If you were to completely port a program to another language...

[BigIg]

I was discussing this with someone but neither of us were sure of the answer.

If you were to port a piece of open source software to another language, i.e. Visual Basic to C#, would it still have to be released under the same license as the original software, since is technically contains none of the original code?

[Exophase]

GPL prohibits "derived work" from being released under an incompatible license. The precise definition of this is fuzzy, but calling something a port is basically admitting that it is derived upfront. Then again, "port" isn't necessarily the proper terminology.

In general anything that requires having read the original source to create could be considered derived, and I doubt any straight migration from one language to another wouldn't contain substantial evidence that it is a derived work.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by BigIg

I was discussing this with someone but neither of us were sure of the answer.

If you were to port a piece of open source software to another language, i.e. Visual Basic to C#, would it still have to be released under the same license as the original software, since is technically contains none of the original code?

well the thing is when you port a code to another language lets say Visual Basic to C# you will have to change lots of the code as many things have to be written in a whole different way... anyways i think you will have to write somewhere in your code a text saying that is a port of another public open source code. but am not sure of it.

one thing am sure tho.... millions of C/C++ close source apps being released as freeware or shareware contains lots of copy pasted code and that´s a fact.. only few people actually sit and do things by there own.. most of the coders do look at others code and write there things based on it... C/C++ is the most copy pasted language and that´s for sure....

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[Exophase]

Originally Posted by @ruantec

one thing am sure tho.... millions of C/C++ close source apps being released as freeware or shareware contains lots of copy pasted code and that´s a fact.. only few people actually sit and do things by there own.. most of the coders do look at others code and write there things based on it... C/C++ is the most copy pasted language and that´s for sure....

Doesn't make it legal, much less respectful.

I certainly have never copied and pasted GPLed code into a proprietary program, and I'm skeptical that it's as widespread as you think it is. Actually, without access to the source code in question, how can you make such a broad claim?

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

Doesn't make it legal, much less respectful.

I certainly have never copied and pasted GPLed code into a proprietary program, and I'm skeptical that it's as widespread as you think it is. Actually, without access to the source code in question, how can you make such a broad claim?

because is the truth.. am not saying you have copy pasted any code nor i have done that because i´ve prooven several times that i don´t even use windows controls lol.. the thing is you believe it or not lots of companies, employees or whatever you wanna call it face lots of problems while they are coding there apps and where do they look??? mmmmm let me guess google and internet... many of them check open source code and just write codes based on it... there are so many open source C/C++ code over the net and many people keep copy and pasting... that´s nothing new...

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[Exophase]

Originally Posted by @ruantec

because is the truth.. am not saying you have copy pasted any code nor i have done that because i´ve prooven several times that i don´t even use windows controls lol.. the thing is you believe it or not lots of companies, employees or whatever you wanna call it face lots of problems while they are coding there apps and where do they look??? mmmmm let me guess google and internet... many of them check open source code and just write codes based on it... there are so many open source C/C++ code over the net and many people keep copy and pasting... that´s nothing new...

You insist on it but you haven't given any actual evidence. There's also a difference between using open source code to gain an understanding of functionality or for other purposes such as verification and outright copying the code directly, which is what you're claiming so many people are doing commercially.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

You insist on it but you haven't given any actual evidence. There's also a difference between using open source code to gain an understanding of functionality or for other purposes such as verification and outright copying the code directly, which is what you're claiming so many people are doing commercially.

look i don´t want to start another discussion here.. when i talk about something is because am sure of it.... i don´t talk just for fun.. of course i won´t say were i´ve seen this and who have done this... i´ve worked in several places and visited many places were people code and i have eyes you know.. am not blind... am wondering tho why you still think that there aren´t people out there that just keep copy pasting.. so what´s the deal???? i haven´t said you copy paste any code.... but judging by your attitude and response.... have you???

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[Exophase]

I didn't say that I think no one is doing it, I said I think you're exaggerating. You said MOST coders do it, and that millions of closed source programs are released that contain GPLed code.

I personally have never witnessed anyone doing this, and I find your insinuation that I personally do it to be arbitrary, ridiculous, and mildly insulting.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

I didn't say that I think no one is doing it, I said I think you're exaggerating. You said MOST coders do it, and that millions of closed source programs are released that contain GPLed code.

I personally have never witnessed anyone doing this, and I find your insinuation that I personally do it to be arbitrary, ridiculous, and mildly insulting.

don´t get me wrong buddy but i think you are the first person i´ve met here or else where that have such faith to people... lots of beginners, or non-advanced coders what they do???? have you ever asked what they actually do when they create a app??? also companies keep copying others... even MS copy from others so i still don´t get your point and faith in people.... no way.. and yes i´ve sadly witness those things and as a optimizer and someone that loves to create things by itself it was depressing........... but that´s life.

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[Exophase]

I didn't say that I think no one is doing it, I said I think you're exaggerating. If people are doing something illegal would they actually outright admit it to a stranger? Much less a company...

If MS is doing it such that people actually KNOW about it then I have little doubt that it would be well known and people would at least be clamoring for a lawsuit against them. So again, it'd be nice if you gave actual evidence beyond hearsay. I don't doubt that people you've personally known have done it, but I don't know if this really represents industry standard.

There's a concept of "innocent until proven guilty." You don't have to believe that someone MUST be innocent in order to give them the benefit of the doubt without pressing evidence to the contrary.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

I didn't say that I think no one is doing it, I said I think you're exaggerating. If people are doing something illegal would they actually outright admit it to a stranger? Much less a company...

If MS is doing it then I have little doubt that it would be well known and people would at least be clamoring for a lawsuit against them. So again, it'd be nice if you gave actual evidence beyond hearsay. I don't doubt that people you've personally known have done it, but I don't know if this really represents industry standard.

of course it doesn´t... is stupid and wrong but lots of people companies are sadly doing that.. of course you can´t find proof for that as they keep them secret but that´s the truth nobody wants to say... in my case i find those things disgusting and depressing at the same time... but hey there´s nothing we could do. as for bigig question... am not sure if that would be ok.

the thing is there is too many C/C++ code on the net so people keep thinking.. "Why should i re-invent the wheel if i can just use it?"

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[BigIg]

Wasn't microsoft accused of using opensource code in Windows a few years back?

[@ruantec]

Here´s a nice article btw when i said MS is copying from others i mean that hey were looking from others ideas not exactly code.. but i doubt they are clean.

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[Exophase]

That article is about companies benefiting from open source software, not about them incorporating it into closed software by breaking the license agreements -_- Not all open source software is GPL - a lot of libraries for instance, and not all software developed commercially is closed either. As long as everyone plays by the rules are parties are allowed, in fact, encouraged to utilize open source software. This article does nothing to substantiate your claims.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

That article is about companies benefiting from open source software, not about them incorporating it into closed software by breaking the license agreements -_- Not all open source software is GPL - a lot of libraries for instance, and not all software developed commercially is closed either. As long as everyone plays by the rules are parties are allowed, in fact, encouraged to utilize open source software. This article does nothing to substantiate your claims.

i did not posted the link to substantiate my claims i just post it as a info... either way could we stop our never ending discussions??? this is a thread of my friend BigIg and i don´t want it to turn into the "No Comment" thread #2 please.

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edited my post as there´s no need to discuss this topic anymore... in fact i don´t have to proof what i said because if people use there common sense they will know is true... anyways lets stop this here.

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Last edited by @ruantec; June 5th, 2009 at 12:37..

[Hard core Rikki]

BSD-licenced code is freely reusable, and its known fact people/companies dont shy from doing it.


Cutting this short, and back to the op's actual question:

If you were to port a piece of open source software to another language, i.e. Visual Basic to C#, would it still have to be released under the same license as the original software, since is technically contains none of the original code?

Porting is a derivative work, and should be expected to be released under the same license, unless no relations to the original project exist (and it would be an actual new unrelated project recreating its functionalty, but not basing on the original one).

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[Exophase]

Originally Posted by Hard core Rikki

BSD-licenced code is freely reusable, and its known fact people/companies dont shy from doing it.

Maybe this was lost in the thread, but I didn't mean to say that it's not common for open source software to be incorporated into proprietary commercial projects if the license allows for it. Although GPL wasn't mentioned in the the opening post I think the context made it pretty clear that it is what was being referred to, or another license that requires the source to remain open if incorporated or modified.

There shouldn't really be any discussion about whether or not others are doing it when this code was written with the intention of allowing it. There's nothing immoral, disrespectful, or "unclean" about it.

What I was saying is that I don't think companies are very highly routinely breaking license by copying and pasting restricted open source code like that under the GPL into proprietary software.

Good attempt to bring this back "on topic" too, Hard core Rikki, but didn't I already say the same thing in my first post? I feel like I'm being ignored :/ As far as I'm concerned the poster's question has been answered, if there's a requirement for the thread to remain on topic then it's probably just as well if no one posts here anymore.

@ruantec; If you want to stop talking about something then you're free to stop without having the last word. It's not at all fair for you to make broad accusations, offer no evidence, then keep repeating things like "it's true and I don't have to prove it because anyone who has common sense will know I'm right." If you don't like arguments forming around this then I think you should take better care not to say these sorts of things. Unfortunately I seem to be the only one who takes issue with this kind of mentality :/

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Last edited by Exophase; June 5th, 2009 at 15:46..

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Well to be fair he did say he's seen it happening and is not just assuming it but does not wish to disclose who is actually doing it.
If you were to completely port a program to another language...

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[Exophase]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

Well to be fair he did say he's seen it happening and is not just assuming it but does not wish to disclose who is actually doing it.
If you were to completely port a program to another language...

I don't have problems believing that he's seen it (mentioned before) and I don't have a problem with him not incriminating who is doing it. I just don't think that his personal observations necessarily reflect everyone else statistically. There are tons of context biases that could disqualify it from being a good cross section.

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

you do have a point there

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