Windows Vista and Future Emulation

[HI-TECH]

I've been wondering when Windows Vista arrives will the teams like PJ64, PCSX2, and Dolphin have to start from scratch because of the fact that Vista is totally new software? Meaning do we have to wait for Vista versions of emulators to be released and how long would it take for developers to create their emulators on this new software?

[Player-X]

I don't think they will have to, so far Windows Vista is mostly just like XP with a few new features, and besides Microsoft so far has been good with backwards compatibility unless anyone programmed thier emulators to only work as 16bit apps

[FLaRe85]

Originally Posted by Player-X

I don't think they will have to, so far Windows Vista is mostly just like XP with a few new features, and besides Microsoft so far has been good with backwards compatibility unless anyone programmed thier emulators to only work as 16bit apps

Actually, under the hood, Vista is as different from XP as Windows 95 was to 3.1.

[HI-TECH]

That's good to hear but what about this
Will it be easier for emulators from the past that have not yet prospered to excel becasue of the new features Vista has to offer and the new DX10?

[FLaRe85]

Originally Posted by CaptainISO

That's good to hear but what about this
Will it be easier for emulators from the past that have not yet prospered to excel becasue of the new features Vista has to offer and the new DX10?

That's up to the authors.

[El_Diablos]

Heh, so there would come SSE4 and SM 4.0 support in PCSX2?

[KillerShots]

Originally Posted by Player-X

I don't think they will have to, so far Windows Vista is mostly just like XP with a few new features, and besides Microsoft so far has been good with backwards compatibility unless anyone programmed thier emulators to only work as 16bit apps

Where did you hear that? I haven't heard M$ say anything on the matter yet, but I know that the jump from '98 to XP lost a lot of compatibility with 32-bit programs (at least 30% of the ones I used to use). Personally, I'd be concerned.

[Clements]

I used Vista Ultimate RC1, and all the emulators I tried worked, along with almost all of my PC games. You shouldn't need to worry about a lot of stuff not working with Vista.

[firyace]

Think about it this way, At least Vista has more compatibility on winxp applications than winxp64 on winxp applications

[shafeen]

well i have one question will dx 10 be aafected with windows genuine advantage programme and also is linux going to bring any new os in competiton to vista

[KillerShots]

Originally Posted by shafeen

well i have one question will dx 10 be aafected with windows genuine advantage programme and also is linux going to bring any new os in competiton to vista

Linux is linux - the OS is not likely to change at all. On the other hand, the front end (gnome, kde, X, etc) is likely to change a lot. Something that's already available and that makes Vista's desktop improvements look like a toy is XGL, which works on any window manager (kde, gnome, etc), though it's designed for gnome specifically.

[Shin_Gouki]

Vista itself uses A LOT of .NET, i am hoping for some emu authors to start with .NET or Jave would be nice.
wbr Shin Gouki

[KillerShots]

Neither of which is suitable for emulation. You don't use .NET / Java on performance-sensitive projects.

[darth sephiroth]

Originally Posted by shafeen

well i have one question will dx 10 be aafected with windows genuine advantage programme and also is linux going to bring any new os in competiton to vista

i'd say vista is the new os from microsoft to compete with linux...
also, you don't use windows on performance sensitive projects, you use mac or linux.

[Shin_Gouki]

KillerShots- apparently ur wrong informed :O
It is another approach , u have to use new concepts & technologys( multithreading ..)
Report from JavaOne: High Performance: Writing a Sony PlayStation Emulator in Java
But it is possible , and IMO works good, a very nice alternative to the "usual" ASM,C,C++ Emu approaches.
Its "just" a little diffrent. But porting is for sure far more easy, and we dont have to stick with windows...
Accept it VM-Plattforms can be very usefull( look at GNOME 2.16!!)
wbr Shin Gouki

[Coolsvilleman]

well they might not have to change a thing. winxp is an NT based system so almost all NT programs work on it. I'm not sure if vista is an NT based system or like winxp has some backwards compatibility. Eithier way their site claims alot of old games will still work on vista so most likely pcsx2 will.

[darth sephiroth]

wouldn't bet on it. What i would bet on is eccentric performance, erratic crashes with unhelpfull or no crash report that consumes system resources untill you reboot (won't show up in task manager, which i'm betting is gonna have been ****ed up too)

[Shin_Gouki]

are u even reading???
Vista is nothing "NT" based anymore , it even got a new IP Stack which is not that good ATM...
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/ref...ackSurface.pdf
If u read a bit in here u'll find some very interesting things like the new IP stack does reveal the number of hosts behind a router.... nice isn't it?

U can't say:
oh new win, win2k is NT based... ok
oh new win,winXP ah just same .. NT based...ok
oh new win, Vista....i see NT based, WHAT did u make think that it is?
Besides the fact MS doesn't like that we look inside Vista , as far i know, Vista uses A LOT (.NET 3.0!!) of new Technology.
It not only "uses" the new .NET API, but is infact( to a certain extend) created using .NET Technology. IMO its "just" NT compatible but not based upon that technology. This fact will for sure draw "some" consequences...

If u only care about "pcsx2" runs or not, then i would say, for sure the devs will have to change some( a lot?) Code to get it running in Vista. The Memory Management will be quite different.

As i said above i'm hoping that Vista and its programming API(.NET) will give the Emulation-Scene a new (and much needed) direction. .NET is very mighty and if ur going for cross platform it is possible to "avoid" DX or at least put a foundation for Cross Platform of Emu Programs(like OpenGL GFX plug-ins for Linux).
I’m not that sure if Mono has already reached the "feature"-status of .NET 1.0 but i think, for sure that using .NET , Mono ( or Java) the future of Emulation Coding will be definitely interesting.
Problems occur i think because a lot of new ideas and concepts are needed. And most Emucoders /TODAY are relatively good in coding platform specific , high-performance Code using C, ASM and C++.
Those Languages have Pros- and Cons. Speed is for SURE a big (THE big?) Plus. But since more and more Platforms are evolving( yes there more than just "windows", since windows "itself" is changing) Cross Platform approaches are very important IMO.

Another good thing will be that Vista comes with "built-in" .NET and that’s really important. Because coders can rely on that when start coding e.g. an emu.

Windows does a lot of good things for the Software World( .NET),
But here 3 things i don’t like about MS:
-by inventing features they don't keep compatible with "old" software and hardware.
-they have bad cross platform concepts( .NET is helping a bit)
- they don’t give u freedom to use their OS as "u want"

:O ok i think said enough, i hope not too much , and i hope that u don’t ignore it just because its such a bunch of text
wbr Shin Gouki

[darth sephiroth]

Only took them 20 or so years... and it still sucks on every aspect except for this ".NET 3.0" thing.

[Shin_Gouki]

hehe i read a lot about .NET (diploma) the funny thing is MS was kinda forced to evolve like this ( mainly because of the Internet and its consequences).
So we should be happy kinda ^^
A lot of People ,especially with old hardware will think 3 times before they switch from XP to Vista...
But since Vista is Mircosofts "next Gen" PC-Gaming Platform a lot of kiddies will automatically switch to Vista..


wbr Shin Gouki