Final Fantasy X- 30 fps=15 fps?

[loui100]

Although I don't have a dual core cpu, I manage to run FFX with about 25-30 fps, which by my experience from PC games, should be just enough. Instead, the game runs very slow, the character moves as if he were wading through thick molases. In certain places, where I get about 50 fps, everything moves just fine. So my question is, is the performance-to-fps ratio somewhat diffirent on the emulator or PS2 or is something wrong with my conf/computer or whatnot? I mean in theory anything above 20 does not yield any noticable diffirence because there is a limit to the number of frames we can perceive per second.

[3x3cUt0r]

Is a ps2 game not a pc game so if you cant run the game at full speed (50 fps pal or 60 fps ntsc) the game will run slowly and not "skippy" like on pc games.

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[tuanming]

60 fps is the normal speed from playing it on your real ps2, 30fps is half that speed...

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[-BonzO-]

If you want to recognize PC games behavior, just enable frame skipping in CPU settings. It will be different, but not better.

[shockertwin]

Try and tell that to the users at digg :P, you'll be in a whole in 30 seconds flat.

Basically there is an expected fps, and your not getting it so its slow.

Different applications run at different frames per second. Not everything wants 30 fps, thats just a good number for pc gaming in terms of speed / visual appearance.

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[Fadingz]

An NTSC game has 60fps as 100% speed, a PAL game has 50fps as 100% speed

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[rainbow]

That's 4th or 5th thread about the same thing, in the last two days lol... Anyway if ur rig can't handle FF X on fullspeed stick to ur PS2. Or upgrade PC. There is no other way.

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[Ari]

Way back when, I had more or less the same question:

http://forums.ngemu.com/pcsx2-offici...ing-issue.html

I agree that logic suggests that if my comp is only powerful enough to handle 30 fps, I'll simply lose every other frame, and have an otherwise perfectly playable game. Unfortunately, in practice, this won't happen, at least in this version of pcsx2. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the (perpertually) upcoming version

[ChickenLiver]

PS2 games are written for specific hardware, and all PS2 CPUs are essentially identical in terms of performance, so game authors can expect a consistent frame rate across machines. Therefore frame rate and game speed are generally coupled.

Edit: This explanation could be wrong. The issue could also be that PCSX2 tries to emulate the PS2 in terms of operations per second, so PCSX2 slows down the emulated system's clock to match the number of emulated instructions.

PC games are written for machines with varying specs, so frame rate is expected to vary. Therefore, for PC games, programmers are generally careful to keep the game clock (For physics/movement/etc) and the frame rate independent of each other.

[lightchris]

Originally Posted by ChickenLiver

PS2 games are written for specific hardware, and all PS2 CPUs are essentially identical in terms of performance, so game authors can expect a consistent frame rate across machines. Therefore frame rate and game speed are generally coupled.

Edit: This explanation could be wrong. The issue could also be that PCSX2 tries to emulate the PS2 in terms of operations per second, so PCSX2 slows down the emulated system's clock to match the number of emulated instructions.

The first explanation is correct.

It's disadvantageous for emulation of course, because otherwise games could be really playable at 20-30 fps..

[ChickenLiver]

Thanks, Chris. Was pretty sure my first explanation was correct, but just as I posted, realized I could be barking up the wrong tree.

[tuanming]

From ps2 to pc, it's called backward engineering. For example, taking the alien saucer engine/technology and make it works in our cars.

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[mothball]

Originally Posted by loui100

I mean in theory anything above 20 does not yield any noticable diffirence because there is a limit to the number of frames we can perceive per second.

No. Just no.

[shockertwin]

I actually heard that super high def movies run at 18 FPS. Any lower than 18 and we would start to notice bluring or obvious picture changes.

In actual fact, his number IS correct. ASSUMING the application is expecting 20 frames per second, the human eye could not percieve any difference from if the application was expecting to see 21 frames per second. Once you start going lower than 20 FPS we can start to notice. I think i def movies use this knowledge to thair advantage however.

So Yes, just yes.

I have been reading up a bit and it seems that 24 frames per second is the magic number to which our eyes are designated to see best, with anything after 20 having an unpercievable difference.

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[lightchris]

That "the human eye can't percieve more than 24 fps" is an old myth which just doesn't seem to die out. Read this for an explanation.

[shockertwin]

i dont knwo what he is talking about, cause side by side on two crt's i cannot tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps in any game.

The mind percieves what it wants to. In a side by side comparison, not knowing which is 60 fps and which is 30 fps, i almost guarentee that you would see most people guessing to tell the difference. You would probably be lucky to nab a 60 - 40% in favor of the 60 FPS.

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The bad thing about the internet is anyone can put information online.

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[lightchris]

Originally Posted by shockertwin

i dont knwo what he is talking about, cause side by side on two crt's i cannot tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps in any game.

Well I can.

I hope you read the full article, not just some sections. It's really good explained with a lot of information and facts in it. You can't just go there and say "oh, it might be wrong" without disproving it in detail.

[Rebel_X]

Originally Posted by lightchris

That "the human eye can't percieve more than 24 fps" is an old myth which just doesn't seem to die out. Read this for an explanation.

I read that, that could be true.. from other point of view, I read in a book that human eyes will not consider anything goes below 12fps as Animation (hence you can recognize each frame drawn, and the sequence will suffer stuttering)

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[lightchris]

Originally Posted by Rebel_X

from other point of view, I read in a book that human eyes will not consider anything goes below 12fps as Animation (hence you can recognize each frame drawn, and the sequence will suffer stuttering)

Yep, but recognizing something as an animation is a different question then "how many fps can the human eye perceive". Recognizing it as an animation doesn't mean the animation is flawless.

Here is another source for the sceptics btw. And you'll sure find more if you're interested. Just search the internet.

[Thanakil]

Originally Posted by shockertwin

i dont knwo what he is talking about, cause side by side on two crt's i cannot tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps in any game.

The mind percieves what it wants to. In a side by side comparison, not knowing which is 60 fps and which is 30 fps, i almost guarentee that you would see most people guessing to tell the difference. You would probably be lucky to nab a 60 - 40% in favor of the 60 FPS.

The good thing about the internet is anyone can put information online.
The bad thing about the internet is anyone can put information online.

That's because your eyes arent adapting to the difference between the 30 and the 60 fps.

If you play like 1 hour at 60 fps, then suddenly play a game at 30 fps, you'll definitly see a difference, the same goes if you play 1h at 30 fps and then suddenly play at 60 fps.

The biggest difference comes when turning around in a game tho, even if the FPS stays at 30, suddenly turning around will DEFINITLY show a difference to the eye.

The fastest the action, the easier it is to see if a game is 30 fps or not, if a character stand still in front of moving leaves then yeah, it can be hard to say since nothing is really happening, but playing a fast racing game (like FZERO, where you go at FREAKIN FAST SPEEDS) will be horrible at 30fps. And not because the fps will drop to like 20-25 because of the speed, even if it really stays at 30 ALL THE TIME, a freakin fast game will still be too much for 30fps to be smooth to the eye.

The reason being, the eye can see up to 60 fps, definitly. And while the eye will adapt to 30 fps to try and accomodate to it if you play at that speed for a long time, playing at 60 and then going back to 30 will show a difference.