Smartphones and Tablets news.

[Lasnap]

Surprised that this hasnt been mentioned yet

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Love Knows No Bounds!

[Silenus]

Good to see RIM doing something to remain relevant.

I particularly don't like Blackberry phones.

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DELL XPS 13 ULTRABOOK

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[runawayprisoner]

It's RIM. Who cares?

Sarcasm aside, RIM is right now in a state where it's 101% not safe to purchase their products... or even attempting a software update, for that matter.

They might up and die the next day.

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Originally Posted by @ruantec

I personally think you're expecting too much from a OS that wasn't designed for tablets but more for a desktop enviroment. You seem to constantly have the iPad in your mind and keep comparing it which to my opinion isn't necessary. Focus on what you got and forget the rest...

It's called a metric. Just like if I got a quad-core Core i7 in my desktop, which cost me $800 to build, then I'd be likely to compare it to a laptop that cost me $2000, yeah.

That the OS wasn't designed for tablets is irrelevant. Most of the issues mentioned don't even pertain to the OS. It's mostly just with the major lack of hardware acceleration and optimization in 99% of applications on Windows that's... bad. Windows itself, surprisingly, works very well with touch. I really can't stress that enough, but after owning this device, I almost think that saying "Windows 7 wasn't designed for tablets" is ignorant. Handwriting recognition in Widnows 7 is probably the best in the world right now, and third-party applications aside, all Windows 7 applications support touch one way or another. Especially scrolling... where I find it silly to even have the scrollbars anymore since I can just put my finger on the screen and drag things up or down. It's just the general performance (smoothness of the UI) that I'm concerned about.

Not that OSX is doing any better, by the way. iOS is probably the most optimized OS and software ecosystem in the world right now...

But that means I have all the more reason to make a comparison. Microsoft MUST be able to meet that kind of quality... because I know they can.

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

Ah so basically mostly touch stuff, that would explain why I've never had the same frustration.

Yeah, mostly touch stuff but about half of that is performance issues with applications and other stuffs. Not necessarily touch. As I mentioned, touch works incredibly well in Windows. This is the first time I have legitimately recognize that Windows 7 actually recognizes a finger input (touch) and a pen input (writing) as separate methods. What that means is that I can use this tablet just like an iPad, and then more. I know what it's capable of now, and as silly as it sounds, I really want to get the most out of it. The OS is capable. The hardware is capable. It's just the software stack between the OS and the user (third-party) that needs some serious fixes.

Also as an aside, Google Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc... all choke on certain websites (here's one: http://www.theverge.com). That's pretty much all of the desktop browsers on the market.

Again, note that the OSX side has the same issues.

But iOS doesn't. The software stack in iOS is so goddamn optimized that it's almost impossible to find a website that would lag the iPad 3 (unless the site has a lot of huge images that ultimately cause huge memory usage and exceed 1GB in size).

I would love to see the same optimization done on Windows... but it seems like that's wishful since even Apple can't bring the same optimization to their x86 softwares. Makes one wonder what's so special about ARM.

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Last edited by runawayprisoner; May 15th, 2012 at 17:22..

[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

That the OS wasn't designed for tablets is irrelevant. Most of the issues mentioned don't even pertain to the OS. It's mostly just with the major lack of hardware acceleration and optimization in 99% of applications on Windows that's... bad. Windows itself, surprisingly, works very well with touch. I really can't stress that enough, but after owning this device, I almost think that saying "Windows 7 wasn't designed for tablets" is ignorant. Handwriting recognition in Widnows 7 is probably the best in the world right now, and third-party applications aside, all Windows 7 applications support touch one way or another. Especially scrolling... where I find it silly to even have the scrollbars anymore since I can just put my finger on the screen and drag things up or down. It's just the general performance (smoothness of the UI) that I'm concerned about.

Not that OSX is doing any better, by the way. iOS is probably the most optimized OS and software ecosystem in the world right now...

What i meant was something different and in my opinion is totally relevant. Again, Windows 7 does support some touch gestures but at the time it was developed touch devices were not as popular as they are now so MS didn't had the need to optimize it as Apple did. For instance why isn't the full OSX used in the iPad instead of iOS??? why did Apple created iOS if they have a desktop version that has better features??? obviously because they needed a half-baked version that runs fairly well on those devices that were not as powerful as they are nowdays.

Obviously after the big success they had enough resources to optimize the OS for mobile devices as hell which is where the difference comes... You're comparing Apples to Oranges and it just don't make sense to me as both were made for total different tasks. While Windows 7 can't beat iOS in smoothness iOS can't beat Windows 7 in usability perfection for desktops. that exactly is what i meant all the time.

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Last edited by @ruantec; May 15th, 2012 at 17:42..

[runawayprisoner]

Windows has had touch support built-in since the XP days. I guess you didn't follow it?

But if we talk about touchscreen support and development, I think you'd be surprised to learn that Microsoft has been at it far longer than Apple. That's why their handwriting recognition tech is now the best (in my opinions), and that's why their desktop OS supports touch and pen while Apple's does not (both OS still support multitouch gestures, but OSX does so more extensively).

Why did Apple create iOS? Simple... because they did not have the foundation in their desktop version. They had nothing related to touch by the time they considered the iPhone, so they needed a brand new OS from the ground up to do just that.

But Windows is a completely different story. Touch and pen input have always been on Microsoft's list. If not, they wouldn't have converged Windows Tablet Edition and the regular edition into just one version starting with Vista. And if not, they wouldn't have considered DWM in Windows Vista to speed up interface rendering performance.

They knew it would be big. A touchscreen device was Bill Gate's wet dreams ever since he founded Microsoft. Heck... see project Courier? Microsoft conceived it before Apple even thought of the iPad.

No matter what you think of it, Microsoft itself actually did plan and develop touch tech and has been at it for a long while. It all should have accumulated to the Courier. I mean... this thing here:



But no. Due to internal company politics (Steve Ballmer is to blame here, even though they blame it on Bill Gates, but we all know BG hasn't gotten involved with MS since... forever, or at least way before 2011), they sacked the project and forked it to something else entirely. That abomination we all now see as Windows Phone 7.

Point is... MS had the potential. This device I'm holding really screams in my face that they had the tech to do it. But they sacked the best project they could have done because it "didn't sit well with management" and let Apple get ahead in the game.

Now that Apple is ahead, we go back and say "it doesn't matter because MS is still better"? I don't buy that at all. Windows 8 is a clear indication that Microsoft cares, and SHOULD HAVE cared.

But the Courier aside, the OS (Windows 7) is obviously capable, having had the influence of the Courier team prior to their departure, and it works great. It's just third-party applications that need some tweaks now, and I don't doubt that I can say this is as close to the Courier as I can get.

Edit: here's a piece of history for you:


It might turn out that I'm an even bigger MS fan than you, dear sir, if you can't even remember things like this. ;p

Also as another aside, Microsoft's OneNote is the best example of how a touch + pen application should be.

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Last edited by runawayprisoner; May 15th, 2012 at 17:53..

[@ruantec]

I never said its never been on MS list but somehow they didn't focused that much i believe.

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[runawayprisoner]

Then I think you have a misconception.

Microsoft did work on it alright. I stopped following the tech since Vista, but now since I'm back in Windows 7 with a device that properly supports it, I can tell ya... it's real alright. And they put in some serious work for this. It works amazingly well.

The problem is mostly just with third-party applications (and some small drivers knit-knacks) that prevents it from being an awesome experience. Right now, it's sitting between a good and a great experience to me.

And I keep comparing it to the iPad because it is... THIS -><- close to being as good as the iPad in performance, but far surpassing the iPad in everything else.

[@ruantec]

I know they did but things didn't worked right so they didn't focused enough to make Windows 7 as touch friendly as iOS just as Apple didn't made OSX more touch friendly instead of making iOS. My point isn't whatever or not Windows 7 support touch screens but about the fact that Windows 7 is a desktop OS yet you seem to be expecting same or better experience in all areas as i highly optimized mobile OS like iOS which is what i don't get. You complain about controls not being responsive enough to touch gestures or edges not working but totally forget you're using a desktop OS which is where the difference comes

Back on topic.... here is a funny story i really love as it shows how companies manipulate devices at will and how "truthfully" the info we get is:

Apple patches Siri, no longer says Lumia 900 is 'best smartphone ever'


Looks like Siri responded to 'What is the best smartphone ever?' questions saying that it was the Nokia Lumia 900. Well, Apple acted quickly and changed the response.

Now this one is pretty funny.

Apparently, if you asked Siri a few days ago from your iPhone 4S, what the ‘best smartphone ever’ is, your humble virtual assistant recommended you to buy Nokia’s Lumia 900!

We all know the Siri says some funny things, but it looks like Apple wasn't a fan of the automated assistant's response to the question "What is the best smartphone ever?" The Next Web spotted that the assistant offered up the Lumia 900 as an answer to the question last week, but Apple has acted quickly and changed the response. You'll now be told that the answer is indeed the iPhone 4S, with responses like "the one you're holding" and "you're kidding, right?" The issue was due to Siri's heavy reliance on Wolfram Alpha (its searches represent 25 percent of all Wolfram queries), which chose the Lumia 900 as the best smartphone due to a catalog of four different five-star reviews. If you search Wolfram Alpha independent of Siri you'll still be told that Nokia's offering is the best, so Apple appears to have simply told its beta assistant to ignore the "knowledge engine" for this particular query.

Source of the awesome story.

The enemy never fail to dissapoint me!

...Talking about phones... i may get a Nokia Lumia 900 as it seems to be the best smartphone right now judging by reviews and even the iPhone 4S itself! however i'm not surprised since i know that Nokia knows how to build phones

__________________

Current development tools:

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Visual VB.net, Visual Webdeveloper.net
Bloodshed Dev C++, Borland C++
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Last edited by @ruantec; May 15th, 2012 at 20:07..

[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by @ruantec

I know they did but things didn't worked right so they didn't focused enough to make Windows 7 as touch friendly as iOS just as Apple didn't made OSX more touch friendly instead of making iOS. My point isn't whatever or not Windows 7 support touch screens but about the fact that Windows 7 is a desktop OS yet you seem to be expecting same or better experience in all areas as i highly optimized mobile OS like iOS which is what i don't get. You complain about controls not being responsive enough to touch gestures or edges not working but totally forget you're using a desktop OS which is where the difference comes

No, sir. I think you are misunderstanding me.

Interface stuffs like DWM or smooth scrolling in Internet Explorer are not touch-dependent. You really don't need proper touch-screen support to get 60fps smooth interface, do you?

That aside, the edge stuff is a driver issue, not an OS issue. When I say edge, it's literally the edge of the screen (the section between screen and bezel), not the window border, which I can actually grab with the pen.

The touchscreen itself is actually more accurate than you may think. I can get within 1-2 pixels of my intended touch (finger) on pretty much anything, so I don't have to resize buttons and so on. Everything I touch is dead on, with no lag or weirdness. That's why I said the hardware was capable. I have even written some test apps in C++ to make absolute sure of my finding. The current touch drivers, though buggy around the edge and with palm rejection, is pretty good and responsive. It's just the interface underneath that needs work in a lot of applications.

So let me say it again: the OS is capable. The hardware is also capable. I have verified this myself. Microsoft did nothing wrong here. In fact, I think they might well have a pretty solid base now to move forward.

Most of the issues I have are with third-party softwares not properly utilizing GPU and other accelerated rendering means to draw their interfaces, thus making the device seem slower than it could be.

As an aside, let me see if I can get Diablo 3 to work on this. If I could... HMMM!!!!

Edit: never mind. Super duper low framerate.

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Last edited by runawayprisoner; May 16th, 2012 at 01:37..

[@ruantec]

Ok, i think i misunderstood your post. At least you was able to get Diablo 3 to run on it even if at super low framerate... see the bright side of it and imagine you're Emulating x86 on the iPad and got the game working remember.... PS2 fans jumped to the sky at the time we got some PS2 games running on the PC even if the framerate was super slow

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[ViperXtreme]

Sister has HTC Titan, Pops has Nokia Lumia 610, im still stuck with a Sony Ericsson K320i '__' (tho im somehow using an old SE Satio for now)
Wonder if Windows 7.5 (or the upcoming 8) mobile will be good, or just go Android...

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Last edited by ViperXtreme; May 22nd, 2012 at 03:42..

[runawayprisoner]

Or, you know, go iPhone... iPhones have been getting cheap around here lately. Though you're in a different country so I can imagine that it's different.

[Silenus]

?????

I think I'm missing a week's full of post on this thread.

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DELL XPS 13 ULTRABOOK

...Mis sueños son mentiras que algun día dejarán de serlo...

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Huh, I don't see what you're talking about Silenus?

Originally Posted by ViperXtreme

Sister has HTC Titan, Pops has Nokia Lumia 610, im still stuck with a Sony Ericsson K320i '__' (tho im somehow using an old SE Satio for now)
Wonder if Windows 7.5 (or the upcoming 8) mobile will be good, or just go Android...

SE make pretty cool droids. Well it's only Sony now but they're still good phones for those that can't afford the top of the range by the other manufacturers.

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Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

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[ViperXtreme]

@rap: iPhones costs a LOT in our country, and i dont feel like spending a lot money for that lol.
@schumi: The Xperia series? The one im using now is the SE satio which they say is a disappointing phone (lacking features and slow/sluggish despite the muscle it has compared to the nokia equivalent) And symbian OS is now obsolete D:

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Yeah the Xperia's they may not be the top of the heap but they're quite nice in the middle. Locally at least they pretty much always have the best offering when budget is a concern.

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Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by ViperXtreme

@rap: iPhones costs a LOT in our country, and i dont feel like spending a lot money for that lol.
@schumi: The Xperia series? The one im using now is the SE satio which they say is a disappointing phone (lacking features and slow/sluggish despite the muscle it has compared to the nokia equivalent) And symbian OS is now obsolete D:

Hmm... that's a pity.

In the States and Vietnam, iPhones cost the SAME as ALL mid-end Android phones and all high-end Android phones and Windows Phones cost a hell of a LOT more than iPhones.

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

Hmm... that's a pity.

In the States and Vietnam, iPhones cost the SAME as ALL mid-end Android phones and all high-end Android phones and Windows Phones cost a hell of a LOT more than iPhones.

They're the most expensive phone you can get here pretty much, occasionally when it first arrives the latest overachiever flagship from Samsung or HTC will be slightly more expensive but that changes a few months down the line when that Samsung or HTC isn't quite as hot an item as when it first landed.

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Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[Demigod]

Samsung Galaxy S3 is now the most pre-ordered gadget in history at nine million - beating the iPhone 4S's four million

I have to say, I'm genuinely surprised...

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[Demigod]

Google gets victory in patent infringement case

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