If you were to completely port a program to another language...

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

I don't have problems believing that he's seen it (mentioned before) and I don't have a problem with him not incriminating who is doing it. I just don't think that his personal observations necessarily reflect everyone else statistically. There are tons of context biases that could disqualify it from being a good cross section.

ok so if i get you right you´re saying my point of view is wrong right??? ok i accept it but... that means that you´re saying there are no many companies/people doing it right?????

if that´s the case i would like to visit your country(USA) because it seems like is a great place were no-piracy/stealing exists wow!!! a perfect place!..... just in case not talking bad about your country.. am just trying to understand your point of view for the first time and not keep missunderstanding your posts as we did in previous one...

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

No he's not exactly saying you're wrong @ruantec, what he is saying is that just because you have seen it at a few places does not mean it happens everywhere. He's choosing to give other companies the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty...that sort of thing.

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No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

No he's not exactly saying you're wrong @ruantec, what he is saying is that just because you have seen it at a few places does not mean it happens everywhere. He's choosing to give other companies the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty...that sort of thing.

thanks mate but i got his point on that allready... the thing is code stealers are like real life robbers.. there are some places where criminality is low but in other places is very high.. just because the place i live i haven´t seen any criminality or robbers doesn´t exists etc.. doesn´t mean that is not happening everywhere...

is like saying that piracy doesn´t exists just because i haven´t seen people pirating software... this remembers me a game company that got cought a while a go pirating 3D software aswell as photoshop lol! so the thing is i´ve seen people stealing code in many places that´s true but you can´t say it doesn´t exists everywhere...

thanks again for your note mate

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

You also have a point, but the thing is this thread is not about whether it happens or not (sure the chances that people will take the easy way out is always high) it's about whether the licence the code is first issued under transfers over to whatever other program uses the same code.

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No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

You also have a point, but the thing is this thread is not about whether it happens or not (sure the chances that people will take the easy way out is always high) it's about whether the licence the code is first issued under transfers over to whatever other program uses the same code.

OMFG mate!!! you are the best!!! and i totally agree with you.. i didn´t wanted to discuss about it but as you can see it´s turning that way... this thread was started by BigIg and it wasn´t made to discuss what me and exophase has been discussing since the first page.. the thing is i think Exophase and i can´t understand each other for a strange reason lol... anyways lets go back on topic and let BigIg get his response.

Cheers

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[Exophase]

Originally Posted by @ruantec

ok so if i get you right you´re saying my point of view is wrong right??? ok i accept it but... that means that you´re saying there are no many companies/people doing it right?????

if that´s the case i would like to visit your country(USA) because it seems like is a great place were no-piracy/stealing exists wow!!! a perfect place!..... just in case not talking bad about your country.. am just trying to understand your point of view for the first time and not keep missunderstanding your posts as we did in previous one...

Software piracy is a very different thing from license violations of GPLed code. We could argue about which has a greater impact or which is more "wrong", but that's far removed from the issue at hand.

If a company pirates photoshop then it'll be difficult for them to be traced, short of inspections/audits. On the other hand, if a company ships a proprietary product that utilizes GPLed code then it's not impossible to find conclusive evidence that demonstrates this. Whether or not this will hold up in court I don't really know, but it's much more traceable.

It would also be much more costly. If a company was found to have pirated software then their damages would probably be to pay the amount the software cost. On the other hand, if they were found to have been using GPLed source code, they would not only have to release all of their source code but they'd probably have to pay royalties of money earned thus far to the existing copyright holders. Unless the company is very small and was very unsuccessful then it would probably be much more damaging to get caught having incorporated GPLed code.

When I say that I don't think it's very widespread in commercial code it's not because I think that companies are honorable but because I think they don't want to take this risk. Usually code is reviewed and a decently sized company wouldn't let its programmers do things like this. Not that they'd let them pirate software either, but there's a better chance that no one would notice.

Now, if you ask me how many companies are using GPLed source code in proprietary products, the answer isn't so much that I think no one or few are doing it, the answer is more that I don't know how many are doing it. Without further evidence that's the best I can say. It's more fair to say nothing than to assume culpability. I do know there were some cases where companies were caught, but they came off more as thorough scams than legitimate endeavors, like CherryOS. And they didn't get away with it.

"On topic", if somehow the original poster still feels like he hasn't been answered (although we have, IMO) then the best thing I can say is don't modify someone's code to another language then think you can escape their language. It's not allowed.

[@ruantec]

ok Exophase if that makes you happy and makes you stop from discussing this nonsense then you won.... ok i accept it you won... am going to move to your place as it seems to be one of the nicest world and am not going to get angry and see people stealing things as it seems like everybody does the right thing there.... ok what´s the name of your world btw(because i live in a planet called earth)?

i have to agree that many companies such as the one i work now create everything by themself and don´t take such risks so am happy where i am now.
again let us stop this nonsense.. think whatever you want to think(for me with such believes i think you can be fooled very easy in real life) and am going to think my way... is that ok?

one thing i have to admit tho.. it´s great to see someone with such a faith in people... and i really mean it.

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[Exophase]

I think I say one thing and you read something entirely different, every time :P

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Exophase

I think I say one thing and you read something entirely different, every time :P

mmm that makes sense to me... but when i say one thing you also read something entirely different and that´s true too anyways let´s be happy now and forget all the fights/discussion we had..... friends?

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[Hatorijr]

as the famous phrase goes, **** happens

[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by BigIg

Wasn't microsoft accused of using opensource code in Windows a few years back?

i remember reading an article reviewing the leaked m$ windows source, where it listed all these bad-words the coders put in their comments.

but the article said they were really good about not stealing code.

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[Proto]

Now, if you ask me how many companies are using GPLed source code in proprietary products, the answer isn't so much that I think no one or few are doing it, the answer is more that I don't know how many are doing it. Without further evidence that's the best I can say. It's more fair to say nothing than to assume culpability. I do know there were some cases where companies were caught, but they came off more as thorough scams than legitimate endeavors, like CherryOS. And they didn't get away with it.

Then again we could argue that most of the companies or programmers using GPL for their propietary/closed source code, are actually just linking to a LGPL library, and as such they circumvent the problem.

In any case, I have several friends from my university who work at M$. The one I talk the most to works in something akin to the programming quality control department (aka the QC, aka the bug catchers ), and he often complains on how it is always a mess to navigate through the spaghetti code that Windows XP is at times.

-Hey Proto! That doesn't have anything to do with propietary code using GPL code without respecting the license!

Dunno, ask Schumi. In any case I'd say that the Free Software foundation should raise awareness on the restrictions of GPL'ed code and how it differs from other licenses to avoid this problems in the first place. Most programmers don't willingly break the GPL license, it's more than they just don't know the difference between the GPL and other open source licenses. Also, Intellectual property and informatics law should be a mandatory course in any programming related major. (because of this and many other reasons. I cannot imagine any other mainstream profession that breaks the law so routinely as that of a programmer).

OT:

Geez, in any case I've missed a lot of fun in this board in the last few days it'd seem. @ruantec sure has short fuse these days

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Last edited by Proto; June 9th, 2009 at 16:35..

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Proto

OT:

Geez, in any case I've missed a lot of fun in this board in the last few days it'd seem. @ruantec sure has short fuse these days

mmm probably.. anyways am trying to keep myself out of the forum for a while and try to cool down... my agressive temper(which i have even in real life) seems to be out of control lately. so i better leave the forums for a while until my temper get back to normal.

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