copyright law and you

[MistaKill]

while trying to fix a problem i have with getting a rom to load on no$gba, i came across a couple of topics in these forums related to it.
both were closed due to discussion of 'pirate software', which prompted me to have a look at your forum rules (it includes a blanket ban on trading/sharing/discussion of 'illegal software').

i own a NDS lite and a chunk of games, most of which i also downloaded a rom from the internet (the DS lites control pad cramps my hands, they're rather large).

-'piracy' (read: copyright infringment) relates to the distribution of 'intellectual property' which has not been legally licensed, i.e. 'buying a game'. once you purchase a copy of a game you can legally download as many copys of the rom as you want as long as you don't distribute them.
my point is this:
i can understand the ban from your side of the fence (covering your arse), but denying discussion of a given matter purely because a warez group is mentioned in the article is a little dogmatic, even if the rom was downloaded legally.
the article which inspired this post:
GTA Chinatown Wars error?

why take such a hard line? why not just moderate links/suspected distribution of roms? let the end user source them him/herself, the guilt will lie with them if they do it illegally.
it is a little disheartening to come across such vehement suppression of assistance. needless to say it is not only this site that takes such a conservative stance on the matter.
any insight into the matter would be appreciated.

bootnote:
piracy is not a legal synonym for copyright infringment, it relates to maritime law; specifically, the act of violence or depredation on the high seas (also covers aeroplanes)
if a body is charged with the crime of piracy in a court when they commited copyright infringment, the judge would be justified in declaring a miss-trial.
think of it as negative spin.

[Squall-Leonhart]

ROMS CANNOT BE DOWNLOADED LEGALLY.

Allowing discussion of illegally obtained materials, as of today is the same as aiding a criminal. especially where copyright whores are concerned. and since emuforums is hosted and run from the USA now, its under even heavier scrutiny as to what is discussed.

archival law covers a duplication of YOUR original media, and not somebody elses.

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[Hard core Rikki]

Members engage in witch-hunting by habitude, which sometimes can make it uneasy for everyone (the board can sound unwelcoming to newcomers), as well as force the hand of the moderation crew into moderating topics that contained no real offenses (such as closing threads where an OP is bashed copiously called pirate/flamed). A different stance from the past, as members (no longer) seem to just report and go to other threads without posting, but display 'detective work' publicly.

Since the dawn of emulation sites, there was a "dont ask, dont tell". People (and members) don't even actually care about how others obtain their games.

Catridge-based games are commonly named after a standard, such as ClrMAMEPro DATfiles or Cowering GoodTools.

ROMS CANNOT BE DOWNLOADED LEGALLY.

Neither MP3's.
The Virtual Console from Nintendo is an authorized reseller of ROMs, and contains literally the sameversions as "traditional" ROMs (other than wrapped inside a container with a few html files added).

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[Paratech]

Just a quick point, messageboards can have whatever rules they want. They are on some server that others are paying for, so those who own this site have the right to whatever rules they choose, regardless of how members feel about the rules.

I couldn't go into Samor's house and start telling him how to care for his house, it is his to do with as he pleases. As a guest, I would have to follow his rules. That is how it is with messageboards.

The other fact is if illegal ROM sites were discussed here, they may get into legal trouble. Even if they were innocent, court costs can bankrupt a company as it did Bleem! *Yeah you're welcome Samor*... :P

So this is up to those in power, not members and their interpretations of copyright law.

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[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by Hard core Rikki

Neither MP3's.
The Virtual Console from Nintendo is an authorized reseller of ROMs, and contains literally the sameversions as "traditional" ROMs (other than wrapped inside a container with a few html files added).

Well let's not cut corners there, in some of our countries (Holland and Canada) it's perfectly legal to download movies and music. Who knows what's allowed and what is not countries that do not care about copyright in the first place, since politicians actually have real matters to worry about?

Anyway, for Emuforums it is clear that there is a no tell/no lock attitude. No one cares, but also we don't like warez bragging. Emulation is a gray area, let's not help it to the black side of legality. Hypocrisy? In some cases definitely, that's not our care actually, as long as we can provide objective information to those who just want to run their games.

If you'd ask advise about a knife and how to slice most efficiently, we'd gladly help you. If you'd ask how you could most effectively cut a piece of meat, we'd still do. If that piece of meat would be your girlfriend, we'd tell you to bugger off. (Okay, copyright infringement =/= murder or assault, but both are illegal in the US of A)


[touch of reason]
Although said that ROMs cannot be downloaded legally, there's exceptions (as HCR pointed out). You already pointed out the licensing system, and how you have the right to play your games. I wholeheartedly agree on that one personally, and I definitely believe that if companies want to state that I don't "own" a game when I buy it, but have a license, then the obtaining of a backup should be legal as well, regardless of the source.

However, this is still not the case from a legal point of view, hence why you will not find support with materials that you pointed out have obtained in an illegal manner. We'd rather keep this place alive than take the risk with those copyright legal whores in the US

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[jonc2006]

Originally Posted by MistaKill

-'piracy' (read: copyright infringment) relates to the distribution of 'intellectual property' which has not been legally licensed, i.e. 'buying a game'. once you purchase a copy of a game you can legally download as many copys of the rom as you want as long as you don't distribute them.

Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

that is taken directly from the legal section of the FAQ found on nintendo's corporate website. not everyone may agree with it, but thats not really something that can be challenged by us.

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Last edited by jonc2006; June 29th, 2009 at 09:31.

[Xtreme2damax]

Originally Posted by jonc2006

that is taken directly from the legal section of the FAQ found on nintendo's corporate website. not everyone may agree with it, but thats not really something that can be challenged by us.

I'd have to say that is at least the most truthful thing to come from Nintendo, they could of claimed that even backup copies of legally bought media were illegal just like emulators are illegal no matter their method of creation or development.

This is pretty much what the courts in the USA have deemed, you are only entitled to a backup copy off of the original media that you own. You are only entitled to a backup off of your legally owned original media, not every copy in existence as it's considered someone else's backup. Also the 24 hour rule is bull crap, as is the common removal of ESA protected titles from rom sites. Distributing and downloading of copyrighted content is illegal no matter what fallacy or excuse you try to hide behind.

As was mentioned as long as you don't foolishly admit to downloading copyrighted material, there shouldn't be a problem (don't ask, don't tell policy). The only time there is an issue is when a member openly admits to downloading copyrighted material (games, bios, firmware etc..) or makes it startling obvious that the material was illegally downloaded (posting pictures of a collections of games or bios with common scene release names or from different regions).

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