I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors)

Captain N. · July 17th, 2003, 07:42

This is a suggestion that I've made for Pete and his wonderful PSX graphics plugins before. But I haven't made the request in a while so I figured I'd try again ;-). (btw, anyother gpu author willing to implement such an idea is welcome too :-))

I think it would be cool if in addition to the current openGL setting "Keep PSX aspect ratio", there was an option called something like "Keep PSX display res" or "Keep [some multiple (2x, 3x , etc.)] of PSX display res".

What it would do is, display an odd psx resolution (such as the long resolutions found in Crash Bandicoot or Dragon Ball GT Final Bout or the menu in Chrono Cross) at its original res or a multiple of it, and then stretch it to fill the screen. And you could set it to be a multiple of the original resolution so that you could still get higher resolution game play. This could be user configurable, in some sort of a list - list psx res, and the amount is would scale to - or it would be based on some algorithm - if 2x this psx res fits, test 3x, up until one doesn't fit, use the last one that did, if none fit, use standard "Keep psx aspect ratio" that is currently used or crop - or something.

This way, you get the benefits of "keep psx aspect ratio" and the added benefits that this technique would bring, such as better looking menus in Chrono Cross - it would make the text appear as crisp as it does on the tv (especially the diagonal lines in the text). It would get rid of that window blinds effect in squaresoft games with tiled backdrops, that you get when playing without "Keep psx aspect ratio" at lower resolutions. You also get to the play the game in full screen, without borders.

I don't know about the technical aspects of programming this, but it would make sense that certain things would be easier to implement, and certain problems would be easier to fix (or maybe just different) such as the spaces between textures in games like the FF games or Chrono Cross that used to be such a problem. It might have been easier to fix if the game was being rendered at a multiple of the original resolution, because you would just have to multiply the position of everything by 2.*

I have heard in the past that there is no way to render in D3D (don't know about opengl) without taking up the whole screen. That seems to have changed in D3D 8 and 9. A hobby programming language seems to do this by default (example - It streches to full screen, or whatever the window is stretched to - Direct X 8 based).

What do you think?

* If any of this is not correct, please let me know, I don't really know the specifics of programming a psx gpu plugin, I'm mostly just figuring based on my limitted knowledge of general programming and what I've read about emu programming

Captain N. · July 17th, 2003, 08:09

I have attacthed these two images.

The first is the menu rendered in software to its original size then stretched to fill the screen.

The second is the menu rendered at a resolution that is not the same as the original (and is not a multiple of the original).

See how much some of the textures get mangled? I'm thinking that if the hardware accelerated version was to render at the original resolution (or a multiple of it) it wouldn't get so chewy looking.

Attached Images

	sw.jpg (51.4 KB, 159 views)
	hw.jpg (64.5 KB, 155 views)

Captain N. · July 17th, 2003, 08:14

BTW these where the settings of pete's openGL plugin when I took the shot. Nothing will make the text cleaner except running it in a window the size of the original resolution of that menu (I haven't actually tested that, since I don't know the original resolution of that menu).

-------------------------------------------------------

Plugin: Pete's OpenGL Driver 1.1.72
Author: Pete Bernert
Card vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
GFX card: GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!

Resolution/Color:
- 640x480 Window mode
[32 Bit]- Keep psx aspect ratio: off

Textures:
- R8G8B8A8
- Filtering: 4
- Hi-Res textures: 0
- VRam size: 128 MBytes

Framerate:
- FPS limitation: on
- Frame skipping: off
- FPS limit: Auto

Compatibility:
- Offscreen drawing: 3
- Framebuffer texture: 3
- Framebuffer access: 1
- Alpha multipass: on
- Mask bit: on
- Advanced blending: on

Misc:
- Scanlines: off
- Line mode: off
- Unfiltered FB: off
- 15 bit FB: off
- Dithering: off
- Screen smoothing: off
- Screen cushion: off
- Game fixes: on [00001000]

**Pete Bernert** · July 18th, 2003, 19:22

oh, I have plans for a new OpenGL psx plugin, which is offering something like that (along with other interesting features). Anyway, it will need a kinda powerful gfx card and system (well, prolly a GF3 or Radeon 9500 will be able to do most stuff).

But currently it's summer time, and I don't spend much of my free time with coding, so don't hold your breath for it

**I-Chan** · July 19th, 2003, 01:52

Is that so?? That's great news!! I'm holding my breath already XD No, seriously, sounds great, and as i have a 9500, even better

. Enjoy the summer Pete!

__________________
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Captain N. · July 19th, 2003, 05:09

Cool! Thanks for the reply. I will not hold my breath, the emulation community has made me very patient

Besides I will not be able to upgrade my vid card for some time (just did the cpu and mobo).

Thanks again.

F-3582 · July 19th, 2003, 13:57

So I guess that I'll have to get a new gfx card (along with a new CPU, MoBo, RAM...)

__________________

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Valcrist · July 22nd, 2003, 22:14

I just got a Radeon 9500....so I'm happy

takwu · July 30th, 2003, 08:58

not exactly sure what you mean
but it'd be nice if i can have a 960x720 image on a 1024x768 display mode (there is no 960x720 mode). so that the sprites don't get messed up (for 320x240 games) and the 3d stuff can have a better resolution. currently i just use 640x480 instead.

__________________
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Captain N. · August 10th, 2003, 06:56

Quote:

don't hold your breath

what a kidder!

__________________
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onchip GeForce 4 MX - 128MB allocated RAM

**Yeloazndevil** · August 10th, 2003, 06:59

>>there is no 960x720 mode

I use 960X720 on my GF4Ti4200. u won't get to use that resolution using nvidia's det drivers, but if u use Omega's drivers u get a lot of resolution choices

__________________

Nintendo Network ID: Yeloazndevil

Andrew Hruska · August 10th, 2003, 09:14

i got, like, 20 different res's using DNA ATI drivers when i had my ATI Radeon IGP 320. Who says 1600x1200 isn't possible on a 1280x1024 max moniter?

I don't.

takwu · August 10th, 2003, 21:51

mmm mine is a Radeon 8500LE and I have always used Catalyst. I don't think I'll switch to 3rd party just for another resolution tho. I'll have to wait for that resolution I guess.

__________________
Latest toy: Sharp LCD TV Monitor LL-M17W1U

**Yeloazndevil** · August 10th, 2003, 21:53

Omega's "Catalyst" drivers are more stable then the official ones

__________________

Nintendo Network ID: Yeloazndevil

July 17th, 2003, 07:42	#1
Captain N. Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 52	I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) This is a suggestion that I've made for Pete and his wonderful PSX graphics plugins before. But I haven't made the request in a while so I figured I'd try again ;-). (btw, anyother gpu author willing to implement such an idea is welcome too :-)) I think it would be cool if in addition to the current openGL setting "Keep PSX aspect ratio", there was an option called something like "Keep PSX display res" or "Keep [some multiple (2x, 3x , etc.)] of PSX display res". What it would do is, display an odd psx resolution (such as the long resolutions found in Crash Bandicoot or Dragon Ball GT Final Bout or the menu in Chrono Cross) at its original res or a multiple of it, and then stretch it to fill the screen. And you could set it to be a multiple of the original resolution so that you could still get higher resolution game play. This could be user configurable, in some sort of a list - list psx res, and the amount is would scale to - or it would be based on some algorithm - if 2x this psx res fits, test 3x, up until one doesn't fit, use the last one that did, if none fit, use standard "Keep psx aspect ratio" that is currently used or crop - or something. This way, you get the benefits of "keep psx aspect ratio" and the added benefits that this technique would bring, such as better looking menus in Chrono Cross - it would make the text appear as crisp as it does on the tv (especially the diagonal lines in the text). It would get rid of that window blinds effect in squaresoft games with tiled backdrops, that you get when playing without "Keep psx aspect ratio" at lower resolutions. You also get to the play the game in full screen, without borders. I don't know about the technical aspects of programming this, but it would make sense that certain things would be easier to implement, and certain problems would be easier to fix (or maybe just different) such as the spaces between textures in games like the FF games or Chrono Cross that used to be such a problem. It might have been easier to fix if the game was being rendered at a multiple of the original resolution, because you would just have to multiply the position of everything by 2.* I have heard in the past that there is no way to render in D3D (don't know about opengl) without taking up the whole screen. That seems to have changed in D3D 8 and 9. A hobby programming language seems to do this by default (example - It streches to full screen, or whatever the window is stretched to - Direct X 8 based). What do you think? * If any of this is not correct, please let me know, I don't really know the specifics of programming a psx gpu plugin, I'm mostly just figuring based on my limitted knowledge of general programming and what I've read about emu programming

July 18th, 2003, 19:22	#4
Pete Bernert Emu author Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 874	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) oh, I have plans for a new OpenGL psx plugin, which is offering something like that (along with other interesting features). Anyway, it will need a kinda powerful gfx card and system (well, prolly a GF3 or Radeon 9500 will be able to do most stuff). But currently it's summer time, and I don't spend much of my free time with coding, so don't hold your breath for it

July 19th, 2003, 01:52	#5
I-Chan Ex Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 3,093	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) Is that so?? That's great news!! I'm holding my breath already XD No, seriously, sounds great, and as i have a 9500, even better . Enjoy the summer Pete! __________________ "I'm living in a dream I can't wake from" Core i5 2500K 3.3Ghz \| 8192 MB DDR3 1333 MHZ \| AMD Radeon HD 6950 2048 MB \| Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB SATAIII+WD Caviar 250GB SATAII \| Dell 3007WFP-HC 30"

July 19th, 2003, 05:09	#6
Captain N. Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 52	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) Cool! Thanks for the reply. I will not hold my breath, the emulation community has made me very patient Besides I will not be able to upgrade my vid card for some time (just did the cpu and mobo). Thanks again.

July 19th, 2003, 13:57	#7
F-3582 Back to regular business Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in Sachsen Posts: 3,258	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) So I guess that I'll have to get a new gfx card (along with a new CPU, MoBo, RAM...) __________________ In a world without walls and fences - who needs Windows and Gates?

July 17th, 2003, 08:14	#3
Captain N. Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 52	BTW these where the settings of pete's openGL plugin when I took the shot. Nothing will make the text cleaner except running it in a window the size of the original resolution of that menu (I haven't actually tested that, since I don't know the original resolution of that menu). ------------------------------------------------------- Plugin: Pete's OpenGL Driver 1.1.72 Author: Pete Bernert Card vendor: NVIDIA Corporation GFX card: GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU/AGP/SSE/3DNOW! Resolution/Color: - 640x480 Window mode [32 Bit]- Keep psx aspect ratio: off Textures: - R8G8B8A8 - Filtering: 4 - Hi-Res textures: 0 - VRam size: 128 MBytes Framerate: - FPS limitation: on - Frame skipping: off - FPS limit: Auto Compatibility: - Offscreen drawing: 3 - Framebuffer texture: 3 - Framebuffer access: 1 - Alpha multipass: on - Mask bit: on - Advanced blending: on Misc: - Scanlines: off - Line mode: off - Unfiltered FB: off - 15 bit FB: off - Dithering: off - Screen smoothing: off - Screen cushion: off - Game fixes: on [00001000]

July 22nd, 2003, 22:14	#8
Valcrist Resident Mac User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: (Hicksville Florida) Posts: 1,447	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) I just got a Radeon 9500....so I'm happy __________________ \| Athlon 64 3200+ \| ASUS 6600GT \| 1 GB Dual Channel \| 20 GB Windows XP \| 100 GB Ubuntu \| 120 GB Storage \| \|14" iBook G4 1.33Ghz\|512 MB\|Radeon 9200\|60GB OSX Tiger\| >--Visit my blog--< http://blog.efx2.com/user/Tim

July 30th, 2003, 08:58	#9
takwu previous extinction Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,857	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) not exactly sure what you mean but it'd be nice if i can have a 960x720 image on a 1024x768 display mode (there is no 960x720 mode). so that the sprites don't get messed up (for 320x240 games) and the 3d stuff can have a better resolution. currently i just use 640x480 instead. __________________ Latest toy: Sharp LCD TV Monitor LL-M17W1U

August 10th, 2003, 06:59	#11
Yeloazndevil Touka <3 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 11,933	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) >>there is no 960x720 mode I use 960X720 on my GF4Ti4200. u won't get to use that resolution using nvidia's det drivers, but if u use Omega's drivers u get a lot of resolution choices __________________ Nintendo Network ID: Yeloazndevil

August 10th, 2003, 09:14	#12
Andrew Hruska Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: somewhere Posts: 1,121	i got, like, 20 different res's using DNA ATI drivers when i had my ATI Radeon IGP 320. Who says 1600x1200 isn't possible on a 1280x1024 max moniter? I don't.

August 10th, 2003, 21:51	#13
takwu previous extinction Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,857	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) mmm mine is a Radeon 8500LE and I have always used Catalyst. I don't think I'll switch to 3rd party just for another resolution tho. I'll have to wait for that resolution I guess. __________________ Latest toy: Sharp LCD TV Monitor LL-M17W1U

August 10th, 2003, 21:53	#14
Yeloazndevil Touka <3 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 11,933	Re: I haven't suggested this in a while so I'll do it now :-) (for gpu autors) Omega's "Catalyst" drivers are more stable then the official ones __________________ Nintendo Network ID: Yeloazndevil

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