Nothing matters any more

[cloudvii]

Not many of you know that I'm studying civil engineering . More little
know that I have 3 semesters every year in my college . When all ppl
just enjoy their summer vacations , I'm kept stucked in that not so
good prison , studying stuff I hate . This semester I was having a
training course (that's what summer semester is made for here) and
I had to go every week from Sunday to Wednesday for the training
site . And as if that wasn't enough , I had extra 2 subjects to study
too (that's optional but I choose to finish these) , so I had to go
every Saturday and Thursday . That leaves only Friday for my weekend .
Anyway , I was doing my best this semester but unfortunatly things
didn't go as I expected . The training started at the 20th of May ,
and guess what ? I finished the second semester at the first days of
May too . In the training course I have 11 lessons and when I finish
one of them I have to pass a test covering the lesson . Things weren't
so bad , I got 45/50 or better each time except one lesson where I've
got 44/50 , And my year work in the 2 subjects was great , one of them
was : 51/60 , but the other wasn't so great : 38/60 . I just had 3
lessons more to take and there I was making my test , when in the
middle of the exam some ppl were cheating , and I'm not really against
this , I even helped one of my friends . During the exam , the
supervisor found that guy I was helped copying from his copybook ,
she marked his paper and said she will give him a bad mark . After
that I asked her about a question I wasn't sure of , I asked her if
that answer was totally correct as I felt I'm missing something .
She just said something like "Excellent , you made perfect answers" .
I replied : "Hey , I still have one more question to answer" . Then
she told me : "It's ok , I was going to choose the best answers and
leave out 1 question for every one of you , and you already have good
answers" . She took the paper , and I left . The grades showed , and
I got 41/50 !! And what do you think the other guy who was caught
cheating got ? 48/50 !!!! I took my paper and searched for the
supervisor and I found her , I asked her about my marks . She just
said that I have terrible answers and that I left 1 whole question !!
I told her that she's the one who told me to leave the paper not me .
Anyway she didn't change the grade , and I was just pretty mad . But
I didn't show that to her . The rest of the lessons was good anyway .
The final exams were made quickly , and I had very bad luck in the
Fluid Mecahnics one (the one with 51/60) , Something happened inside
the exam , I just couldn't think about it , I just remember I saw
these questions , but I couldn't just remember the answer . I was sad
but that was just bad luck , I mean I was just explaining these
lessons to my friends , I attended all the days and i made pretty good
in the midterms , I thought It's my duty to help them as they were
my friends , and I'm not soory for that even after what happened .
Today , I had my last exam , which was an oral exam about the training
course and all the 11 lessons . We supposed to deliver 2 reports one
after we finish every lesson and a final one which we give to the
proffesor who will test us while he is asking us . First of all I made
reports to many ppl so say the least , and even I made the final
report for some of them . Anyway , I entered the last exam and there
was three profesors inside , and I can't believe it the same bad luck
chased me again , but this time in a different way . The main
Professor asked us (the four students next to him) some questions .
Every one of them had about 4 questions maximum , and I got 9
questions , I couldn't answer 2 of them while others couldn't answer
from 2 to 3 questions . Btw there was one of the questions were no one
could answer it except me . Anyway , I was sad I couldn't answer the
2 questions . So after the exam I went to the control room , and I
checked if the Fluid mechanics grades came out , and it was . I got
C , again I was sad . After that I heard that the professor of that
oral exam will say the grades after he finishes all the exams , so I
kept waiting with some of my friends . After the professors finished
we got our grades . And I got B , I was shocked really and my friends
whom I helped during the training course and the others whom I gave
my reports have gotten B+ and A . You just don't know how I felt .
I was in arush trying to find that professor to ask him : Why ? When
I found him , he just smiled and torn my ears (That's his stupid way
for joking) , then he asked: "what did u get ?" . I told him I've got
a "B" . He smiled and he said that it's just enough for me . I told
him it's not enough , but he was already left without even caring for
my words . I was really in a bad mood and was ready to kill him really
, that guy didn't even let me say my name , so how can he know that
the "B" was enough for me ? I looked around to see happiness around me
, and i recalled memories of me waking up early every day to attend
the lessons while others just came pretty late and took their
attendance grades . I remembered when I was helping them and how I
just got lower marks . I just don't know how that happened ?
We were expecting 2 of our friends to fail , but they got B+ instead .
I wish I didn't attend nor study this whole time . I feel sad , angry
and jealous as well . I saw great acting from ppl saying : "Don't be
sad Cloud" , while they were happy they got rid of the competition .
That's the sadest day I ever had at my college . I'm not asking for
sympathy . I just feel better when writing my feelings .
Thank you for reading . And sorry for writing too much .

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[Bill_gates]

in the end you will make a better civil engineer than the people around you that don't work hard and only manage to pass cause they lucked out with a stupid teacher. Don't lose hope

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[Cid Highwind]

I feel like kicking that last professor in his nuts.......

Don't worry about the length of your story, but maybe you can make it more readable by cutting it into paragraphs


I know what it's like to be screwed by your own teachers....
Last year 1 out of 4 ppl wasn't allowed to advance to the next year! Which is extremely high for second highest secondary education level in Holland (Atheneum for Dutch ppl) And still they were blaming the students!!

Also I have the experience from two years ago. Halfway that year, I had quite bad marks and if that wouldn't change I wouldn't pass that year. So I studied and at the end of the year I was sure to advance. But that dirty teacher of the German language... Didn't gave the class a dictionary during a test, though it was our right to have one, he even said that at the previous test and the one before that.

But when I got back that test, I had a 5.1 out of 10. While I needed 5.5. Now my average was below 5.5, which meant that after that year, teachers had to discuss my progression. I was so angry at that guy, and still haven't forgiven him. He just send us away like we were some dogs, no discussion was possible....

Ever since that moment I've changed. I know my rights now, and won't let things like that happen again. Though we're still getting screwed alot... But we can't do a thing, since we're only students, and the teachers have 'the right of the strongest'....
They all cover their fellow teachers. Therefor I only have respect for few of them... And it's a good thing I can act like I like them, otherwise not even one teacher would respect me, if I showed my true feelings.

It's a shame you have wasted that much time Cloud...

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[Marbles]

Teachers can be very strange ducks.

Some will favour brighter students because they see great potential. Others will favour less gifted students because they either want to encourage them, or they are envious of the brighter ones.

Some times it even matters where in the grading procedure your paper gets graded. Say the teacher has 150 papers to grade, well early on they have no expectations, so the grading is pretty fair. Say 20 papers in they start to get PO'd about some of the answers they are seeing and start to grade harder. But by paper 80 they are so tired of the whole job, they just don't care and start to hand out really easy marks.

Of course all this doesn't even take in to consideration all the "social" aspects. Are either of your friends charming and/or good looking? The teachers may remember them in a more positive light then you if they've been "sucking up" a bit. As well, it's been shown in studies that good looking people on the whole get better treatment then less attractive ones. The same goes for more dynamic people compared to quieter ones.
As well, all the above "social" reasons can be why one oral presentation will do better then another even if it's content isn't as good.

And trying to get a teacher to admit they've made a mistake, don't even bother. They'll just see it as whining. Often you not only have to prove you've been mistreated, but you need to do it to a unbiased 3rd party. Teachers can often have a bit of a "god" complex, in their eyes they're never wrong, so getting them to admit they've made a mistake is really difficult.

Over all, yes it sucks. That's why I learnt pretty quick (even though it's against my nature) not to help others too much when in direct or indirect competition. It' just not worth it in the long run. Call me callous but I've just found it less frustrating is all.

P.s. Remember the old saying "Those that can do, those that can't teach". A lot of teachers can't cut it in the real world, so many get envious about some one who obviously will succeed. They live in their petty little "kingdoms" and make some people's lives hell just because they can.

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---

Last edited by Marbles; August 7th, 2004 at 18:33.. Reason: additional thoughts.

[cloudvii]

Well the problem didn't start here really , My parents both are civil engineers , my father is a professor too at another famous university (The best here in my country) , my mother got a job and didn't teach (now she is checking some contracts for some universities , ie she would teach too)
They wanted me to enter that famous university , but I didn't , when i entered my college they wanted me to enter civil engineering branch , and i did , they still want me to do 2 things :
1) To enter the same branch as my father , at my last year (Environmental civil engineering)
2) To become the best student so I become a professor too . And I'm afraid that this is very hard now .

I just can't do it , I hate my study , I just focus on more other things trying to escape this . Playing games and stuff . As I already said in an older thread , I'm afraid that one day I'll stop to ask my self : "What have I done ? I can't bear this job anymore" . But ofcourse blaming myself won't be the solution .

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[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by Marbles

Teachers can be very strange ducks.

And trying to get a teacher to admit they've made a mistake, don't even bother. They'll just see it as whining. Often you not only have to prove you've been mistreated, but you need to do it to a unbiased 3rd party. Teachers can often have a bit of a "god" complex, in their eyes they're never wrong, so getting them to admit they've made a mistake is really difficult.

They're more like stubborn donkeys or goats if you'd ask me

Anyway there are 2 golden rules for teachers:

1. The teacher is always right.

2. When the teachers isn't right, rule one will be applied.


I'm the kind of person that accepts a mistake easily, and won't get angry, but if someone doesn't make a mistake, though you can prove it. I can get really angry. I just can't stand being mistreated like that. We're both adults, let's treat each other like that.

It's a good thing that our official exams will be looked over by teachers from other schools.

Though I still wonder how I passed my French examn last year. I still think that that nice teacher is behind that She's one of the teachers I respect. But on the other hand, the other French teacher we had in previous years screwed us big time, so I guess we deserved this kind of 'luck'

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[permethium]

sounds a bit like what happens to me most of the time... I can relate to this in the sense of bad luck striking all the time. like the time me and a friend of mine enrolled for the A+ support technician course at the same time but I knew way more than him about pc hardware at the time. so at the end of the course we wrote a internal exam before going on to the international ones. When the time came where i had to put my pen to paper, i just completely frose(mentaly). the results came and he scored high in the 80's where i could only get 72%. I was so de-motivated, that i just left my studies
there. He went on and wrote the international exams and he did the MCSE course too.
Now he earns about three times my salary....That's life for you.
Don't make the same misake tho. Keep on working hard and carry on with what you do - Some or other time good luck and fortune will smile on you

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[Marbles]

Originally Posted by cloudvii

Well the problem didn't start here really , My parents both are civil engineers , my father is a professor too at another famous university (The best here in my country) , my mother got a job and didn't teach (now she is checking some contracts for some universities , ie she would teach too)
They wanted me to enter that famous university , but I didn't , when i entered my college they wanted me to enter civil engineering branch , and i did , they still want me to do 2 things :
1) To enter the same branch as my father , at my last year (Environmental civil engineering)
2) To become the best student so I become a professor too . And I'm afraid that this is very hard now .

I just can't do it , I hate my study , I just focus on more other things trying to escape this . Playing games and stuff . As I already said in an older thread , I'm afraid that one day I'll stop to ask my self : "What have I done ? I can't bear this job anymore" . But ofcourse blaming myself won't be the solution .

I think you've answered your first post right there. Are you taking the classes because you want to or feel you have to? Would the fact that your father is an esteemed prof maybe be a reason for you being graded harder either because the teachers expect you to do better, or they envy your dad?
Or maybe because they know you don't study and they aren't going to hand things to you just because your smarter.

I used to be able to get A-B's in high school without even studying or doing home work. In fact all I had to do was pay attention. If I didn't I'd still get Cs. This was till I had this one teacher. He kept giving me D's no matter how hard I tried. I was getting so mad, I wanted to punch him out.
Well one day I wrote a test and got around 45-50% on it, and I knew I'd done better then that, so I waited around after class to confront him.
I was all most in tears, as I told him off.
All he did was look at me calmly till I was done, and then say "Your gifted, and you throw it away out of laziness. A lot of students kill themselves to get a C+/B and you get A's without even trying. That's not learning, it's showing off, and I don't want it in my class."
Well he was right, but instead of listening, I just got a transfer out of his class, and skated my way to graduation. I now wish I'd tried a bit harder.

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[Grv]

Originally Posted by cloudvii

I just can't do it , I hate my study , I just focus on more other things trying to escape this . Playing games and stuff . As I already said in an older thread , I'm afraid that one day I'll stop to ask my self : "What have I done ? I can't bear this job anymore" . But ofcourse blaming myself won't be the solution .

If your parents know about your predicament and care, you can't really blame them either, let alone anyone else. How much freedom are your parents willing to give you? Do you even know? Have you ever tried a lengthy conversation? It might not always end up pretty if your parents are strict, but it might be better than what you're pouting against now.

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

I know my rights now, and won't let things like that happen again.

Amen. It's imperative to shout out that what is/was injust. If you try hard enough and/or know how to gain the right support, rectification can be made. This requires a great deal of commitment of the teachers, sometimes, making some of them unwilling to coöperate in the rectification of their mistake. Marbles' point about teachers thinking they're god is a dying breed that isn't that common anymore in the western countries afaik. This might be different in Egypt, I wouldn't know. There's also a point of age. In my experience, the more mature you are and behave, the more respect you get from most teachers. This often makes them listen to you more carefully, and treat you more carefully as a more mature person is often more knowledgable in the field of his own rights, in their experience.

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

But we can't do a thing, since we're only students, and the teachers have 'the right of the strongest'....

In dutch secondary schools, there ought to be an appointed council of students that can bring such matters to order if you can't yourself, though. You don't believe those golden rules in your other post yourself, do you?

Anyway Cid, atheneum? Mind me asking a little question for comparison? What are the actual differences on your school between Atheneum and Gymnasium, other than Latin and Greek?



@Permethium: Ouch. Was that Comptia A+ or from another organization? Aries?

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[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by klatch

Amen. It's imperative to shout out that what is/was injust. If you try hard enough and/or know how to gain the right support, rectification can be made. This requires a great deal of commitment of the teachers, sometimes, making some of them unwilling to coöperate in the rectification of their mistake. Marbles' point about teachers thinking they're god is a dying breed that isn't that common anymore in the western countries afaik. This might be different in Egypt, I wouldn't know. There's also a point of age. In my experience, the more mature you are and behave, the more respect you get from most teachers. This often makes them listen to you more carefully, and treat you more carefully as a more mature person is often more knowledgable in the field of his own rights, in their experience.


In dutch secondary schools, there ought to be an appointed council of students that can bring such matters to order if you can't yourself, though. You don't believe those golden rules in your other post yourself, do you?

Anyway Cid, atheneum? Mind me asking a little question for comparison? What are the actual differences on your school between Atheneum and Gymnasium, other than Latin and Greek?

My experience is that most of the older ones, 50+ teachers, are more likely to apply those two golden rules than younger ones...

And yes, I do believe in those rules. Normally we should go to our mentor, who will guide you when you have problems in school. But almost two years ago, almost our whole class had problems with our teacher French (here we go again ) She didn't do a thing to help us, she never taught us one thing. She only us to shut up and read (It was a 'Frans 1' class, so we only had to read). We complained a lot at our mentor and the head of our department. But nothing helped. The head simply said: Bad luck. Because everyone knew she would leave the school at the end of the year, so they didn't care about our low marks....

About your question: I don't know, cause we don't have Gymnasium at our school. Otherwise, when at primary school, they told me there wasn't any difference besides the ones you mentioned.

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[permethium]

Was that Comptia A+ or from another organization? Aries?

We had the comptia sylabus (well, I still have them) I never went for the international exams. did the A+ in 97 and the MCSE in 98. I started with something else in the meantime tho - programming (visual basic6), but i'm sooo behind in my studies hehe, just don't seem to get the time (but i hafta get serious, or i'll be stuck in my dead-end office job forever .

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[cloudvii]

>>>Would the fact that your father is an esteemed prof maybe be a reason for you being graded harder either because the teachers expect you to do better, or they envy your dad?

My professors don't know about the identity about my parents , I don't like to say who are my parents because of some reasons like :
1) May be I'll just get easy "A"s because they know my father .
2) It'll be like showing off "Hey , btw my father is ur friend , remember my name is ... , so yes i'm his only boy " . I can't just do this crap .

>>>How much freedom are your parents willing to give you? Do you even know? Have you ever tried a lengthy conversation?

Well , I tried that conversations things alot of times in various things . They just have their own believe in the "study rules" phrase . They just think they are right in many things , but I'm not ready to burst all my life problems in one burst .

Well thanks guys , I feel I'm better anyway , I was just in a bad mood when i posted this thread

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[Grv]

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

About your question: I don't know, cause we don't have Gymnasium at our school. Otherwise, when at primary school, they told me there wasn't any difference besides the ones you mentioned.

The difference between these 2 differs from school to school of those that offer both. Mine had that difference, plus another class to follow, and in quite some classes, (of which Maths the most notable) we received a good amount of extra assignments and subjects as an addition to what our Atheneum friends received.

In overall, the difference started real small on my old school, and became larger as you came closer to final exams. We also received more options (=optionally more classes to follow). But that was my school. There are schools who really only do what you have been told.

Originally Posted by permethium

We had the comptia sylabus (well, I still have them) I never went for the international exams. did the A+ in 97 and the MCSE in 98.

I see. I did those 4 years later than you + Cisco crap. And I'm into programming now too (+ web development)

Originally Posted by cloudvii

They just think they are right in many things , but I'm not ready to burst all my life problems in one burst .

When you feel you're really stuck in a dead-end, you really should. Don't hesitate if you really feel unhappy with your parents' choice. It isn't going to get any better if you shove problems aside.

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