspeed nowadays, and the gamecube is a single core 485mhz core! Three cores at 3.2ghz would take several spf on current gen, or next years computers, for that matter, we all know cpu emulation isn't suitable for multiple cores. Yep, we could see an emulator running at 30 spf, in the next few years, but if we consider this "emulation", we could consider Nintendo 64 emulation possible on a DS, or Gamecube emulation on a Gameboy mono, for that matter.

It's not that I consider slow emulation to be worthless, but which emu author would consider spending 3-4 years to emulate a system that would take about 5-10 years of PC technology to be runnable at 1-2fps? It's just a very different case compared to PS2 or Gamecube emulation, but I'll leave that explanation for a next post if anyone still doesn't believe.

[chipsugar]

You've answered your own question with the words "slow emulation". Emulation speeds may in generic terms slow development down but it is a lack of information that makes development "impossible" which is what BlueShogun said. See the latest on Nebula M2 for example and that is a current/last gen emulator.

OTOH I do think you have a valid point and even if you use quad core cpus for emulating a 3.2Ghz core on a 2.4 Ghz pc core and accept "slow emulation" it is still immensely inefficient. Assuming one emulated cpu per core there would have to be synchronization code so that a more loaded core (as other background processes will be running) *will* limit the speed of another core with less running on it. Also that would leave all sound/video/other emulation on just the one core. Maybe if pc cpus with more cores become available *and* the emulation can be written to map threads to use them perhaps something can be done.

[blueshogun96]

Originally Posted by shashClp

Blueshogun96: Could you please explain how you emulate a triple core PowerPC, clocked at 3.2ghz each in a current PC ? Even the fastest Gamecube emulators are unable to run fullspeed nowadays, and the gamecube is a single core 485mhz core! Three cores at 3.2ghz would take several spf on current gen, or next years computers, for that matter, we all know cpu emulation isn't suitable for multiple cores. Yep, we could see an emulator running at 30 spf, in the next few years, but if we consider this "emulation", we could consider Nintendo 64 emulation possible on a DS, or Gamecube emulation on a Gameboy mono, for that matter.

Sir, I never said that a modern PC could emulate the Xbox360's PPC CPU at full speed or anything like that. What I was saying was, "no documentation, no emu... period!"... unless you are willing to reverse engineer the system yourself. I was just giving Baxter another reason why there is no xbox360 emu, or even an attempt to make one. Catch my drift? Quite frankly, this may be as close as you'll get to "decent" documentation.
Free60Wiki - Free60 Wiki

Also (please note I'm not exactly recommending anyone to try this but) I think using HLE like Cxbx did instead of LLE would be a better choice, but on Windows, direct code execution would be impossible. The graphics libraries are highly similar to those used on xbox1 and is a superset of Direct3D9. That would solve part of the graphics problem, but that still doesn't make emulation "possible". This is just a thought, nothing more.

[finalanarchy]

I heard somewhere that the xbox360's 3-core cpu was about equal to a 3ghz single core cpu (i am quite possibly completely wrong).
As we all know ghz is not a direct representation of processor performance e.g. amd vs intel or the Pentium M.

The xbox360 does not need such a powerful processor as it is only processing for the games. What it does need to be is power efficient and run as cold as possible.

So if we say a amd64 3000+ is about on par with the xbox360 then there is the so called 5-10x more processing power needed to to emulate the PPC architecture.
So we need a processor with 15-30ghz.
We have what processors with a PR of 6ghz(6000+) now, so if apply Moore's Law thats in 18 months we have processors equal to 12ghz then another 18 months 24ghz.

So maybe 3 years before its comprehensible.

I heard somewhere that the xbox360's 3-core cpu was about equal to a 3ghz single core cpu (i am quite possibly completely wrong).
As we all know ghz is not a direct representation of processor performance e.g. amd vs intel or the Pentium M.

The xbox360 does not need such a powerful processor as it is only processing for the games. What it does need to be is power efficient and run as cold as possible.

So if we say a amd64 3000+ is about on par with the xbox360 then there is the so called 5-10x more processing power needed to to emulate the PPC architecture.
So we need a processor with 15-30ghz.
We have what processors with a PR of 6ghz(6000+) now, so if apply Moore's Law thats in 18 months we have processors equal to 12ghz then another 18 months 24ghz.

So maybe 3 years before its comprehensible.

[cuomocnbiho]

I guess for the PS3/360 emulators, 'we' need to switch to hardware emulation (like the PS3 "emulates" the PS2, and the NDS "emulates" the GBA), or else it won't be possible in the next 15years.

Wouldn't that be fun, buying a PCI-X addon with the PS3/360 CPU on it?

[wwe_72]

guys guys wtf is going on here i think u forgot urself this thread is called: Future Of Xeon not "XboX's specs equal to PC specs" this thread is completely Off-Topic now lol

[exzapel]

Know what the Xbox reminds me of? The Dreamcast.
For a while, everyone said it was REALLY hard to emulate, damn near impossible, and that you'd probably need a God computer to emulate it because it was so gosh darned advanced. As time went by like 12 people came out with emulators that are about as complete as this one, and people started to care less about DC emulation, but then Chankast comes along with it's near perfect emulation and all of a sudden everyone's like "HOLY SHIET, OMG, WORKING DC EMULATOR, AND IT WORKS ON THE WORKING MAN'S COMPUTER TOO!" And everyone lived happily ever after, with DC emulation.

Just a little story to keep the hope of Xbox emulation in one's mind.

EDIT: ALSO, what about using consoles or their CPUs in/as computers? Is this REALLY all that impossible that someone can't use a 360/its processor to run their computer from? I mean, it'd be totally freakin' sweet if I could use my Xbox 360's processor as my own.

[JamalNJ]

I'm Not trying to be rude, but that would be stupid. If you had a xbox360 cpu might as well play games on your xbox360 system lol