McDonalds: Two lesbians attack, one man defends himself.

[blueshogun96]

The media purposely misrepresented this story already. The man was just defending himself from getting jumped. Hell, if I were getting jumped by two people, I'd beat their *ucking asses with a f@#%ing lead pipe too! I don't give a *burp* who it is. I can almost guarantee you that he's going to get prosecuted over nothing...

EDIT: See how the story is already being misrepresented? http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/...tan-mcdonalds/

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — An argument between a cashier and two irate customers at a Manhattan McDonald’s turned violent, leaving both customers injured and all three facing charges.

The entire incident, which was captured on video, happened Thursday morning at a McDonald’s on West Fourth Street in Greenwich Village, CBS 2’s Chris Wragge reports.

It appeared to have started when two female customers argued and yelled obscenities at the cashier when he questioned a $50 bill they gave him.

One of the female customers then slapped the cashier. A woman is then seen jumping over the counter while the other woman goes behind the register.

That’s when the cashier can be seen on the video disappearing into the back of the fast-food restaurant. He comes back with a metal rod and begins hitting the women.

Other customers watched in horror as McDonald’s workers tried unsuccessfully to stop the violence.

One female customer had a fractured skull that required surgery and a broken arm. The other has a deep laceration.

Rayon McIntosh, 31, was arrested and charged with two counts of felony assault and criminal possession of a weapon.

McIntosh served more than a decade in prison after shooting and killing a high school classmate in 2000. He was being held on $40,000 bail.

The female customers were charged with menacing, disorderly conduct and trespassing.

The owner of that McDonald’s said in a statement that she was “disturbed” by what happened and said the cashier is no longer employed there.

Notice how the guy is being charged with f@#%ing assault and possesion of a weapon [that belongs to McDonalds in the first place ]. Hell, they might as well charge him with "self defense", at least that's a more honest description of his actions. This is a load of horse*burp*. The law enforcers obviously doesn't have a brain. Who was assaulting who here? Why aren't they being charged with assault? Makes no *burp*ing sense.

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Last edited by blueshogun96; October 20th, 2011 at 08:38..

[Smilley]

It's called disproportionate retaliation. The women attacked him with their bare hands, and he struck back with a lead pipe. Given that one of the women suffered a skull fracture shows that this could have ended in manslaughter just as well. And hitting them when they're down is NOT considered self-defense any more. I'm not sure the weapon possession claim will hold; it depends whether it was his rod and why he had it with him.
I think the women's charge of menacing is pretty spot-on. The most they handed out was a black eye and maybe a scratchmark.
Also remember that the guy was out on probation after being in prison for murder.

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[blueshogun96]

Originally Posted by Smilley

It's called disproportionate retaliation. The women attacked him with their bare hands, and he struck back with a lead pipe. Given that one of the women suffered a skull fracture shows that this could have ended in manslaughter just as well. And hitting them when they're down is NOT considered self-defense any more. I'm not sure the weapon possession claim will hold; it depends whether it was his rod and why he had it with him.
I think the women's charge of menacing is pretty spot-on. The most they handed out was a black eye and maybe a scratchmark.
Also remember that the guy was out on probation after being in prison for murder.

I sorta agree with the bolded statement, but unless they were "down for the count", I wouldn't recommend second guessing the state of the attackers if they look like they are going to get up for round 2. I would have waited for them to get up and see if they wanted to continue the pursuit and if not, tell them to leave.

Quite frankly, when you're getting jumped and it is clear that you are outnumbered (since no one else did anything to stop it), you should be able to use any means of non-lethal force necessary to defend yourself. Even though they were using their bare hands, it really doesn't matter because they could have easily grabbed something with those bare hands and did further damage to him such as throwing some hot french greasy fries in his face with the strainer. Furthermore, you'd be amazed at what someone can do with their bare hands. There were a number of things that could have gone wrong there. What was he supposed to do? Stand there and get beaten? Yes, a skull fracture is indeed extreme and he should he held accountable for using excessive force, but an assault charge is out of the question.

And just because he's a former murderer doesn't mean a thing when being relentlessly attacked when just simply doing his job by raising suspicion of counterfeit. So you're basically saying that he's more than likely a guilty suspect due to a crime he's formally committed? No doubt that will be used against him in court.

Bottom line, never second guess your attacker whether they appear to be armed or not. Maybe those girls should have evaluated the consequences of their actions. And I hate to play the culture card here, but etiquette lacking hood rat mentality people are notoriously vicious so I'm quite sure he knew what he was actually dealing with.

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[capo_2k]

lol what the f*** is wrong with these people?

Well, I dunno what the girl's problems were, mouthing off about nothing probably. Who cares. But anyway, you meet d***heads like that now and then, and you just gotta put up with their nonsense. A guy should also be able to take a punch or a knock now and then, not like he's gonna cry over it is he?

Now, the beating he gave them...that was f***ing brutal! And with a weapon too, that is sick. That guy's f***in' horrible.

[@ruantec]

The part i definitely do not agree with is the one at the end when the guy kept hitting the womans even if they were already in the floor while that other woman was saying "Stop, stop, stop" but he kept hitting like a mad guy.

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Last edited by @ruantec; October 20th, 2011 at 10:58..

[Prads]

I think he did the right thing. Those girls deserved it, it's ridiculous that this guy is being charged...

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[JohnJack]

All I can say is that they should not have gone behind the counter, i.e. the employee area. Anything that happens behind there is their fault. It is like catching a thief in your home, and you are charged with assault for maiming them . But then again, anything can happen in America .

[blueshogun96]

Originally Posted by JohnJack

All I can say is that they should not have gone behind the counter, i.e. the employee area. Anything that happens behind there is their fault. It is like catching a thief in your home, and you are charged with assault for maiming them . But then again, anything can happen in America .

This.

Originally Posted by capo_2k

lol what the f*** is wrong with these people?

Well, I dunno what the girl's problems were, mouthing off about nothing probably. Who cares. But anyway, you meet d***heads like that now and then, and you just gotta put up with their nonsense. A guy should also be able to take a punch or a knock now and then, not like he's gonna cry over it is he?

Now, the beating he gave them...that was f***ing brutal! And with a weapon too, that is sick. That guy's f***in' horrible.

No, it wasn't about nothing since counterfeiting is a serious federal crime. But the way you talk about it, you sound as if you think he should have just stood there and get his ass beaten.

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[Ahielia]

Originally Posted by JohnJack

All I can say is that they should not have gone behind the counter, i.e. the employee area. Anything that happens behind there is their fault. It is like catching a thief in your home, and you are charged with assault for maiming them . But then again, anything can happen in America .

Indeed.

He first got assaulted, then the woman charged after him after he went away?
Yup, I wouldn't take too kindly to that either.

And yes, there have been people getting convicted from hurting a burglar in their own homes.

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

He went overboard, it's as simple as that. Just brandishing the rod should have been more than enough to let them know the game was over. There's no ways 2 women with bare hands can do anywhere near enough damage to warrant a fractured skull. The guy is wrong. The media is right. The charges are just.

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Last edited by SCHUMI_4EVER; October 20th, 2011 at 14:58..

[capo_2k]

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

No, it wasn't about nothing since counterfeiting is a serious federal crime. But the way you talk about it, you sound as if you think he should have just stood there and get his ass beaten.

Well I didn't read the quote so I didn't see the thing about the fake $50, but whatever, it's not the point. And no, you know that's not what I mean, obviously you don't stand there and take it so don't start arguing. But you don't go and get weapons. If it was me I would've restrained them, probably with the help of the other employees and let the police handle it. Right, so that's the fake $50 and the abusive women issue sorted.

Now, as for battering s*** outta them with a metal bar...no man, that's just sick. It's just lowering yourself to their level...and then lowering yourself even further.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

He went overboard, it's as simple as that ... There's no ways 2 women with bare hands can do anywhere near enough damage to warrant a fractured skull.

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

It's worth pointing out that if he handled it the way I said, he wouldn't have got in the s***, probably would've got some compensation or something for being "assulted" or whatever and he'd come off looking decent. It made it to the news because it was nasty.

It's bad s*** anyway.

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Last edited by capo_2k; October 20th, 2011 at 15:21..

[Smilley]

This whole "step on my porch, and I may legally kill you" thing is just soooo US-American. To clarify self defense a bit: you are allowed to defend against any attack with a force that must not exceed the percievable threat the attacker poses.
In laymen's terms: if the attacker comes at you barehanded, and isn't built like a brick wall, you may punch or restrain him, but not break his bones. Once he brandishes a knife, all stops are off. He poses a direct threat to your life, and thus, you may kill him if need be. If you restrain him in a way that he drops the knife, you may not kick him dead, though.
In this case, knocking the women out with punches would have been OK, but getting a bludgeon and striking them on the ground is not within acceptable force anymore.

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

And just because he's a former murderer doesn't mean a thing when being relentlessly attacked when just simply doing his job by raising suspicion of counterfeit. So you're basically saying that he's more than likely a guilty suspect due to a crime he's formally committed? No doubt that will be used against him in court.

I don't say he's automatically guilty because of his former crimes, but that he was aware of his parole conditions. He should have been even more cautious and restrained than the average citizen. And that there are many options between "getting beaten up" and "clobbering your attackers almost to death".

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[Redbear]

Alls I havta say is

[Thanakil]

Both sides are guilty and I quite honestly have no sympathy for them.
That said, I don't see anything wrong with the assault charges against him. It is MOST definitely not self-defense. In self-defense you can use force until the attacks stop.

In this case there's disparity of force (a fricking weapon?!) + he kept hitting them long after the attacks stopped.

Something else :
In the video I see one slap connecting and maybe a second one (looks like he had already moved too far from them by that point).
Meanwhile, the guy escalated the situation to beating on them with a weapon.

You are not allowed to use greater force than necessary when it comes to self-defense. You can use similar force to what is used against you, and enough force to make the attacks stop.
He was slapped. He fractured a skull. Not even close to being reasonable.
Self-defense isn't a more honest description of his actions. Assault is.

Fun fact : Once they were down the girls probably gained the right of self-defense.
Lack of space to make a proper withdrawal + attacks have stopped + great use of force/continuous attacks against them = even if they were the original aggressors they may have regained it.


And seriously, being women may have saved them from a 3rd degree assault charge for the slap, but it doesnt make it worse for the guy. His own actions did.

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Last edited by Thanakil; October 20th, 2011 at 15:48..

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

He also almost even whacked one his co-workers.

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[Xblade]

Yerp, its the same thing as shooting someone who steps on your lawn.......and he already has a serious record.
He had subdued them in seconds, yet he continued to beat them on the floor.


If a girl slaps me like a man, I will return the favor.(unless they're tiny or fail)

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Last edited by Xblade; October 20th, 2011 at 15:43..

[JohnJack]

Regardless of your view of the situation, the courts of law will have the final take on it. If he were released without charge, or given a few more years in jail, that comes down to a jury of his peers (if such a system still exists). Not to pick on the Muslims, but if this event had happened in a Arab country, I'm sure the final outcome in their courts would've been totally different than what we are currently discussing, simply because we've grown up in a different culture.

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by JohnJack

Not to pick on the Muslims, but if this event had happened in a Arab country, I'm sure the final outcome in their courts would've been totally different than what we are currently discussing, simply because we've grown up in a different culture.

Yea,the women are subjugated to the point of a slavery minded individual
and wouldn't have dared to question a mans authority on the matter.
sheesh.

[Xblade]

Originally Posted by JohnJack

Regardless of your view of the situation, the courts of law will have the final take on it. If he were released without charge, or given a few more years in jail, that comes down to a jury of his peers (if such a system still exists). Not to pick on the Muslims, but if this event had happened in a Arab country, I'm sure the final outcome in their courts would've been totally different than what we are currently discussing, simply because we've grown up in a different culture.

I'm sure the muslim verdict would of been 10x more biased.

Just saying.

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[Nar Matteru]

Defending yourself means removing the risk to yourself. Nothing else. Not getting even or "teaching them a lesson" There's no way after the first three strikes with a lead pipe straight to the ****ing head that she was gonna get up, infact the first one would have most likely assured his safety. A solid punch to the jaw would have had the same effect and the chance of permanent brain damage and even death would have been significantly less.

One persons jackass behavior doesn't give you the right to behave like a sadistic psychopath. It even looks like he clipped one of the other employees. Talk about a blind rage.

That being said, had this been a convenience store in a carry state instead of a "family" restaurant, these women would have most likely have eaten buckshot just for reaching over the counter, much less climbing over it.

Side note: I saw the thread of the title, and on instinct thought what man would defend themselves against two lesbians? Sounded much more promising than attack by chicken nuggets, though.