Windows Vista and Future Emulation

[darth sephiroth]

As for now, i don't see the difference between changing from XP to vista and changing between xp and linux. Thanks to "wine" (very easy to use) gamecompatability with the current games is most probably even higher in linux than it will EVER be in vista.
terminal:
apt-get wine

wine cdrom/setup.exe

wine /home/sephiroth/oblivion/oblivion.exe

that's how easy installing and running oblivion is. if that's hard or even advanced you can blow me

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[Shin_Gouki]

believe me im on the Linux pro side
but u wont get DX 10 fast on linux..and thats for sure the "only" thing which keeps developpers restricted to windows
Linux would need a Cross-Platfrom Gaming API, thats not so easy...
for sure u have some Components like: OpenGL , SDL and Mono but... with Windows u can say:
DX9 + new drivers are needed
for Linux it would be far moe difficult to describe and to install for the user the specific components.
Too bad
wbr Shin Gouki

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Last edited by Shin_Gouki; September 10th, 2006 at 18:18..

[darth sephiroth]

Bah, bull****, i just hope people can face the facts, "windows vista has crappyer compatability with the current games than linux, switch from xp to linux instead of vista and you'll see the games and hardware will follow! you'll even save about a thousand dollars"

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[Player-X]

Bah, bull****, i just hope people can face the facts, "windows vista has crappyer compatability with the current games than linux, switch from xp to linux instead of vista and you'll see the games and hardware will follow! you'll even save about a thousand dollars"

So far Windows Vista seems to do as well as Ubuntu Linux on most games baring driver dased copy protection

[SuicideClutchX2]

Originally Posted by darth sephiroth

Bah, bull****, i just hope people can face the facts, "windows vista has crappyer compatability with the current games than linux, switch from xp to linux instead of vista and you'll see the games and hardware will follow! you'll even save about a thousand dollars"

IM runing Vista RC1 epsxe is th eonly emu i run but 0 problems, i also run Far Cry, Doom3, and need for speed msot wanted black edition at full to near full settings no problems at all.

[darth sephiroth]

so? i'm only getting examples from windows here. I can run those games at full (or better ) speed at not-too-bad settings on my craptop once i changed my kernel (epsxe emulation as well) (it's 192mb ram, s3 integrated gfx, 1.5ghz celeron... etc on xp there is a constant MINIMUM of 80mb ram beeing used by windows, and i expect vista to be worse)

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[KillerShots]

Originally Posted by Shin_Gouki

KillerShots- apparently ur wrong informed :O

How so?

Originally Posted by Shin_Gouki

It is another approach , u have to use new concepts & technologys( multithreading ..)

Granted... though most languages have support for multi-threading. I routinely use Posix and native Win32 threads in all my cross-platform apps myself.

Originally Posted by Shin_Gouki

Report from JavaOne: High Performance: Writing a Sony PlayStation Emulator in Java

Good read - I wasn't aware of that... but I'm failing to see why it makes Java a "better" choice when you can just as easily have cross-platform C/C++ apps with high-performance.

Originally Posted by Shin_Gouki

But it is possible , and IMO works good, a very nice alternative to the "usual" ASM,C,C++ Emu approaches.
Its "just" a little diffrent. But porting is for sure far more easy, and we dont have to stick with windows...

I'm fully with you there - variety is definately good, and portability is better. I personally wouldn't use java if I were writing an emu or game, but I certainly won't belittle anyone for trying.

__________________
Primary
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Mobo: Biostar N4SLI-A9 RAM: 2G Crucial (DDR400) Video: eVGA GeForce 7900 GTX (512M) Audio: HDA X-Mystique HD(s): Maxtor 300G SATA2, Samsung 400G SATA2 OS(s): WinXP x64 Pro, Vista x32 Ultimate, Gentoo x64 Monitor(s): Primary - 19" Flat Panel (1280x1024) Secondary - 19" Flat Panel (1280x1024) Tertiary - Zenith 42" Plasma TV (1024x768 res)

Many other machines... sig too short

[darth sephiroth]

yeah, screw a little dump in performance, the increase in portability will make it usable in other OS' that require so little resources for themselves that it makes up for the performance loss

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[Shin_Gouki]

still u need the command line and a very important aspect on that is:
"no average user in windows has EVER touched a command line, nor do they ever want to.

Everything packed into a simple gui is the only way ubuntu (and linux as a whole) will ever become mainstream"
thats from a win/linux discusion.
Andi totally agree with that. Linux enables u to choose, but there HAVE to be an option for users which don't want to touch the command line.
(but because not all other people are like us , we like our PC and to tune/install and customize it, even via command line )
Of course its a challeging task but i think (may be ubuntu ) Linux is be able to do it

@KillerShots
well in the thread i mentioned earlier there was something about "corss-platform"-issues...or it east it should be, i'm really interested how well the psx emu would perfrom under linux and windows...

Hey BTW: why dont we make an: Emu/Gaming Thread , there we could show how "easy" it is to get gaming/emulation going ?
What u think? That would be a nice ngEmu artice don't cha think?

wbr Shin Gouki

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Last edited by Shin_Gouki; September 11th, 2006 at 20:51..

[darth sephiroth]

dunno, but the thing about people hating command-lines is just like the reason everybody fails maths, because they're expecting it to be a extremely difficult good-for-nothing pain.
wich is pure bull****... you'll only need to learn TWO commands yourself, "apt-get" and "sudo"... and thanks to kynaptic package manager even those are uneccesary.... in other words, the only ubuntu terminal commands you actually need to do are those you copy from the web page you found what you wanted to do/install.

and personally, i like typing a simple "gedit" instead of going the long way:
->start->programfiles->10-30secs of searching->acessories->notepad/wordpad.

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[Shin_Gouki]

right but if its on ur desktop ...
I think the command line thing refers not too much on starting a programm but more how to install.
But dont lets discuss about that, what u think about the other idea?
wbr Shin Gouki

[Project Epsilon]

lol, i'm the exact opposite! i hate the command line because i've become lazy from the point and click ways of windows. i'd much rather use one hand to go into the control panel and change my page file to another partition than to type out several paragraphs of commands to do the same. thankfully i've barely had to do these things with xubuntu...

__________________

[fivefeet8]

Originally Posted by darth sephiroth

etc on xp there is a constant MINIMUM of 80mb ram beeing used by windows, and i expect vista to be worse)

I'm dual booting with Vista RC1 and Xp pro. Xp Pro uses about 150 megs of ram while idle(no programs running). Vista takes up about 450 megs idle!!! Yikes, I need more ram. At a recent TS2 seminar I was told that 1 gig of ram would suffice for Vista, but 2 gigs was recommended.

My experience with RC1 is that it uses Dual Core's a lot better than Xp. Having a HD 1080p WMV video running in WMP11 and surfing the net while opening many windows was very smooth. The video didn't even flinch while I surfed/moved/opened/closed many windows. In Xp pro, it stuttered a bit, then smoothen out.

Haven't had the chance to run a lot of emulators, but I tried out Splinter Cell 3: CT and it ran fairly well. Probably as fast as on Xp pro. The only emulator I've tried is Mame32 and it ran fine.

__________________
Play emulated games online
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SimplyBuyIt - Health&Nutrition

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Last edited by fivefeet8; September 15th, 2006 at 21:12..

[darth sephiroth]

Originally Posted by fivefeet8

I'm dual booting with Vista RC1 and Xp pro. Xp Pro uses about 150 megs of ram while idle(no programs running). Vista takes up about 450 megs idle!!! Yikes, I need more ram. At a recent TS2 seminar I was told that 1 gig of ram would suffice for Vista, but 2 gigs was recommended.

holy ****
i just upgraded my laptop and got 256mb more ram, and it'll actually be LESS available in vista after the upgrade than in xp BEFORE the upgrade?
*adds another why-linux-instead-of-vista line to the near full notepad*


btw. now that we're talking about vista, how can you uninstall it. My da' went and installed a... uh... legal... copy of vista and wants to uninstall it, because he learned the hard way it was crap just like i've tried to tell him the past year. However that doesn't seem to be possible... damned microsoft trying to enforce your software now too?

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[fivefeet8]

You can uninstall Vista RC1 the same way you would uninstall any OS. Reformat. I didn't do an update though, I did a fresh install of it on another partition. If you think the ram requirements are high, an install requires atleast 15 gigs of HD space for all neccessary install files. After install, the OS itself takes up about 10 gigs.

Even though Vista takes up a lot of ram, it seems to have better memory management that XP. Windows and applications open up a lot smoother. And of course multi-tasking is noticeably smoother.

__________________
Play emulated games online
Main Rig||Intel Q6600@3.2 ghertz|4x1gb DDR2 1066|Asrock 1600sli 110db LGA 775|EVGA 8800gtx@620/1450/975|2x Seagate 160gb SATA150 Raid0|250 gb Samsung SATA2 HD|Seagate 7000.10 500gb HD|NEC 3520 4x/8x DVD+R/RW DL burner|Antec TP 650 watt|40" Sony Bravia 1080p|20.1" 5ms LCD 1680x1050 Native|Logitec 5.1 Speaker System w/15" Sub|Dual Boot Ubuntu 64bit/Vista 32bit||

SimplyBuyIt - Health&Nutrition

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Last edited by fivefeet8; September 15th, 2006 at 22:56..

[fivefeet8]

The more I use Vista, the more I like it. There are of course a lot of issues still being worked out. Most of which are premature 3rd party drivers for their hardware.

I was recently delighted to be able to play 2 WMV HD 720p video clips on windows vista while a third clip played in a small preview window above the tab task bar while my mouse hovered above the tab. All without any issues with sound or video. Vista was also able to play those 2 videos with me surfing the web without any much as a hicup while I opened and closed severl IE7 windows and tabs. It's amazing how smooth the video played while I opened, closed, and accessed the Hard Drive.

In the emulation arena, I've tested Satourne, Yabause, and SSF. All ran well with the usual emulator related issues. The only downside to emulation and games in general is that Vista no longer supports legacy gameports. My MS sidewinder gameport no longer works in Vista, but luckily my PS2 controller with the Kiki Joy adapter works fine. Can't really play any 2d fighting games with it though.

I'll probably run some N64 and PSX emulators next.

__________________
Play emulated games online
Main Rig||Intel Q6600@3.2 ghertz|4x1gb DDR2 1066|Asrock 1600sli 110db LGA 775|EVGA 8800gtx@620/1450/975|2x Seagate 160gb SATA150 Raid0|250 gb Samsung SATA2 HD|Seagate 7000.10 500gb HD|NEC 3520 4x/8x DVD+R/RW DL burner|Antec TP 650 watt|40" Sony Bravia 1080p|20.1" 5ms LCD 1680x1050 Native|Logitec 5.1 Speaker System w/15" Sub|Dual Boot Ubuntu 64bit/Vista 32bit||

SimplyBuyIt - Health&Nutrition

[Shin_Gouki]

This show a nice implementation of prioritys and scheduler functions. I don't know about the codec but for sure u should try the same thing under Linux , may ( just maybe ) u could get out more of ur hardware.
My decision is set: i won't use Vista till i have too. I like Software which brings features and still trys to keep hw-requirements low. Since i'm not playing much games besides Emulation , i think i won't miss Vista ^^°
wbr Shin Gouki

[darth sephiroth]

Originally Posted by fivefeet8

You can uninstall Vista RC1 the same way you would uninstall any OS. Reformat. I didn't do an update though, I did a fresh install of it on another partition. If you think the ram requirements are high, an install requires atleast 15 gigs of HD space for all neccessary install files. After install, the OS itself takes up about 10 gigs.

Even though Vista takes up a lot of ram, it seems to have better memory management that XP. Windows and applications open up a lot smoother. And of course multi-tasking is noticeably smoother.

i won't have diskpace enough for it on my xp partition (okok, i'll have 5,5GB available...)
i can't BELIEVE how unoptimised vista is... i thought XP was an insane piece of crap, vista is even crazier piece of half-retted crap , i'll thank god i'm a pretty much linux-full-timer

Originally Posted by fivefeet8

The more I use Vista, the more I like it. There are of course a lot of issues still being worked out. Most of which are premature 3rd party drivers for their hardware.

I was recently delighted to be able to play 2 WMV HD 720p video clips on windows vista while a third clip played in a small preview window above the tab task bar while my mouse hovered above the tab. All without any issues with sound or video. Vista was also able to play those 2 videos with me surfing the web without any much as a hicup while I opened and closed severl IE7 windows and tabs. It's amazing how smooth the video played while I opened, closed, and accessed the Hard Drive.

you're lagging behind, VLC (available in windows) is able to play up to five videos without too much strain since like the dawn of ages. ALthough it probably won't be able to in vista since vista consumes and confuses your hardware.

The only downside to emulation and games in general is that Vista no longer supports legacy gameports.

yeez, another "why not get vista" note... AGAIN! (i think it's near big enough to come under the classification of a novell and not a short story, my note list ).

__________________

"Going too far is going almost all the way around the world, then turn around to go back" - me
"He's not going too far, he's going around the world" - me
"They're looking for a factbook in the fiction section of the library." - me
"I find spam useless and fatally contradictive to its own existence." - me

[S.SubZero]

Originally Posted by darth sephiroth

i won't have diskpace enough for it on my xp partition (okok, i'll have 5,5GB available...)
i can't BELIEVE how unoptimised vista is... i thought XP was an insane piece of crap, vista is even crazier piece of half-retted crap , i'll thank god i'm a pretty much linux-full-timer

Last time I checked, Linux wasn't exactly small. XP was still fitting on one CD when Linux ballooned to three discs+. Of course alot of it is optional stuff, but unless you KNOW what you need and don't need you have no idea what discs to download and which not to. XP may seem bloated, but that's just because they'd rather just give you everything (on one disc) than allow you to accidentally not install something you need.

Originally Posted by darth sephiroth

yeez, another "why not get vista" note... AGAIN! (i think it's near big enough to come under the classification of a novell and not a short story, my note list ).

Legacy game ports are called "legacy" for a reason. I haven't had one in my PCs for years. USB is the FUTURE (actually it's about 9 years ago) so give in and join the 2000AD+ club.

__________________
-SSZ

[KillerShots]

Originally Posted by S.SubZero

Last time I checked, Linux wasn't exactly small. XP was still fitting on one CD when Linux ballooned to three discs+. Of course alot of it is optional stuff, but unless you KNOW what you need and don't need you have no idea what discs to download and which not to.

Actually, that's about 30 megs of required stuff + 3 extra CDs of extra stuff. Different distributions also have different amounts of stuff to install. DSL takes next to nothing. Most Live CDs are (by definition) able to fit on one disc. Gentoo fits on a 50 meg disc (and balloons as it installs, granted). Debian still fits on 3 floppy discs for installation media.

Originally Posted by S.SubZero

XP may seem bloated, but that's just because they'd rather just give you everything (on one disc) than allow you to accidentally not install something you need.

... and they're still missing out on the most basic of tools required for most operating systems. Does Vista come with a built-in C compiler? Microsoft has consistently been the only OS around that did not ship a C compiler with its OS.

Originally Posted by S.SubZero

Legacy game ports are called "legacy" for a reason. I haven't had one in my PCs for years. USB is the FUTURE (actually it's about 9 years ago) so give in and join the 2000AD+ club.

Actually, legacy game ports were no longer supported in Windows XP either, IIRC. I really had to tear my room apart to find my gameport->usb adapter to get my hammerhead FX working... I think it was because XP stopped support... or maybe the drivers were USB only for XP.

__________________
Primary
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Mobo: Biostar N4SLI-A9 RAM: 2G Crucial (DDR400) Video: eVGA GeForce 7900 GTX (512M) Audio: HDA X-Mystique HD(s): Maxtor 300G SATA2, Samsung 400G SATA2 OS(s): WinXP x64 Pro, Vista x32 Ultimate, Gentoo x64 Monitor(s): Primary - 19" Flat Panel (1280x1024) Secondary - 19" Flat Panel (1280x1024) Tertiary - Zenith 42" Plasma TV (1024x768 res)

Many other machines... sig too short