The future of emulation?

RedLion · July 6th, 2006, 17:41

Hello all!I was wondering about the future of emulation; I talk about next-gen consoles.Do you really think the emulation for PS3,Xbox360,or Wii, will be possible???i read somewhere that the cell processor was so powerful that it could even emulate the Pc environment with a lot of ease! And for the wii if someone success to emulate it how to find a PC device to emulate his fabulous controller?and like the complexity and number of devices in console are growing (hard drives for example) how many people will be necessary to built an emulator?Do you think the fabulous world of emulation have reach its maximum capacity?want to know your point of view.thanks.

Dogmaan · July 6th, 2006, 21:49

Theoretically emulating the PowerPC cores of the three consoles (slowly) should be relatively simple, because of the ground work put in by pearpc and the various gamecube emulators out there.

The main problem is emulating the extra instructions in the PPC core(s), the 360 probably has a weird form of Altivec, also according to the avalaunch team it has some x86 opcodes for backwards compatibility, then you have the infineon security chip to emulate and the SIS chipset, oh and dont forget the unified shaders.

The ps3's main problem will be the cells and the extra powerpc instructions also the Ps3 has Rambus memory running at stupid speeds our pc's can only dream of.

Oh and even if you managed to do all that you would need a couple of crayXMP's to run it

anyone like to add some more?

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KanedA · July 6th, 2006, 21:52

yeah it's quite possible, years ago ppl. were saying like that about PS2 and look ! its emulation gets better and better

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**Cid Highwind** · July 6th, 2006, 22:36

But this time the architechtures are pretty uncommon. A triple core CPU and the almighty Cell Processor with its 7 spe's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sure attempts will be made and it might be possible, but not on x86, it all depends on future PC developments.

What's more interesting is how the emulation scene will be for those consoles, like we have seen with the Dreamcast and Xbox, and recently on the PSP. IMO thát is the future of emulation. At least from a gamer's pov, and not from a coder (who will always look for the challenge)

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FrostyTheSnowman · July 6th, 2006, 22:41

As long as we have coders that are determined enough to give up ANY form of personal life, we will have emulation. Regardless of hardware changes, OS changes, or how impossible it may seem.

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**ShendoXT** · July 6th, 2006, 22:46

Maybe the future of emulation is to emulate things on those consoles...

Dogmaan · July 7th, 2006, 02:59

Quote:

Sure attempts will be made and it might be possible, but not on x86, it all depends on future PC developments.

With multicore processors set to have 16+ cores in the future, and hopefully some languages and compilers that compliment multicore architecture, maybe we will even see progress quicker this time round.

But then you would still have the problem of the absurdley fast cache and RAM speeds of the next gen consoles (something i believe is one of the main problems of ps2 emulation as well).

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KanedA · July 7th, 2006, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendo

Maybe the future of emulation is to emulate things on those consoles...

hmmm... coders already do that on PS2 PSP and even X-box

so that's nothing new

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Samor · July 7th, 2006, 10:24

not new no, but the emulation of classics on new consoles seems to be rather popular atm.

ChankastRules · July 7th, 2006, 10:51

I'm waiting for the time we can emulate a girfriend, that'd would be great. No more important days to remember, or gifts to buy wow. Of course it's important that we can also emulate realistic skin... boobies and...

ehhr... well I think it'll take a long time until any of the next-gen consoles will be emulated. But IBM is talking about cell-based PC's, if we get that.. the NVIDIA card is really not that special... so PS3 could be possible if PC's go that path. Xbox 360... well we're going towards more and more cores in PC's not impossible either. As for the wii.... well it all depends on if we get a motion sensetive controller for the PC that can in anyway substitute it's controller. In other words it's too early to tell.

Dogmaan · July 7th, 2006, 11:31

Quote:

well it all depends on if we get a motion sensetive controller for the PC that can in anyway substitute it's controller. In other words it's too early to tell.

using the right adaptor and software we can use ps2 controllers on our pc's, there is nothing to stop us doing the same with the wii controller (hopefully)

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KanedA · July 7th, 2006, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChankastRules

I'm waiting for the time we can emulate a girfriend, that'd would be great. No more important days to remember, or gifts to buy wow. Of course it's important that we can also emulate realistic skin... boobies and...

dude, and where would you stick your... not tonque

in?

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Dogmaan · July 7th, 2006, 13:30

Quote:

dude, and where would you stick your... not tonque in?

unfortunately we dont have the technology

you could do it manually with the nintendo powerglove for the time being

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Last edited by Dogmaan; July 7th, 2006 at 14:46..

**Cid Highwind** · July 7th, 2006, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KanedA

hmmm... coders already do that on PS2 PSP and even X-box

so that's nothing new

Without being sarcastic, what can the PS2 offer? I know it has Snes emulation, but last time I heard about it it wasn't as good, or at least not better than Dreamsnes. Any other interesting projects?

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FrostyTheSnowman · July 7th, 2006, 15:39

Emulation on the XBOX has both of them beaten by leaps and bounds. You should just see how good ANY SNES game looks on a Widescreen HDTV running at 480p using Super 2xSai filtering. Not to mention that MOST N64 games work perfectly on the XBOX. 4 player Mario Kart 64/GoldenEye feels just like it did on the real system, aside from the difference in controls. Although, I prefer the XBOX controller over the N64 controller anyway.

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Silenus · July 7th, 2006, 15:48

I even have a nes emulator in my cellphone

And there are snes, gb and gba emulators too.

Emulation is dedication!!!

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Dogmaan · July 7th, 2006, 15:53

As the PPC cores of the 3 systems are fairly similiar porting homebrew between the next gen systems (once the security has been bypassed) should theoretically be a lot easier as they will all use PPC binarys

Maybe they could even share the same source tree?

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Samor · July 7th, 2006, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrostyTheSnowman

Emulation on the XBOX has both of them beaten by leaps and bounds. You should just see how good ANY SNES game looks on a Widescreen HDTV running at 480p using Super 2xSai filtering. Not to mention that MOST N64 games work perfectly on the XBOX. 4 player Mario Kart 64/GoldenEye feels just like it did on the real system, aside from the difference in controls. Although, I prefer the XBOX controller over the N64 controller anyway.

sure, xbox is powerful enough for the more advanced emulators, but the DC doesn't need any modification for running homebrew.... and that scene is still pretty much alive and kicking too....

FrostyTheSnowman · July 7th, 2006, 17:06

Meh, I owned a DC, and at one point I was very much a part of DCEmu.co.uk, and it does have some significant traits as far as homebrew goes. But I lost interest when the system was announced officially dead, and the homebrew scene was unable to progress past SNES emulation. (And even that didn't emulate very well.)

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Dogmaan · July 7th, 2006, 17:13

Quote:

sure, xbox is powerful enough for the more advanced emulators, but the DC doesn't need any modification for running homebrew.... and that scene is still pretty much alive and kicking too....

I love the Dreamcast and its homebrew scene, but it has slowed down a lot in the past couple of years.

homebrew coders want another more powerful system to get there teeth into this is why there is such an effort to run unsigned code on the XB360 at the moment even though you can already run copied games.

If the PS3 supports Linux as promised, then hopefully the homebrew scene will explode on that console, its also an unusual architecture that a lot of programmers and techies would like to sink their teeth into.

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July 6th, 2006, 17:41	#1
RedLion Molded to be a winner. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: CyberSpace Posts: 3,084	The future of emulation? Hello all!I was wondering about the future of emulation; I talk about next-gen consoles.Do you really think the emulation for PS3,Xbox360,or Wii, will be possible???i read somewhere that the cell processor was so powerful that it could even emulate the Pc environment with a lot of ease! And for the wii if someone success to emulate it how to find a PC device to emulate his fabulous controller?and like the complexity and number of devices in console are growing (hard drives for example) how many people will be necessary to built an emulator?Do you think the fabulous world of emulation have reach its maximum capacity?want to know your point of view.thanks.

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July 6th, 2006, 21:49	#2
Dogmaan Terminal Dogma Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Posts: 256	Theoretically emulating the PowerPC cores of the three consoles (slowly) should be relatively simple, because of the ground work put in by pearpc and the various gamecube emulators out there. The main problem is emulating the extra instructions in the PPC core(s), the 360 probably has a weird form of Altivec, also according to the avalaunch team it has some x86 opcodes for backwards compatibility, then you have the infineon security chip to emulate and the SIS chipset, oh and dont forget the unified shaders. The ps3's main problem will be the cells and the extra powerpc instructions also the Ps3 has Rambus memory running at stupid speeds our pc's can only dream of. Oh and even if you managed to do all that you would need a couple of crayXMP's to run it anyone like to add some more? __________________ Hmm pc = ASrock 939 dual sata 2 mobo , Athlon 3700+ 2.2@2.4, 1024mb Corsair DDR nvidia geforce 7800GTX 256mb

July 6th, 2006, 21:52	#3
KanedA PS2 PAL[v9], PS3Slim PAL Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: PolanD Posts: 5,362	yeah it's quite possible, years ago ppl. were saying like that about PS2 and look ! its emulation gets better and better __________________

July 6th, 2006, 22:36	#4
Cid Highwind The Hunter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NL Posts: 15,877	But this time the architechtures are pretty uncommon. A triple core CPU and the almighty Cell Processor with its 7 spe's. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Sure attempts will be made and it might be possible, but not on x86, it all depends on future PC developments. What's more interesting is how the emulation scene will be for those consoles, like we have seen with the Dreamcast and Xbox, and recently on the PSP. IMO thát is the future of emulation. At least from a gamer's pov, and not from a coder (who will always look for the challenge) __________________ PC Specs: CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz // GPU: Sapphire ATi HD5870 1GB // Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 RAM: 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 // HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint // SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W // Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 19201200 Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!*

July 6th, 2006, 22:41	#5
FrostyTheSnowman XBOX Modder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 659	As long as we have coders that are determined enough to give up ANY form of personal life, we will have emulation. Regardless of hardware changes, OS changes, or how impossible it may seem. __________________ Full VGA Support For Modchips! (VGA Patcher v0.6-v0.8 Development Thread) FrostyTheSnowman's VGA Patcher v0.8 & Evox M8+ VGA Patcher Frosty's v1.0 5101 Retail BIOS FrostyTheSnowman's XBOX Gallery (Pictures of my XBOXes)

July 6th, 2006, 22:46	#6
ShendoXT Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 4,550	Maybe the future of emulation is to emulate things on those consoles... __________________ Shendo's software blog Core i5 2400 3.1 Ghz \| ASRock H67M \| GTX460 768Mb \| 8GB DDR3 1333 \| 1500 Gb HDD Grundig VLC 7121 C (1080p) 32" \| Razer DeathAdder \| Logitech G110 \| Windows 7 x64 Don't PM or ask me about VMP-MCR conversions. I will ignore you if you do.

July 7th, 2006, 10:24	#9
Samor crill stazy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NL Posts: 7,609	not new no, but the emulation of classics on new consoles seems to be rather popular atm.

July 7th, 2006, 10:51	#10
ChankastRules NextGenerationGaymulation Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sweden ( Proud Game Developer ) Posts: 2,775	I'm waiting for the time we can emulate a girfriend, that'd would be great. No more important days to remember, or gifts to buy wow. Of course it's important that we can also emulate realistic skin... boobies and... ehhr... well I think it'll take a long time until any of the next-gen consoles will be emulated. But IBM is talking about cell-based PC's, if we get that.. the NVIDIA card is really not that special... so PS3 could be possible if PC's go that path. Xbox 360... well we're going towards more and more cores in PC's not impossible either. As for the wii.... well it all depends on if we get a motion sensetive controller for the PC that can in anyway substitute it's controller. In other words it's too early to tell.

July 7th, 2006, 15:39	#15
FrostyTheSnowman XBOX Modder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 659	Emulation on the XBOX has both of them beaten by leaps and bounds. You should just see how good ANY SNES game looks on a Widescreen HDTV running at 480p using Super 2xSai filtering. Not to mention that MOST N64 games work perfectly on the XBOX. 4 player Mario Kart 64/GoldenEye feels just like it did on the real system, aside from the difference in controls. Although, I prefer the XBOX controller over the N64 controller anyway. __________________ Full VGA Support For Modchips! (VGA Patcher v0.6-v0.8 Development Thread) FrostyTheSnowman's VGA Patcher v0.8 & Evox M8+ VGA Patcher Frosty's v1.0 5101 Retail BIOS FrostyTheSnowman's XBOX Gallery (Pictures of my XBOXes)

July 7th, 2006, 15:48	#16
Silenus Pilgrim Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Hyperion Posts: 6,897	I even have a nes emulator in my cellphone And there are snes, gb and gba emulators too. Emulation is dedication!!! __________________ DELL XPS 13 ULTRABOOK ...Mis sueños son mentiras que algun día dejarán de serlo...

July 7th, 2006, 15:53	#17
Dogmaan Terminal Dogma Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Posts: 256	As the PPC cores of the 3 systems are fairly similiar porting homebrew between the next gen systems (once the security has been bypassed) should theoretically be a lot easier as they will all use PPC binarys Maybe they could even share the same source tree? __________________ Hmm pc = ASrock 939 dual sata 2 mobo , Athlon 3700+ 2.2@2.4, 1024mb Corsair DDR nvidia geforce 7800GTX 256mb

July 7th, 2006, 17:06	#19
FrostyTheSnowman XBOX Modder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 659	Meh, I owned a DC, and at one point I was very much a part of DCEmu.co.uk, and it does have some significant traits as far as homebrew goes. But I lost interest when the system was announced officially dead, and the homebrew scene was unable to progress past SNES emulation. (And even that didn't emulate very well.) __________________ Full VGA Support For Modchips! (VGA Patcher v0.6-v0.8 Development Thread) FrostyTheSnowman's VGA Patcher v0.8 & Evox M8+ VGA Patcher Frosty's v1.0 5101 Retail BIOS FrostyTheSnowman's XBOX Gallery (Pictures of my XBOXes)