Vista: good or bad?

[Squall-Leonhart]

superfetch should cache in the ****ing page file. theres no need for every program you run to be preloaded in system memory.

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[S.T.A.R.S.]

LoL install OS Vista if you have 16 GB RAM like my friend does
Otherwise stick with OS XP or everything will work like crap on Vista if your PC has little RAM and weak processor.Right now XP is still the most used.And time by time RAM will grow and THEN Vista will own!! But now XP owns =p And who cares about good looking OS Vista.Just install the Vista skin lol.Some people like Vista because it looks nice.Bah! That's stupid.Install Vista on the PC because it looks nice.Who cares about that if everything will work like crap

(SPACE!!! :P.......wohooo)

One of my buddies on the net bought the laptop which was strong like mine,(that means it was weak ),and he got preinstalled Vista on it! Bad thing was that he was not been able to install XP on that laptop.The games were working slow even at the worts graphic quality.Hell and DirectX 10 if everything works so slow.Use XP unless you have super strong PC......my laptop would probably melt if I install Vista on it hahaha

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[rama2]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Blader

Unused ram is wasted ram. If you are not using the other 3.5 gb then what is the point of having it.

Quoted for truth

[Chaos_Blader]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

superfetch should cache in the ****ing page file. theres no need for every program you run to be preloaded in system memory.

That defeats the whole purpose of caching. the point of caching is too load the files into RAM so that they would load faster. Moving it to the page file would just be the same as moving all the files to the root of your hard drive (the speed will still be the same no matter where it is on the hard drive).

Haven't you wondered why cpu caches are located on the cpu instead of RAM?

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[Glaedrin]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Blader

Unused ram is wasted ram. If you are not using the other 3.5 gb then what is the point of having it. I would prefer if the all of the OS's major files filled up my 4gbs ram. 100% usage that only goes down when other programs of higher prority come to fill it up. More files in ram instead of the hard drive = faster loading times.

Yes and No, RAM needs power continuously supplied to it to keep its' memory, it is not like flash that can just hold it without power. If you have your RAM full, then you are using loads of power and your bandwidth is full, meaning if your app needs to change what's in the memory that it will take longer to do.

I am kind of wondering how Server 2008 will do with virtualization** as that is now the current trend in the business market.


**try to max out a server with multiple instances of an OS, instead of having more than one server that are not maxed out

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Blader

If dx10 requires optimised code isn't that a good thing?

No, it isn't, It gives people the false idea that Dx10 is faster because of Vista+Dx10 being faster, when its just the games code that is cleaner, and better optimised. Mudlord, we should get spacy to do up a Dx9 vs Dx10 demo so the people can see what clean code is capable of under Dx9.
Should also do a OpenGL one as well to demonstrate what a better API all around is capable of :P, however that will need to wait for OGL3.

Unused ram is wasted ram. If you are not using the other 3.5 gb then what is the point of having it. I would prefer if the all of the OS's major files filled up my 4gbs ram. 100% usage that only goes down when other programs of higher prority come to fill it up. More files in ram instead of the hard drive = faster loading times.

Err, wrong, Unecessarily used ram is wasted ram, Unused memory is memory thats available at any moments notice to open new programs.

Used Ram has to be dumped to the pagefile until the required free memory is available.

Not only does constant page swapping decrease performance during a windows session, it also increases shutdown times, and decreases overall system performance due to pagefile fragmentation.

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[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

superfetch should cache in the ****ing page file. theres no need for every program you run to be preloaded in system memory.

There's no harm either.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Blader

That defeats the whole purpose of caching. the point of caching is too load the files into RAM so that they would load faster. Moving it to the page file would just be the same as moving all the files to the root of your hard drive (the speed will still be the same no matter where it is on the hard drive).

Haven't you wondered why cpu caches are located on the cpu instead of RAM?

No it wouldn't Pagefile access is faster then accessing most other files on the hdd, and the fact is the pagefile is a physical non volatile cache anyway, so it wouldn't need to be rebuilt on every startup, again increasing performance.

If nobody had realised quite yet, whether windows has plenty of free ram or not, it always loads a portion into the pagefile, since the Pagefile doesn't have to load itself to itself, it would be faster to cache the programs in the pagefile, and pull them out to ram as they are required.

Infact techniques like this already exist in a few versions of linux..

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Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; July 26th, 2008 at 05:15..

[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by S.T.A.R.S.

LoL install OS Vista if you have 16 GB RAM like my friend does
Otherwise stick with OS XP or everything will work like crap on Vista if your PC has little RAM and weak processor.Right now XP is still the most used.And time by time RAM will grow and THEN Vista will own!! But now XP owns =p And who cares about good looking OS Vista.Just install the Vista skin lol.Some people like Vista because it looks nice.Bah! That's stupid.Install Vista on the PC because it looks nice.Who cares about that if everything will work like crap

(SPACE!!! :P.......wohooo)

One of my buddies on the net bought the laptop which was strong like mine,(that means it was weak ),and he got preinstalled Vista on it! Bad thing was that he was not been able to install XP on that laptop.The games were working slow even at the worts graphic quality.Hell and DirectX 10 if everything works so slow.Use XP unless you have super strong PC......my laptop would probably melt if I install Vista on it hahaha

*facepalm*.....
Just....
*facepalm*

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by rama2

Quoted for truth

Quoted for WRONG.

You people seem to have little idea if any about optimizing system performance....

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[Spyhop]

K....jesus.....turn superfetch off. Argument over. Move on to next point to argue about now.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Blader

If dx10 requires optimised code isn't that a good thing?

Also if he's 50 yeats old what does he need free ram for? What does anyone need free ram for? Disable superfetch, etc but why? Because it uses ram?

Unused ram is wasted ram. If you are not using the other 3.5 gb then what is the point of having it. I would prefer if the all of the OS's major files filled up my 4gbs ram. 100% usage that only goes down when other programs of higher prority come to fill it up. More files in ram instead of the hard drive = faster loading times.

I never said I'm getting him another 3.5-4gb of ram, thats overkill particularily since he's not a gamer or multitasker and his 32bit os cannot address all the 4gb mem (just mentioning that last point since people like to 'educate' me on fun tidbits like that as if i didn't know it already).

I'm guessing he's using all his ram and then some. He only has 512mb of memory and I'm suggesting he spend $20 and get another gig of ram. It could make vista a bit snappier since he said windows xp seemed faster than vista. I think memory is the issue with vista seeming generally slower than xp.

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[Chaos_Blader]

Even if dx10 is not faster, just for the fact that it requires stricter code makes it better. Would you rather devs continue the trend of ****ty code, with average graphics that only runs on extremes and gtxs? In most cases stricter code means faster performance. C++ vs visual basic, cell vs x86

Now I doubt super fetchs ram is dumped into the page file, that would be counter productive (A cache of a cache?). But honestly, vista uses more ram than xp? Vista brings new hardware reqs to the table and machines not cabable of running it should not. Windows 98 uses WAY less ram than xp but that doesn't mean xp sucks. Yes linux distros can do the same and more as vista with a fraction, but microsoft is forced to build on what it has. With all the resources and minds microsoft has I bet if it built a new os from the ground up and nuked all support from windows 7 and downward, it would pwn. That's what im waiting for them to do. But for now when I upgrade my os I will also be upgrading my system.

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[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by Spyhop

Um, it is.

vista should come slim and unbloated; and then have the options to turn-on the useless stuff if wanted.

it shouldn't have them on by default; because then you have to spend hours figuring out how to tweak everything to turn all that crap off.


when you play a video-game does it automatically change all options to SUPER HIGH detail graphics?

no; it changes them to low-graphics and small-resolution so the game actually works fast!
then the user can change them if needed.

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[Xblade]

Originally Posted by Chaos_Blader

Now I doubt super fetchs ram is dumped into the page file, that would be counter productive (A cache of a cache?). But honestly, vista uses more ram than xp? Vista brings new hardware reqs to the table and machines not cabable of running it should not. Windows 98 uses WAY less ram than xp but that doesn't mean xp sucks. Yes linux distros can do the same and more as vista with a fraction, but microsoft is forced to build on what it has. With all the resources and minds microsoft has I bet if it built a new os from the ground up and nuked all support from windows 7 and downward, it would pwn. That's what im waiting for them to do. But for now when I upgrade my os I will also be upgrading my system.

If microsoft were to stop support for previous version when they release a newer then everyone would change there tune. Everyone radio would be turned on to Linux. If microsoft tries to force us to upgrade then there gonna lose their "user friendly(for dumb bimbos) hype they got going. The veil will be moved and everyone will see Linux for what it really is. A better, more stable, cheaper os that uses less resources then Vista.

Vista is an epic unoptimized failure.

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Originally Posted by Sonic2036

the PS3 needs to be a little more slimer??? the way I see it , its as big as a laptop lol
i remember psp slime was more slimey

V
l

[Squall-Leonhart]

I would much prefer Developers weren't so lazy with Dx9, Coding for Dx9EX isn't that much different to 9c, however it gains the same benefits of enforcing stricter code,
increased performance is an indirect result of Dx10, however it clearly showcases that less performance Via DX9 is due to developers being lazy.


Anything put into system ram is swapped out to the pagefile when another application requires the ram. Even core system files (Which both Vista and XP do by default, however there is a registry key to keep core files in memory).

If Microsoft had any clue they would nuke support for previous OS's now WITH windows 7.

They could easily implement a similar method to how OS8/9 apps work on OSX (It loads OS9 in virtually however its given hardware level access.

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[mudlord]

Um, it is.

....Oh......thanks.

I guess then I need to reevaluate my stance on Vista then.
Consider me pwned.

[Fadingz]

I got Vista just because I just got a brand new PC.
It's so far doing me all good with zero crash so far, and I don't see any performance issues.
Just that some older drivers are not supported, which is expected for new OS's.
I just don't get why people are so obsess with Vista or so disappointed with Vista.

Regardless,
Get Vista if you are getting a new PC, but don't upgrade the OS just for Vista if you are already on XP that what I'd say.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

you guys wanna use more ram, do this

Tip #3: Disable Paging of the Windows Executive
Step three is recommended for those with more than a gigabyte (1024MB) of system RAM, and this tweak can be applied on Windows XP as well as Windows Vista. Windows Vista tends to manage memory in a kind of silly manner by default. Since Vista has so many memory-intensive services and applications on a default install (as discussed last week), Vista may prioritize those programs for memory usage rather than the core of the Windows operating system, known as the Windows Executive. The Windows Executive may be paged to and from the hard disk quite frequently on a default install of Vista, and this causes a considerable slowdown when using most applications. There’s another registry entry available that makes it possible to keep the Windows Executive in system RAM all the time, and completely prevents it from being paged to the hard disk. The disadvantage is that if you don’t have enough system RAM, this can make applications that aren’t directly related to the operating system behave slower than normal. So I suggest you take this tweak on a case-by-case basis and see whether or not it helps you. As before, you can either download and open this registry entry file or follow these instructions. Open the Registry Editor as described in the second tweak above, and browse to the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \ SYSTEM \ CurrentControlSet \ Control \ Session Manager \ Memory Management. Right click on the value in the right pane titled DisablePagingExecutive and click Modify…. Enter ‘1‘ in the data field and click OK.

it keeps kernel and core files in memory and prevents them from being paged out, allowing for better system performance.

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[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

vista should come slim and unbloated; and then have the options to turn-on the useless stuff if wanted.

Most people are computer stupid. It's better to leave features enabled otherwise the retards will never know they're there....and said features usually benefit the idiots. Those who want the features off know where to find them.

Trust me, I deal with most of these people. Half of them don't know wtf I'm talking about when I say, "open a web browser". I have to say, "click on the blue e"

Originally Posted by Fadingz

I got Vista just because I just got a brand new PC.
It's so far doing me all good with zero crash so far, and I don't see any performance issues.
Just that some older drivers are not supported, which is expected for new OS's.
I just don't get why people are so obsess with Vista or so disappointed with Vista.

Regardless,
Get Vista if you are getting a new PC, but don't upgrade the OS just for Vista if you are already on XP that what I'd say.

Horray! A voice of reason!

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Last edited by Spyhop; July 26th, 2008 at 05:43.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost