@ruantec C# course

[Mad]

Not really related to the topic, but @ruantec could take a look here:Windows 7 Managed Code APIs - Windows 7 for Developers - The Windows Blog
Maybe he can make his program work even better in Win7.

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[Hatorijr]

yea i showed him that a while back actually lol, i got it in an e-mail from a site i am subscribed to.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Mad

Not really related to the topic, but @ruantec could take a look here:Windows 7 Managed Code APIs - Windows 7 for Developers - The Windows Blog
Maybe he can make his program work even better in Win7.

Thanks for the link hatorijr showed me a similar page a while back.. the thing is even the old @ES was developed with a technology that is now being used at best on win7 in other words is like Win7 was developed to run @ES at it best and therefore i didn´t needed to change anything in the code to make @ES run smoothly. anyways i´ve been checking the new Win7 apis and they are quite nice.. those examples showed in the link are quite the basics i would say in comparation to other features that can be added to win7.

atm am dropping(so to say) the XP support... the reason for that is because is very time consuming and i can´t always fix stuff just because XP refresh mechanism is a crap... with that am not telling that am completely ignoring XP users but that am not wasting time with XP atm. anyways thanks for the link

last but not least am curious to know who voted for "No" in the poll here i´ll try to find it out.

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[S.T.A.R.S.]

Correct me if I am wrong,but shouldn't you guys wait until Microsoft completely finishes the Windows 7 operating system?It's still in beta...
Windows 7 is almost finished,but still not.I would rather wait and stick with XP until then.

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[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by Mad

I might start on C# again, now with more background info, i'll probably understand things faster. Just hope i won't mix the 2 languages

the good thing is most programming languages are similar; which makes learning new ones not so hard if you already know one.

i remember someone once said something like "a good programmer should be able to understand a new language within a few hours."

i always remember that quote when studying new languages for motivation xD
(obviously the quote doesn't mean you should know everything about the language within a few hours, but just good enough to work with it)

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[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by @ruantec

i know my english isn´t the best but at least i tried to explain things as simple as possible... mmmm i think i´ll have to re-check my lessons and make a bit simplier.

well, i would recommend you be "very descriptive" instead of simple.

i remember when i was a noob a lot of tutorials would tell me what code simply does, but it wouldn't explain descriptively how the code works, and why we were doing it that way.
so, i didn't learn much from those tutorials.

if you don't explain why and how the code works, then you'll only be teaching the people how to copy and paste.

(this is just a general suggestion, i wasn't in your old class so i don't know how you taught the stuff)

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

the good thing is most programming languages are similar; which makes learning new ones not so hard if you already know one.

i remember someone once said something like "a good programmer should be able to understand a new language within a few hours."

i always remember that quote when studying new languages for motivation xD
(obviously the quote doesn't mean you should know everything about the language within a few hours, but just good enough to work with it)

Whilst I only have the most basic programming knowledge I completely agree with what you said there. Although a language as completely different as C++ is does throw a bit of a spanner in the works as there's nothing quite like it when it comes to syntax.

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[S.T.A.R.S.]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

well, i would recommend you be "very descriptive" instead of simple.

i remember when i was a noob a lot of tutorials would tell me what code simply does, but it wouldn't explain descriptively how the code works, and why we were doing it that way.
so, i didn't learn much from those tutorials.

if you don't explain why and how the code works, then you'll only be teaching the people how to copy and paste.

(this is just a general suggestion, i wasn't in your old class so i don't know how you taught the stuff)

I totally agree with you.I remember when I started learning C# approximately 4 years ago,all I did was copying and pasting the code for each function...wether that function was a BUTTON CLICK EVENT and so on......But then after few months I noticed that if I don't understand the code,it's very hard to make something all by yourself WITHOUT copying and pasting.So I decided to learn "how to understand" the code.I remember when I found the code for windows shut down.All I did was copy and paste.I didn't understand a word of that code,but I didn't even really care lol.But then later I KNEW that C# is going to be SUPER HARD if I just do copy and paste WITHOUT understanding the code.

When I started to learn how to understand the code,it was pretty hard in the beginning,but later it was easier every time.I noticed that the code has logical words.Let's take the most simple for example.MESSAGE BOX.The code as we all know is:

MessageBox.Show("Hello there!");

Now let's split and explain every single word from this code:

Message = We want to display some text message on the screen.
Box = Something like a box--->The little window in which that text
message is going to be written.
. = We are writing the dot to open the menu which will provide us many
different options which we can choose to use for the previous part of
the code--->"MessageBox".
Show = We want to SHOW that text message on the screen.
("Hello there!") = But the computer doesn't know WHAT text we want to
display in the message box,(little box or window),so we
need to write THE TEXT which we WANT TO DISPLAY on
the screen IN that message box,(little box or window).
The text is ALWAYS written between the quotes and
in some cases like this one,the quotes and the text must
be inside the brackets.--->("Hello there!")
; = The semicolon must be ALWAYS written on the end of the statement.
(STATEMENT is ONE line of code).--->For example:
MessageBox.Show("Hello there!");

NOTE that this example is for the C# language.In Visual Basic (VB) language you DO NOT
need to write the semicolon on the end of the statement.


So this is how I started to learn to understand every new code 3 years ago.Yes I agree with you that people must understand the code otherwise the copy and paste won't help so much in the future,ESPECIALLY if the code is long and complicated.

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Be carefull with being too descriptive as well though (as S.T.A.R.S was there) cuz then your students will just think you are treating them like idiots and switch off completely.

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[S.T.A.R.S.]

Well it all depends on the student's knowledge...

Hey by the way,does anyone know where can I find .NET 1.0 SP2???I searched all over the google,but all I find are .NET 1.0 SP1 and SP3...

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Last edited by S.T.A.R.S.; June 6th, 2009 at 22:58.

[Hatorijr]

well for me i have been able to look at code and understand it easily since i took classes in high school, so its never been to hard for me, the only issue is trying to take that and reverse it to code the same thing on my own, i can understand by looking but using that same knowledge took a bit of work lol.

also about being able to learn a new language quickly i have a nice story on that which involved how i learned c# lol.

2 years ago a friend started his first c# class and well frankly he sucks at coding period so he asked if i could help which for him means do all the work for him so i decided to go along with it since it would allow me to learn a new coding language, took no time at all to learn how to do the basics for his assignments and had almost no trouble finishing even some of the harder stuff. good thing about it was when i got to having to take that class i was allowed to get bumped up to the advanced class instead XD.

i still have all of those assignments including a poker game that talks to you XD.

[S.T.A.R.S.]

Hey let me ask you something.Is it possible to take the new features from VS 2005 and 2008 and use them in VS 2002?Something like the service pack that contains those new features which I can use like any other components from the toolbox,including the code for them???
I admit that this is the stupid question,but I just had to ask.
Oh and is any of you able to find .NET 1.0 SP2 for the download???I was searching so much on google and Microsoft sites,but I just can't find it anywhere...

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Last edited by S.T.A.R.S.; June 6th, 2009 at 22:58.

[Dax]

Oldest one I can find: Download details: .NET Framework 1.0 Service Pack 3

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[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

well, i would recommend you be "very descriptive" instead of simple.

i remember when i was a noob a lot of tutorials would tell me what code simply does, but it wouldn't explain descriptively how the code works, and why we were doing it that way.
so, i didn't learn much from those tutorials.

if you don't explain why and how the code works, then you'll only be teaching the people how to copy and paste.

(this is just a general suggestion, i wasn't in your old class so i don't know how you taught the stuff)

while i understand your point and i totally agree with that it seems like you haven´t checked my previous lessons because otherwise you wouldn´t have written this... in my lessons i tried to keep things as simple as possible but also explain every single step and not skip them and say(we will explain that later etc.) as many books does. one of the books i used to learn C# was nice but it kept me showing C# stuff and saying "we will explain that later or you will see it later" so i just stay like "WTF???" and was a bit confuse because of that.. of course my C/C++ knowledges helped me to move fast and understand everything very fast because of the similarities of C++ and C# syntax-wise.

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[Hatorijr]

i do not think you can take features from 2005/2008 and use them straight away in 2002, you would most likely have to do a bit of the work yourself to make it work where as in 2005/2008, you would not need to.

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by Hatorijr

i do not think you can take features from 2005/2008 and use them straight away in 2002, you would most likely have to do a bit of the work yourself to make it work where as in 2005/2008, you would not need to.

there´s actually a way to do that but you will have to check the features you want from 2005/2008 decompile them and create them to run on your code.... it´s quite simple for a experienced coder but it could be a pain for others.

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[S.T.A.R.S.]

Originally Posted by Dax

Oldest one I can find: Download details: .NET Framework 1.0 Service Pack 3

I already have .NET 1.0 SP1 and SP3,I just can't find SP2......

Originally Posted by Hatorijr

i do not think you can take features from 2005/2008 and use them straight away in 2002, you would most likely have to do a bit of the work yourself to make it work where as in 2005/2008, you would not need to.

Heh too bad.This will maybe sound strange,but I like more to write most of the code by myself,then let new VS versions to do it for me automatically.

Originally Posted by @ruantec

there´s actually a way to do that but you will have to check the features you want from 2005/2008 decompile them and create them to run on your code.... it´s quite simple for a experienced coder but it could be a pain for others.

Lol then to me it will be a huge pain.I have never done anything like that before...

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Last edited by S.T.A.R.S.; June 6th, 2009 at 23:02. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Stop trying to hold onto the past S.T.A.R.S. or you will get left behind.
You may not like it but the future is the way to go.
Liberate yourself a buy a whole new system when Win 7 comes out and try out some new games and see what the future has to offer.

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[S.T.A.R.S.]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

Stop trying to hold onto the past S.T.A.R.S. or you will get left behind.
You may not like it but the future is the way to go.
Liberate yourself a buy a whole new system when Win 7 comes out and try out some new games and see what the future has to offer.

I agree with you 100%,but when I compare new things with older ones,everything is so easy.Programming some things under new language environments on new OS is much easier then on the old ones.And the reason why I like older ones is that if you learn to do something on harder way,it's much easier later when you start with the newest ones.

But don't think that I am not trying new things.I ALWAYS try new things like new OS and new VS versions.But most of the time,I come back to the old ones because on new things everything seems so easy lol.And I hate when something is easy.Don't ask me why lol.
Let's take for example VS 2002 and VS 2008.To make the same thing in VS 2002 you need to lose much more time then in VS 2008.BUT when you finally finish the product in the VS 2002 after all that HARD and LONG work,somehow I feel good and that it was worth all that time and work.

Just 2 weeks ago I was watching the differences between VS 2002 and VS 2008.I admit that the VS 2008 is much better with the .NET 3.5 SP1 for the difference of the VS 2002 with the .NET 1.0 SP3,but in VS 2008 everything is so easier and faster to make...whatever that is.In VS 2002 is harder and that is exactly what I want.I know I know...this is tupid I know.But I am just afraid that I won't be good programmer if I use just the newest VS 2008 considering that most of the things are so simple for the difference of VS 2002.

Also VS 2008 doesn't support old OS.Ok I know that NOBODY is almost not using those retired OS,but somehow I wouldn't feel good if I know that my programs will work ONLY on new OS.

Windows 7 and VS 2008 rocks.I FULLY agree with that.But let's just say that I am one of those guys who like to do the same thing on more harder and longer way.But let's make one thing clear lol.If the VS 2008 support old OS starting from at least Windows 98 FE and that it's application's size is just like those in VS 2002,then yeah...I would be deffinetly using VS 2008.Otherwise I will probably stick with the version 2002.BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT I AM NOT FOLLOWING ALL THE NEW THINGS LOL.BECAUSE I DO.How the hell would then I get the new ideas lol? Hehe...

Anyway if you ask me VS 2008 is deffinetly the best of all VS versions starting from VS 97.But then again with VS 2002 you can make most things if you lose much time trying to make that...

Ohh rauntec by the way...if I DO take the features from VS 2005 and use them inside the VS 2002 then I suppose I also need to have .NET 2.0 installed OR is it possible to use those features with just .NET 1.0 installed???

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[Hatorijr]

you do realize .net 2.0 still works in 98 right? just go look it up, as i did and it does work in 98 so you can make 98 capable apps in visual studio 2008 still lol. as long as the person on 98 goes and installs .net 2.0.