Getting a new pc... need some advices.

Hanamichi · October 6th, 2002, 08:08

Im going for the AthlonXP 2000+, with a KT333 motherboard and 512MB of 333mhz DDR Ram

. I'll be keeping my GeForce2MX, 256bit SBLive and other parts. Anyways my question is, what motherboard is good for this setting, and will I benefit from 333mhz Ram since 2000+ has a FSB of 266mhz? Treat me as you would a newbie here, since I dont know much when it comes to things like this.
My budget is $342. The XP costs $102, the single chip ram costs $128 and i have $112 left for the motherboard. I suppose I can squeeze out as much as $12x but thats about it.
I will appreciate it much if anyone can help, thanks.

zukeft · October 6th, 2002, 08:32

As for a brand name, you can't go wrong with Asus or MSI. As for the rest, check out this thread:

http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthre...133mhz+266+fsb

Carnage · October 6th, 2002, 09:21

i'm gonna upgrade my pc in februari

i'm STILL saving money

__________________

Member of the " Pessimists Club "

Visit my personal Doom project (music,not the game) at Lament Of Suffering

JAZ · October 6th, 2002, 11:18

The ram and the fsb dont run at the same speed in 333boards, the ram goes at 166 and the fsb at 133.
This confused me the otherday when I bought my Abit kx7 333.
For your budget I would buy a different system to be honest, I'd start with an Abit like mine (which has been proven to be faster than Asus etc at the same fsb) and buy a XP1600, 256mb ram and use the money saved for a G4ti2000.
My XP1600 I have overclocked to XP2000 speeds and to be honest I cant really tell the difference between the speeds.
I have to unlock my XP1600 and lower the multiplier because it wont go further than 155fsb at the locked 10.5 multiplier, however when I unlock it I will be able to run both the ram and the fsb at 166 which will remove that bottle neck and still be around the 1600mhz that an xp2000 is.
Even if you dont fancy overclocking the money saved on the chip/ram and used on the graphics card will be money better spent.
Another thing allways buy decent ram like crucial which you can get quite cheap buying online direct from crucial.

**Demigod** · October 6th, 2002, 15:07

According to benchmarks there's nary a difference using PC2700 DDR RAM on a 266 Mhz FSB. You might as well save some money and get PC2100 DDR RAM with a good KT266A board as you'll hardly notice any performance gain using DDR333. Of course you could try overclocking it to a 166 Mhz FSB but Athlons at that speed don't overclock much and they're not rated to run at that FSB speed. Plus if you're going to overclock you might as well go with the P4. A P4 1.8A (Socket 478) costs around $124 and will easily overclock to 2.4 Ghz and can properly utilize faster DDR333 and RDRAM.

__________________
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Proud millionaire folder of the NGEmu folding team

October 6th, 2002, 16:18

I definately agree with Demigod. Unless you have a lot of money to invest into cooling the AMD proccessors. You better go with a pentium. AMD chips (aside from XP 1600+) really aren't the best OCers. Now I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this. But I think its true.

Honestly I'd go with a Kt333 anyway. \If you want future proof for proccessor upgrades. If your someone who upgrades there PC every few years (unlike me and my 6 month plan heh) Then the kt233a which demigod reccomended will be fine.

Hanamichi · October 6th, 2002, 16:49

Well, the reason I chose XP2000+ over 1800+ (1600+ is no longer available around my area) is because the prices differ less than $16. Im not going to get a new graphics card for the time being though, since Im not into serious gaming yet until more games are released. And I might pick up a good one from my uncle's cafe too

(he has parts lying around, but not proccessors)
If I go with a P4 1.8 O/C @2.4, how will the original cooling system work? Do I have to add in a volcano fan and worry about heat issues all the while? Im considering getting a P4 now cause I really like the idea of using DDR333 Ram, since the prices between 333 and 266 dont differ much as well form the shop Im going to buy from, and Athlon wont make much of a difference using DDR333 than DDR266 according to you guys.
Also, which is faster, P4 1.8A O/C@ 2.2 and a AthlonXP 2000+ ?

Thanks for all the reply, Btw.

Ninjaa · October 7th, 2002, 00:10

I would say just off hand that a P4 at 2.2 will outperform an Athlon XP 2000+. Using DDR memory in a P4 always seemed like a slightly bad idea to me though. Demigod will probably correct me though, as my hardware knowledge is rather obsolete, and I haven't kept up with it in recent years.

**Demigod** · October 7th, 2002, 04:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanamichi
If I go with a P4 1.8 O/C @2.4, how will the original cooling system work? Do I have to add in a volcano fan and worry about heat issues all the while? Im considering getting a P4 now cause I really like the idea of using DDR333 Ram, since the prices between 333 and 266 dont differ much as well form the shop Im going to buy from, and Athlon wont make much of a difference using DDR333 than DDR266 according to you guys.
Also, which is faster, P4 1.8A O/C@ 2.2 and a AthlonXP 2000+ ?

Thanks for all the reply, Btw.

It should run stable overclocked on the stock heatsink and fan but it's best to invest in a better cooling solution (as is the case in most overclocking situations). A P4 1.8A @ 2.2 Ghz would definitely be faster than the Athlon XP 2000+, especially with DDR333 or PC800/PC1066 RDRAM.

Ninja: Generally it's best to use RAM synchronous with the CPU FSB. The Athlon XP @ 266 Mhz FSB would therefore be perfectly matched with DDR266 (and the upcoming XP 2800+ @ 333 Mhz FSB would be a perfect match for DDR333). DDR memory is still too slow to fully satiate the bandwidth of the P4 though. Dual-channel PC1066 RDRAM is currently the only things that can match the P4's bandwidth. However this doesn't mean DDR RAM doesn't go well with the P4. The i845G utilizes DDR266/333 RAM and it is an outstanding performer. DDR memory also has much lower latency and can utlize more of its bandwidth. DDR333 (2.7 GB/s bandwidth) has been shown to be slightly faster than dual-channel PC800 RDRAM (3.2 GB/s bandwidth), although it has 500 MB less bandwidth.

__________________
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Proud millionaire folder of the NGEmu folding team

ToM_E · October 7th, 2002, 05:43

Quote:

Originally posted by zukeft
As for a brand name, you can't go wrong with Asus or MSI. As for the rest, check out this thread:

http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthre...133mhz+266+fsb

I had problems with ASUS...I rather go for MSI which im currently using.

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Windows 7 x64

zukeft · October 7th, 2002, 05:51

Yeah... the Award BIOS on my Asus board is somewhat buggy.

Cons · October 7th, 2002, 06:30

I would go for athlon processor..coz they're cheap..a better value for ur money compared to p4. but if u can earn money fast then its ok to go 4 p4 if u ask me. but if i were u, then ill go for athlon and save money for other things...like a decent v card(unlike our gf2 mx). i recently bought my zthlon xp1800+ and im happy with it..now my major bottleneck is my gf2 mx

...so im saving for proly a gf4 ti4200,ill get one after nv30 ships. for 4200 to be cheaper than it already is. go for athlon man..besides, AMD could use all the help they can get, they're down in the market right now.

__________________
courtesy of STRIDER....thanks man

dogulation000 · October 7th, 2002, 07:12

Buy an Athlon XP? Don't overclock. Just do it. You'll regret it.

Hanamichi · October 7th, 2002, 07:46

Hell I wont touch the clock settings of an Athlon, never!

So Demigod, your suggestion is that I get a P4 1.8A and O/C it to 2.4, get more cooling solutions, a i845G motherboard (okay, you didnt suggest but its the only P4 one mentioned) and 512MB DDR333 RAM ? How much will the motherboard cost?

About getting an Athlon and help AMD.. I would dearly love to do that, unfortunately Im not a rich person myself, and would want to squeeze every bit of bang outta my buck. Now I need to read some O/C'ing articles...

dogulation000 · October 7th, 2002, 08:26

With Pentium 4 overclocking, you might not even need more cooling. Just slowly tweak it a little bit a time, once every one or two weeks.

Hanamichi · October 7th, 2002, 08:32

The thing is Im afraid that I might fry my chip. After reading some articles about overclocking and all the disclaimers before that, Im wondering if I should even attempt at overclocking now. I wont have peace of mind should I decide to overclock without adding in more coolers.

October 7th, 2002, 09:37

If your not comfortable with it. Don't Do it. Overclocking isnt for everyone. You can damage your equipment When I become un satisfied with my hardware. I take steps up. It's cheaper than you think to upgrade a single part if you buy logically

Hanamichi · October 7th, 2002, 12:22

I guess I will have to make a choice for myself for the time being. But before that, I'd like to know the speed difference between DDR266 and DDR333? Not the exact of course, just roughly.

**Demigod** · October 7th, 2002, 20:24

Overclocking Intel CPUs are generally safer than AMD CPUs. The P4 has advanced thermal protection so it's very unlikely that it'll die from overheating. Even if the heatsink falls off or the fan fails the P4 will still run (it'll automatically run slower to prevent overheating). I'm not entirely sure if it's the same case with overclocking.. anyways, the overclockability of the P4 Northwood is well known. P4 Northwoods are capable of reaching extremely high clock speeds (3+ Ghz) so just get one at a low clock speed (1.8 - 2.0 Ghz) and overclock the hell out of it. It'll be a lot more bang for your buck in the end.

P4 1.8A = $124 (overclock to 2.4B)
P4 2.4B = $189
Athlon XP 2400+ = $199

As for P4 mobos you can find reviews of the i845G here and here. You can also find good, cheap SiS chipsets like the 648 for the Pentium (got a good review from Kyle Bennett of [H]ardOCP.com).

If you've never overclocked before and are unsure then just go for the Athlon. They're a lot more value for your money at stock speeds. Overclocking is a very viable option for the P4 but if you don't feel good about it then don't do it.

DDR266 = 266 x 8 (32 bit) = 2128 MB/s
DDR333 = 333 x 8 (32 bit) = 2664 MB/s

Difference is around 20%

These numbers don't always reflect accurately in benchmark scores but it's always good to have more memory bandwidth (at least for the P4). There's also DDR400 but I don't recommend it as of yet. Currently it's only available in CAS2.5 while DDR333 is CAS2.0. CAS latency has shown to have a big impact on performance so it's best to wait for a CAS2.0 DDR400 before looking into it.

__________________
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Mobo: Intel DX48BT2 Memory: 4096 MB PC10600 DDR3 Videocard: PNY Geforce 9800 GX2 Soundcard: On-board SigmaTel High Definition Audio Hard drive: 120 GB OCZ RevoDrive PCI-E SSD & 1 TB Hitachi Optical drive: LG GGW-H20L (2x BD-R DL) PSU: Nexus 1000 Watt PSU OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit)

Proud millionaire folder of the NGEmu folding team

Ninjaa · October 8th, 2002, 04:53

Demigod, you are making me regret buying an Athlon XP.

But since I am still using PC-133, I guess it really doesn't matter.

October 6th, 2002, 08:08	#1
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,580	Getting a new pc... need some advices. Im going for the AthlonXP 2000+, with a KT333 motherboard and 512MB of 333mhz DDR Ram . I'll be keeping my GeForce2MX, 256bit SBLive and other parts. Anyways my question is, what motherboard is good for this setting, and will I benefit from 333mhz Ram since 2000+ has a FSB of 266mhz? Treat me as you would a newbie here, since I dont know much when it comes to things like this. My budget is $342. The XP costs $102, the single chip ram costs $128 and i have $112 left for the motherboard. I suppose I can squeeze out as much as $12x but thats about it. I will appreciate it much if anyone can help, thanks.

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October 6th, 2002, 08:32	#2
zukeft Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 1,157	As for a brand name, you can't go wrong with Asus or MSI. As for the rest, check out this thread: http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthre...133mhz+266+fsb

October 6th, 2002, 09:21	#3
Carnage Illusion's play Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In a world of lies Posts: 3,705	i'm gonna upgrade my pc in februari i'm STILL saving money __________________ Member of the " Pessimists Club " Visit my personal Doom project (music,not the game) at Lament Of Suffering

October 6th, 2002, 11:18	#4
JAZ Nintendo Zealot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,425	The ram and the fsb dont run at the same speed in 333boards, the ram goes at 166 and the fsb at 133. This confused me the otherday when I bought my Abit kx7 333. For your budget I would buy a different system to be honest, I'd start with an Abit like mine (which has been proven to be faster than Asus etc at the same fsb) and buy a XP1600, 256mb ram and use the money saved for a G4ti2000. My XP1600 I have overclocked to XP2000 speeds and to be honest I cant really tell the difference between the speeds. I have to unlock my XP1600 and lower the multiplier because it wont go further than 155fsb at the locked 10.5 multiplier, however when I unlock it I will be able to run both the ram and the fsb at 166 which will remove that bottle neck and still be around the 1600mhz that an xp2000 is. Even if you dont fancy overclocking the money saved on the chip/ram and used on the graphics card will be money better spent. Another thing allways buy decent ram like crucial which you can get quite cheap buying online direct from crucial.

October 6th, 2002, 15:07	#5
Demigod これはバタスです Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,332	According to benchmarks there's nary a difference using PC2700 DDR RAM on a 266 Mhz FSB. You might as well save some money and get PC2100 DDR RAM with a good KT266A board as you'll hardly notice any performance gain using DDR333. Of course you could try overclocking it to a 166 Mhz FSB but Athlons at that speed don't overclock much and they're not rated to run at that FSB speed. Plus if you're going to overclock you might as well go with the P4. A P4 1.8A (Socket 478) costs around $124 and will easily overclock to 2.4 Ghz and can properly utilize faster DDR333 and RDRAM. __________________ CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Mobo: Intel DX48BT2 Memory: 4096 MB PC10600 DDR3 Videocard: PNY Geforce 9800 GX2 Soundcard: On-board SigmaTel High Definition Audio Hard drive: 120 GB OCZ RevoDrive PCI-E SSD & 1 TB Hitachi Optical drive: LG GGW-H20L (2x BD-R DL) PSU: Nexus 1000 Watt PSU OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit) Proud millionaire folder of the NGEmu folding team

October 6th, 2002, 16:18	#6
ChrisRay Guest Posts: n/a	I definately agree with Demigod. Unless you have a lot of money to invest into cooling the AMD proccessors. You better go with a pentium. AMD chips (aside from XP 1600+) really aren't the best OCers. Now I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this. But I think its true. Honestly I'd go with a Kt333 anyway. \If you want future proof for proccessor upgrades. If your someone who upgrades there PC every few years (unlike me and my 6 month plan heh) Then the kt233a which demigod reccomended will be fine.

October 6th, 2002, 16:49	#7
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,580	Well, the reason I chose XP2000+ over 1800+ (1600+ is no longer available around my area) is because the prices differ less than $16. Im not going to get a new graphics card for the time being though, since Im not into serious gaming yet until more games are released. And I might pick up a good one from my uncle's cafe too (he has parts lying around, but not proccessors) If I go with a P4 1.8 O/C @2.4, how will the original cooling system work? Do I have to add in a volcano fan and worry about heat issues all the while? Im considering getting a P4 now cause I really like the idea of using DDR333 Ram, since the prices between 333 and 266 dont differ much as well form the shop Im going to buy from, and Athlon wont make much of a difference using DDR333 than DDR266 according to you guys. Also, which is faster, P4 1.8A O/C@ 2.2 and a AthlonXP 2000+ ? Thanks for all the reply, Btw.

October 7th, 2002, 00:10	#8
Ninjaa Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soviet Canuckistan Posts: 7,778	I would say just off hand that a P4 at 2.2 will outperform an Athlon XP 2000+. Using DDR memory in a P4 always seemed like a slightly bad idea to me though. Demigod will probably correct me though, as my hardware knowledge is rather obsolete, and I haven't kept up with it in recent years.

October 7th, 2002, 05:51	#11
zukeft Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bogota, Colombia Posts: 1,157	Yeah... the Award BIOS on my Asus board is somewhat buggy.

October 7th, 2002, 06:30	#12
Cons Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philippines Posts: 325	I would go for athlon processor..coz they're cheap..a better value for ur money compared to p4. but if u can earn money fast then its ok to go 4 p4 if u ask me. but if i were u, then ill go for athlon and save money for other things...like a decent v card(unlike our gf2 mx). i recently bought my zthlon xp1800+ and im happy with it..now my major bottleneck is my gf2 mx ...so im saving for proly a gf4 ti4200,ill get one after nv30 ships. for 4200 to be cheaper than it already is. go for athlon man..besides, AMD could use all the help they can get, they're down in the market right now. __________________ courtesy of STRIDER....thanks man

October 7th, 2002, 07:12	#13
dogulation000 The Upcoming Rookie Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 620	Buy an Athlon XP? Don't overclock. Just do it. You'll regret it.

October 7th, 2002, 07:46	#14
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,580	Hell I wont touch the clock settings of an Athlon, never! So Demigod, your suggestion is that I get a P4 1.8A and O/C it to 2.4, get more cooling solutions, a i845G motherboard (okay, you didnt suggest but its the only P4 one mentioned) and 512MB DDR333 RAM ? How much will the motherboard cost? About getting an Athlon and help AMD.. I would dearly love to do that, unfortunately Im not a rich person myself, and would want to squeeze every bit of bang outta my buck. Now I need to read some O/C'ing articles...

October 7th, 2002, 08:26	#15
dogulation000 The Upcoming Rookie Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 620	With Pentium 4 overclocking, you might not even need more cooling. Just slowly tweak it a little bit a time, once every one or two weeks.

October 7th, 2002, 08:32	#16
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,580	The thing is Im afraid that I might fry my chip. After reading some articles about overclocking and all the disclaimers before that, Im wondering if I should even attempt at overclocking now. I wont have peace of mind should I decide to overclock without adding in more coolers.

October 7th, 2002, 09:37	#17
ChrisRay Guest Posts: n/a	If your not comfortable with it. Don't Do it. Overclocking isnt for everyone. You can damage your equipment When I become un satisfied with my hardware. I take steps up. It's cheaper than you think to upgrade a single part if you buy logically

October 7th, 2002, 12:22	#18
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,580	I guess I will have to make a choice for myself for the time being. But before that, I'd like to know the speed difference between DDR266 and DDR333? Not the exact of course, just roughly.

October 7th, 2002, 20:24	#19
Demigod これはバタスです Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,332	Overclocking Intel CPUs are generally safer than AMD CPUs. The P4 has advanced thermal protection so it's very unlikely that it'll die from overheating. Even if the heatsink falls off or the fan fails the P4 will still run (it'll automatically run slower to prevent overheating). I'm not entirely sure if it's the same case with overclocking.. anyways, the overclockability of the P4 Northwood is well known. P4 Northwoods are capable of reaching extremely high clock speeds (3+ Ghz) so just get one at a low clock speed (1.8 - 2.0 Ghz) and overclock the hell out of it. It'll be a lot more bang for your buck in the end. P4 1.8A = $124 (overclock to 2.4B) P4 2.4B = $189 Athlon XP 2400+ = $199 As for P4 mobos you can find reviews of the i845G here and here. You can also find good, cheap SiS chipsets like the 648 for the Pentium (got a good review from Kyle Bennett of [H]ardOCP.com). If you've never overclocked before and are unsure then just go for the Athlon. They're a lot more value for your money at stock speeds. Overclocking is a very viable option for the P4 but if you don't feel good about it then don't do it. DDR266 = 266 x 8 (32 bit) = 2128 MB/s DDR333 = 333 x 8 (32 bit) = 2664 MB/s Difference is around 20% These numbers don't always reflect accurately in benchmark scores but it's always good to have more memory bandwidth (at least for the P4). There's also DDR400 but I don't recommend it as of yet. Currently it's only available in CAS2.5 while DDR333 is CAS2.0. CAS latency has shown to have a big impact on performance so it's best to wait for a CAS2.0 DDR400 before looking into it. __________________ CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Mobo: Intel DX48BT2 Memory: 4096 MB PC10600 DDR3 Videocard: PNY Geforce 9800 GX2 Soundcard: On-board SigmaTel High Definition Audio Hard drive: 120 GB OCZ RevoDrive PCI-E SSD & 1 TB Hitachi Optical drive: LG GGW-H20L (2x BD-R DL) PSU: Nexus 1000 Watt PSU OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit) Proud millionaire folder of the NGEmu folding team

October 8th, 2002, 04:53	#20
Ninjaa Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soviet Canuckistan Posts: 7,778	Demigod, you are making me regret buying an Athlon XP. But since I am still using PC-133, I guess it really doesn't matter.