Vista: good or bad?

[Squall-Leonhart]

hmm, it might be be caused by using a cross over cable, maybe the routers internal cross over swapping is conflicting with the gigabit nic's cross over....

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[Dennemark]

i say vista is bad cuz i wanna say it cuz its for teh lulz.

no really, for teh lulz.

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[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

hmm, it might be be caused by using a cross over cable, maybe the routers internal cross over swapping is conflicting with the gigabit nic's cross over....

Router should be able to deal with both straight and crossovers.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

That looks to have fixed it.

and microsoft said the latest driver was installed, hmph.

Broadcoms site prooved otherwise.

now to find an updated driver for the nic.... chance of that... not likely.

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[QuantumDelta]

All I can really do is echo Psychodudes post, vista, regardless of the amount of abuse it got, was a better on launch OS than XP, by light years.
And most of the problems people had with vista weren't really MS' fault.

DX10 games is even, a good example of that.
It's not so much that DX10 is bad, it's that the DX10 drivers written by ATi and nV currently suck the donkey.
Admittedly they're getting better and already have improved dramatically but meh.

Vista's a good'un and it's unsung, imo.

[Squall-Leonhart]

XP on launch wasn't that bad at all, the only hardware issues it had was a result of pc's which had little to no ACPI support.

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[Spyhop]

XP's launch was abysmal. There were just fewer choices at that time and people have poor memories. Vista was tested more pre-launch than any other OS.

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[QuantumDelta]

Lets see.

NTFS-FAT32 Backwards compat/homenetworking.
Java support (non-existant).
Tones of BSODs (especially if you had some of the old SB cards).
Massive security holes that could only be described as planetary body abiding in size.
.NET was a _MESS_
DirectX was buggy for a few months (or maybe it was just one, but it really forked a few of my older games for a while).
Integration with Firewalls (most) was terrible for almost half a year.
Inferior to 2000 (heck, still is).
The list goes on.
Although it's a slightly different economic environment now for comparison:
Windows Vista sales outstrip XP launch | 27 Mar 2007 | ComputerWeekly.com

[Squall-Leonhart]

Sales = / = Users

you'll always find that 20% will buy the product but have no desire to actually use it.
They are what you call... odd.

Originally Posted by Spyhop

XP's launch was abysmal. There were just fewer choices at that time and people have poor memories. Vista was tested more pre-launch than any other OS.

Vista wasn't tested at all, Microsoft stopped listening to their testers sometime in the 1800's because they still haven't added anything the testers actually want to a product, rather going on their own god-minded idealogy that they know what people want better then the people do.


Windows Live Messenger wouldn't be the black sheep it is, if developers had've listened... same goes for Vista, .net, windows defender... and alot of other microsoft products where Development has taken its own path, blissfully ignoring what the consumers actually want.

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---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; July 30th, 2008 at 08:07.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[DB7]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

XP on launch wasn't that bad at all, the only hardware issues it had was a result of pc's which had little to no ACPI support.

There was also the problem it had on launch with USB modems, where it would randomly drop your connection for no reason, it took until service pack one for this problem to be sorted.

[S.SubZero]

Originally Posted by QuantumDelta

Lets see.

NTFS-FAT32 Backwards compat/homenetworking.

What?

Java support (non-existant).

MS stopped providing the JavaVM years ago. However, Sun makes a Java thing that works fine.

Tones of BSODs (especially if you had some of the old SB cards).

If you are having BSOD problems make a thread about it. I personally have not seen any blue screen problems on any of the *several* Vista x64 machines I have used over the last 18 months.

Massive security holes that could only be described as planetary body abiding in size.

The general opinion of Vista's security is "better". UAC has been proven in the field to be useful in preventing many kinds of exploits, including rootkits. Stop everything? No. New exploits being made all the time to get around Vista's protections? You bet.

.NET was a _MESS_

Whatever .NET may or not be, developers seem to like it.

DirectX was buggy for a few months (or maybe it was just one, but it really forked a few of my older games for a while).

The oldest game I threw at Vista x64 when it went RTM was Tribes 2, which ran without a hitch. Nothing I threw at it failed to run.

Integration with Firewalls (most) was terrible for almost half a year.

That's not Vista's fault. Just cuz Zonealarm and those guys were slow getting Vista-friendly product out doesn't make Vista the problem.

Inferior to 2000 (heck, still is).

Windows 2000 can't even lock the toolbars. Win2K was good in 2000. I guess if your computer is a relic from those days Win2K would run better on it.

HAY VISTA SUXX ON MY IBM PC AT DOS 3.0 IS SO MUCH BETTER VISTA SUXXXX

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Sub, he was talking about XP release, not Vista.

Originally Posted by DB7

There was also the problem it had on launch with USB modems, where it would randomly drop your connection for no reason, it took until service pack one for this problem to be sorted.

That was never fixed actually, because it was never a problem.

USB modems are just pure crap. sucking 500a from a usb port in most cases, sometimes even that isn't enough, and even then bad phone conditions effect it as well.

The chipset in the usb modem doesn't help either, usually overheating due to the small confines of the case.

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---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; July 30th, 2008 at 15:49.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[psychodude]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

XP on launch wasn't that bad at all, the only hardware issues it had was a result of pc's which had little to no ACPI support.

It wasn't? Let's refresh some memories a bit :P.

Windows locking up on attempting to shutdown at random, unable to playback numerous DVD's, random crashes in various games such as Quake, integrated CD burning utility just totally skipping entire files and folders in the burning process , memory leaks, major functionality issues with a great set of applications, huge amount of driver issues, etc.

And that's just random functionality, not even mentioning the major security issues that it had. Even a 5 year old could practically get into any random system, lol. Vista's security might not be perfect as they showed at various black hat conferences, but much better to just have a black hat able to get in than a script kiddie, lol.

That's really just the tip of the iceberg with what was wrong with XP, not to mention that just as Vista on top of that there were major complaints on it being heavy on the system resources, slow and whatever more as well. Personally I didn't have too much issues with that as I just blame that due to a lack of people keeping their systems up to date, but the rest were really just a lot of especially annoying flaws which resulted in crashes of applications or even windows itself, on top of slowdowns due to memory leaks. Vista has improved on the latter quite a bit even if it still isn't perfect.



As for microsoft not listening to users that much, good thing they don't. The only thing I want them to listen to really is making windows modular, the rest of user suggestions in general are just rubbish. It's rare to come across a user suggestion for windows which makes me think 'damn, windows definitely should take that on board'.

[DB7]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

Sub, he was talking about XP release, not Vista.



That was never fixed actually, because it was never a problem.

USB modems are just pure crap. sucking 500a from a usb port in most cases, sometimes even that isn't enough, and even then bad phone conditions effect it as well.

The chipset in the usb modem doesn't help either, usually overheating due to the small confines of the case.

Regardless of the quality of USB modems it was indeed a problem at the launch of XP, I experienced it myself and couldn't use the internet reliably until SP1 came out.

If you insist on it, am willing to go and try and hunt down links to prove it but I'm feeling quite jolly at the moment and don't want to until pressed =)

[Squall-Leonhart]

Windows locking up on attempting to shutdown at random, unable to playback numerous DVD's, random crashes in various games such as Quake, integrated CD burning utility just totally skipping entire files and folders in the burning process , memory leaks, major functionality issues with a great set of applications, huge amount of driver issues, etc.

1. ACPI
2. Windows doesn't have a codec that can playback protected media, this hasn't changed since release.
3. Quake ran perfectly fine.
4. What sort of crazy person uses the integrated burning feature for anything other then small files and documents
5. Memory leaks were within the drivers included with windows.
6. What do you expect with a new release? i didn't get pissy when Easy CD 4 wouldn't let me shutdown windows without updating to 5.

Originally Posted by DB7

Regardless of the quality of USB modems it was indeed a problem at the launch of XP, I experienced it myself and couldn't use the internet reliably until SP1 came out.

If you insist on it, am willing to go and try and hunt down links to prove it but I'm feeling quite jolly at the moment and don't want to until pressed =)

Oh i have no doubt that you had problems with the Original USB drivers in XP, however they aren't a core part of the operating system and could be replaced with better ones at any time prior to SP1.

Vista had a similar bug with USB2.0 and over 4GB's of ram on Nforce boards only.

just because it only happens with one HW doesn't mean the HW is bad, in this case it was the Vista usb driver.

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---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; July 30th, 2008 at 18:17.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[Glaedrin]

Originally Posted by DB7

Regardless of the quality of USB modems it was indeed a problem at the launch of XP, I experienced it myself and couldn't use the internet reliably until SP1 came out.

If you insist on it, am willing to go and try and hunt down links to prove it but I'm feeling quite jolly at the moment and don't want to until pressed =)

And apparently everyone forgot about the RETARDED HW manufactures that split the USB 1.X standard into more than five different USB types (i.e. USB 1.1 on MSI board is different than USB 1.1 on a Gigabyte board)

BTW it's going to happen again with USB 3.0, and does anyone remember the ridiculous stupidity that was "Vista Capable" Epic Fail!

And just for the added X-Ray vision (for seeing through lies) I will redirect you to this recent article.
Unwanted licences boost Vista numbers - The INQUIRER

Yay Microsoft!

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[runawayprisoner]

Y' all know that Windows Server 2008 can be downloaded for free... and "evaluated" until kingdom come comes, don't you? ;p It's not really piracy or anything. I just... want to let you know that you can get a free OS that works up to 20% faster than Vista on average! And it still has enough functions for a home/desktop OS. And it's legal to use it for about half a year or so. You have a 60-day trial period, which you can renew like... 3 times before you are forced to purchase a license.

And yes, games run on it. It even uses 1/3 less RAM than Vista does!

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Last edited by runawayprisoner; July 30th, 2008 at 22:20..

[psychodude]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

1. ACPI
2. Windows doesn't have a codec that can playback protected media, this hasn't changed since release.
3. Quake ran perfectly fine.
4. What sort of crazy person uses the integrated burning feature for anything other then small files and documents
5. Memory leaks were within the drivers included with windows.
6. What do you expect with a new release? i didn't get pissy when Easy CD 4 wouldn't let me shutdown windows without updating to 5.

2. They fixed it with SP1, it was definitely an issue. It wasn't the codec which was the issue, but rather windows not reading the disc at all. If your OS isn't going to read the disc for you it doesn't matter which codec you try afterwards.

3. Perhaps for you, but for many it did not and it also was part of the SP1 fix.

4. If you're going to include it, make sure it works. It doesn't matter whether it's good to use or not, but it's there, it's using up space so let it at least be useful. And simply put, it wasn't. It was just another waste of space in XP in the early days.

6. I know it's to be expected, what I was trying to point out there was that with the XP release the number of issues there were surrounding drivers and applications not functioning correctly were by far greater than the number during the launch of Vista.


@runawayprisoner: hehe, well usually you can just format and install again. It works with Vista so should work well with server 2k8 as well I bet :P. The server editions are a charm though, it's essentially no different from the mainstream versions but with most of the unneeded stuff taken out.

[runawayprisoner]

Too much hassle. And there are articles all over the place to disable the license forcing thing. Plus Microsoft doesn't do anything about them (some are even from Microsoft employees) so maybe they are really giving Server 2008 out for free.

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[Spyhop]

Here's some of the footage from Microsoft's Mojave experiment:

The "Mojave Experiment"

Reminds me of this thread.

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