PSN hacked, down, compromised

[Ginisa]

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

PlayStation.Blog.Europe : Your daily fix of PlayStation news from across the SCEE region


Looks like they took the plaintext accusations to heart. >_> Is hashing any better than plaintext? :|

Yes. Hashing is magnitudes better than your friendly plain text.

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by Hard core Rikki

You mean that Sony somehow considered it possible, when it shouldve normally have been certain they werent stolen and couldnt be accessed in the first place?

By all means do explain the publicly accessible logs for their servers and PSN then, please. You know how these communist anti-sony haters with cc details input into PSN are.

No, I mean Sony could have said that it was a hack when it could have been something even messier. Like... gasp, someone lost his administrator login!

All things considered, if you'd think user login and account informations are publicly available in plain text, it's not too crazy to think someone might have caught an administrator account, logged in, did stuffs like... dump logs, dump database, and logged out.

Which would explain the long down time. They have to be able to say it was an exploit and that they lost because someone attacked them. People's jobs are on the line here so that's not too unreasonable. Either say "sorry, I messed up" and get fired, or say "I think we got attacked", and get away with your job intact.

That's also considering the fact that... if it was an attack and someone was careful enough to cover their tracks and make it so hard to detect what happened even a week later, then... how was it detected in the first place?

"Hey, I think I just got robbed, but I don't know who did it or how they did it and all of my stuffs are still here!"

See what I mean? We are still in the dark even now, and Sony's last statement basically said something along the line of what I just pointed out. For all we know, they might have been "hacked" a long while ago. If security was good enough that the attack could be detected, then why would the log be available publicly? Why didn't they stop it? And if they couldn't detect it in time, then how did they detect it but not know about it when it happened? Hm... questions...

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

The point is that they are compensating customers, and are still getting b**ched at. You even labeled them as thieves.(or at least gave two nonsensical and incomprehensible analogies)

Well, did I b*tch about them?
I merely pointed out that their compensation wasn't enough.

you gotta calm down...

Mistake, I meant to put millions of dollars, and YES they are losing massive amounts of money. You are silly if you think otherwise.

No, please explain to me how they are losing millions of dollars for shutting down a free service. I'd like to know why I am silly.

[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Well, did I b*tch about them?
I merely pointed out that their compensation wasn't enough.

I called my credit card company. They were very aware of the problem and I was protected. Call took 5min.

I think Sony's compensation is enough to cover the 5-10min I spent dealing with the problem.

[Beatrix]

People always want to make a problem bigger than what it really is.

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[Spyhop]

If there's anyone Sony should be compensating it's the credit card companies who have to spend a ****load of man-hours dealing with this crap.

[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by Spyhop

I called my credit card company. They were very aware of the problem and I was protected. Call took 5min.

I think Sony's compensation is enough to cover the 5-10min I spent dealing with the problem.

Well, some people actually put in real addresses and real names. Now those are things I'm sure people wouldn't want exposed.

Yes, I know, never give your real name to strangers. But hey, some people do.

On another note, name, address, birthdate and gender were leaked along with email address and you can only hope no phone number were leaked in any way. All of which happen to be loved by stalkers...

[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Well, some people actually put in real addresses and real names. Now those are things I'm sure people wouldn't want exposed.

I used my real name. You have to if you're using a CC.
But if you use the internet and you think your information isn't already out there in the world, you're deluding yourself. I changed my relevant passwords, and made sure my CC was ok. A little due dilligence is all that's required to protect yourself.

On another note, name, address, birthdate and gender were leaked along with email address and you can only hope no phone number were leaked in any way. All of which happen to be loved by stalkers...

LOL. I very seriously doubt anyone's going to be stalking me.

[runawayprisoner]

Well, sure your name is well-known throughout the internet, but it's usually not known to people who aren't tied to you contractually, unless you wish to.

And your name and address can be used for more than stalking. Stalking is just the obvious part of it.

[Xblade]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Well, did I b*tch about them?
I merely pointed out that their compensation wasn't enough.

you gotta calm down...

You gotta stop being so smug. Cursing isn't an indication of anger in my culture.

I merely pointed out that their compensation wasn't enough.

Otherwise known as complaining, synonymous with *****ing.

And for the record, I wasn't even specifically pointing you out in the first sentence of that post.

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

No, please explain to me how they are losing millions of dollars for shutting down a free service. I'd like to know why I am silly.

The cost of Sony’s PlayStation Network outage: $24 billion or $20 million? | VentureBeat

The estimates today range from $20 million in lost revenues for a couple of weeks to $24 billion for the full costs of dealing with the consequences of losing control of customer data.

Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan, estimates that Sony makes about $500 million in annual revenue from PSN sales of downloadable games, movies, music etc. So that comes out to about $10 million per week, with a 30 percent profit margin. Over two weeks of an outage (Sony said it would be down for another week as the system is rebuilt), Sony will likely lose about $20 million in revenue and $6 million in lost profit.

Sony will also likely have to compensate users for downtime, which could come in the form of credits for free usage. Sony may also have to incur some expense to indemnify customers against credit card and identity theft. Pachter believes those expenses will likely be pretty small, mainly because he believes the hackers probably wont fully capitalize on the stolen credit card data. If they really wanted a big score on that front, he reasons, the hackers would hit a luxury retailer.

But Forbes cited a study by the Ponemon Institute, a think tank on security, that estimated the cost per person for a data breach is $318. That means the potential cost of the PlayStation Network breach could be more than $24 billion. That’s probably a stretch, but it is a reminder of how much data breaches can cost a company. The loss for Sony’s reputation is probably immeasurable.

This was painfully obvious even for someone like me who doesn't know a thing about businesses. Common sense.

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Last edited by Xblade; May 4th, 2011 at 02:40..

[Lasnap]

Oh by the way PSN+ is not a free service so you gotta take into account that a percent of those accounts were PSN+ accounts as well.

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

You gotta stop being so smug. Cursing isn't an indication of anger in my culture.

You gotta chill. Talking like a smartass isn't being smug in my culture.

Otherwise known as complaining, synonymous with *****ing.

Is that an opinion or a fact?

And for the record, I wasn't even specifically pointing you out in the first sentence of that post.

So who were you pointing out?

This was painfully obvious even for someone like me who doesn't know a thing about businesses. Common sense.

The estimates today range from $20 million in lost revenues for a couple of weeks to $24 billion for the full costs of dealing with the consequences of losing control of customer data.

Source: The cost of Sony’s PlayStation Network outage: $24 billion or $20 million? | VentureBeat

3. the gross income from a business enterprise, investment, property, etc

Source: Revenue | Define Revenue at Dictionary.com

something that comes in as an addition or increase, especially by chance.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/income

Are we purposefully twisting the English language?

So judging by your logic, if I don't buy Sony stock today, and they rise $100 a share tomorrow, does that mean I lost $100?

Wow...

(Pst, I'm letting that "for a couple of weeks" thing go since obviously, it's been... oh wait... a week!)

Originally Posted by Lasnap

Oh by the way PSN+ is not a free service so you gotta take into account that a percent of those accounts were PSN+ accounts as well.

Except that you aren't paying Sony when PSN is down.

Honestly, I would avoid any long drawn out discussion as much as possible, but this is getting too good to ignore.

[Xblade]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

You gotta chill. Talking like a smartass isn't being smug in my culture.

I won't entertain your taunting.

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Source: The cost of Sony’s PlayStation Network outage: $24 billion or $20 million? | VentureBeat



Source: Revenue | Define Revenue at Dictionary.com



Are we purposefully twisting the English language?

So judging by your logic, if I don't buy Sony stock today, and they rise $100 a share tomorrow, does that mean I lost $100?

Wow...



Except that you aren't paying Sony when PSN is down.

Logic, something absent in your entire post. I'm not gonna break down the obvious for you.

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

I won't entertain your taunting.

Logic, something absent in your entire post.

I think it's because your post needs it more. Please don't contradict yourself.

Since you've gone from "blaming" to "revenue", I guess it's drawn out long enough. Honestly, I have nothing against Sony. But I find it funny when you and some people try to defend them to death.

Chill, man. It's over.

[Xblade]

I'm going to assume english isn't your first language.

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[runawayprisoner]

And that is relevant... how?

I don't suppose you've ever learned how to engage a discussion in a way that actually... makes sense?

[Xblade]

Sense? Since when have you had any interest in that?

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Are we purposefully twisting the English language?

So judging by your logic, if I don't buy Sony stock today, and they rise $100 a share tomorrow, does that mean I lost $100?

Wow...

So by your logic, we shall convieniently disregard the cost of the identity theft protection services. 24 billion $ is such a trivial amount anyhow. You know, its possible.........just maybe that these cost can be considered losses. Its also possible, if the moon is aligned just right, that a business would consider lost opportunities to make money as (here is tricky part!) losses!

Maybe.

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

(Pst, I'm letting that "for a couple of weeks" thing go since obviously, it's been... oh wait... a week!)

Two weeks.

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

Sense? Since when have you had any interest in that?

Way before you were born, dear sir.

So by your logic, we shall convieniently disregard the cost of the identity theft protection services. 24 billion $ is such a trivial amount anyhow. You know, its possible.........just maybe that these cost can be considered losses. Its also possible, if the moon is aligned just right, that a business would consider lost opportunities to make money as (here is tricky part!) losses!

What identity theft service? Sony doesn't lose your identity every time PSN is down, so they don't cover identity theft service fees every time PSN is down. They are only covering it because they lost your information, which conveniently brought about the shutdown of PSN. Aren't we talking about PSN?

A business considering lost opportunity? Well, here's a fun fact: we aren't a business.

Like I said, if I don't buy stock today for $50 a share, and then it turns out the day after that I can sell those stocks for $150 a piece, that doesn't mean I lost $100 even if I think it is.

Or what? Is it an actual fact that I will lose $100 a share the next day?

A thought or a consideration is not an actual happening.

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Last edited by runawayprisoner; May 4th, 2011 at 05:02..

[Xblade]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Way before you were born, dear sir.

It is apparent that you lost interest some time ago.

Dear sir.

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

What identity theft service? Sony doesn't lose your identity every time PSN is down, so they don't cover identity theft service fees every time PSN is down. They are only covering it because they lost your information, which conveniently brought about the shutdown of PSN. Aren't we talking about PSN?

PSN has only been down once, wtf are you even talking about?

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

A business considering lost opportunity? Well, here's a fun fact: we aren't a business.

The discussion is about sony.

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Like I said, if I don't buy stock today for $50 a share, and then it turns out the day after that I can sell those stocks for $150 a piece, that doesn't mean I lost $100 even if I think it is.

Or what? Is it an actual fact that I will lose $100 a share the next day?

A thought or a consideration is not an actual happening.

Nothing in life is promised. I know you understand the concept of what I'm trying to communicate, how about you stop playing dumb?

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[Princess Garnet]

Children, play nice, or I'm sending the both of you to your rooms with no desert, and no game consoles for a week!

If I may state one thing myself...

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

You know, its possible.........just maybe that these cost can be considered losses. Its also possible, if the moon is aligned just right, that a business would consider lost opportunities to make money as (here is tricky part!) losses!

I hate how businesses do that. It screams of greed and self entitlement to me, and the gaming industry (and music industry) are especially bad about it. I mean, sure, I sort of see where it's coming from, but how I see it, in order to lose something, you have to first have it. Since they didn't, as I said, it gives off the vibe of self entitlement and greed (the two often go hand in hand it seems). Again, in some cases (such as maybe this one), it can be argued, but I'm speaking more in general here.

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[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by Annoying-Kuriboh

The discussion is about sony.

No, it was first about inadequate compensation. Then it dragged on to blaming. Then you dragged it further to ridiculing. And now we are into costs and losses and business perspectives.

And in fact, the thread isn't even about Sony. It's about PSN being hacked, down, and compromised. This isn't a "we hate/love Sony" thread...

Nothing in life is promised. I know you understand the concept of what I'm trying to communicate, how about you stop playing dumb?

And that is why you can't say that something is lost until it is.

I'm not playing dumb. I'm merely trying to explain a concept that you seem to have a hard time grasping.

Beside that, new information:

We discovered that the intruders had planted a file on one of our Sony Online Entertainment servers named “Anonymous” with the words “We are Legion.”

Source: Sony’s Response to the U.S. House of Representatives – PlayStation Blog

I won't repeat what I said earlier about Sony trying to spin an attack and blame hackers. It's moot.