PEOPS DSound 1.09 - repair

[shalma]

Hopkat has a few accuracy experiments (indirectly FF-related)
1- Reset external loop flag after jump
2- 10 APU cycle updates (~10 fps hit from 23 APU)
3- Use Neill's sustain level (retain # accuracy bits)
4- Some scratchy load state improvements
Download spuPeopsSound_109a.7z from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

After that, I'm avoiding exotic FF sounds.
They do weird things like updating ADSR mid-voice. Timing sync stuff that a blargg-style spu would handle.

[the_randomizer]

Don't worry about it This plugin is now one I consider to be the best; thanks for the work!

Nah, the problem's still there, but it's okay. The sound buffer value needs to be changed, if possible (intermittent crackling present). Sof for now, I'll stick to the previous beta build.

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

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Last edited by the_randomizer; December 17th, 2010 at 00:05..

[shalma]

Release 7

> Reset external loop flag after jump
= Probably right, somewhat questionable

+ 10 APU cycle updates
= Runs better

+ Use Neill's sustain level (retain # accuracy bits)
= Minor point

+ Remove scratchy load states
= win32 only

+ ESC-resume will keep sound channels alive
= win32 only

Crackling gone. 10ms buffer updates now. This is the win32 plugin release I've generally wanted all this time.

As DSound will become my primary spu now, I'll be fixing compatibility bugs as I find them over the years.

If you can name the FF sounds to watch out for, maybe one of us will check them out again when we replay months/years later.

Or another dev will pick them up? Never imagined that after 6 years of no real updates the plugin gets an adrenaline boost.

Attached Files

peopsspu109a_r7.7z (218.7 KB, 19 views)

[the_randomizer]

Perhaps I can make some recordings listing all the FF game sound effects (VII to IX).

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[shalma]

Told Hopkat that I'm not interested in working on FF sounds or TOD1 problems (voice synthesizer + other stuff) this year. Or even early next year.

One thing I don't do yet though which she brought up is the external loop address (align to 16 bytes like start). Maybe I'll do that for next release as a safety check (sounds right to me).


Still she would like to try out one more experiment with fmod pitch:
Download spuPeopsSound_109a.7z from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

Her idea is that raw pitch is 16-bits. We clip to 14-bits and modulate the next pitch using a 14-bit value. What if we kept the original 16, fmod, then clip to 14?

You've got the golden ears in this business so naturally your specialty is always welcome.

[the_randomizer]

I honestly have no clue what an external loop address and/or what FMOD does or how it functions...what games are affected the most by this function? I'm fine with testing this. And about the FF sounds? Don't worry about it

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[shalma]

Hopkat handed me a checklist from someone else (an Eternal SPU comparison challenge!). Which must be why her curiosity got stoked again.

Here's a rewrite of her list:

1-Reverb (it's not perfect, I don't care about 100% perfection either)
2-Xenogears (too much noise and loud sound effects?) - this game sounds okay to me but who knows
3-Valkyrie Profile (voices don't sound right?)
4-FF7 / ZANACxZANAC (noise - Eternal wins by default)
5-
FF8 ... Title BGM (Demo), Ragnarok Airship Theme (Hikutei)
FF9 ... Disc3. Hirudagarude airship theme
... The theme of Chrono Cross Boss defeated when using Chrono (BGM59 No.)
Ending BGM Dragon Quest 7 ...
Hisashi Tooru battle with Suikoden 2 BGM (battered cymbals) 
6-Tales of Destiny (sound meter / volume pitch?)
7-SO2 song No.42 (tone?)
8-VP song No.9 (tone?)
9-ff7 (rock throwing guy? dirty noise?) - I really don't remember this at all
10-TOD se domo (SE No.17, 25) (japan edition only?)
11-palais gun + piano (game?)
12-Unjamarami guitar sound (reverb, game?)

Oh boy. I'm not going to turn on pcsx or epsxe - fear of the missus.

And I don't recognize enough of the problems for the games I'm familiar with.


@the_randomizer
Can you check out some of these? Some songs look to have those sharp details. Best to use r7 since that's official beta.

Some errors could also be the linear / gaussian jump. It makes a bigger difference sometimes with Xenogears.

[the_randomizer]

Unfortunately, I only have some of those games in my possession, but I do have Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, Chrono Cross and Star Ocean 2. These games are the ones I personally think are affected the most, or rather, use unorthodox algorithms for its sound effects. Heck, Square Enix has been known to use weird SPU methods, even for its SNES games. I can certainly take a look at the FF games. BTW, what's song #42 on Star Ocean?

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[shalma]

Maybe the original writer meant sound library #42? I'm not sure where the list came from but it's very specific. :o

From what I've heard about the TOD of spectrum analyzer, we need a new plugin that actually maps out the frequency envelopes (peak-zero-peak). Seriously hard work unless you cheat by using a bunch of sine math (very expensive).

So it'll end up being DSound++ instead of the next-gen of spu plugins.

I appreciate any help given on the interpolated output quality.

[the_randomizer]

Here are some sound effects from Final Fantasy VII (Fire 3, Bolt 3, Ice 3, Bio 2, and enemy attack sounds) First half or so is from the recent DSound build and the other from Eternal SPU 1.50 beta 2 (sorry about the volume, the DSound wasn't turned up all the way). FFVII_sounds_Dsound_and_Eternal.mp3 - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com
I'll update this post with sounds throughout the day.

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[shalma]

Got the report - FF7 spells use the noise channel to change the normal voice sound. Enemy attacks also use noise.
ex. When the player starts casting, noise is on. Then its a freaky amount of on/off/reverb/noise combos.

At times, no noise comes out which might be why the actual spell doesn't come out as dirty or deep.

So FF8-FF9 probably do the same too.


TOD report - voice analyzer comes out normally. SE No.17, 25 also sound about right (pitch clipping). XA analyzer is broken.


It'll take time but now I know what's wrong.


EDIT:
I'm positive it's the noise. Listened to a dramatically slowed down playback for Fire3 - right when the spell kicks in, DSound gives out 2 tall clicks. Eternal shoots out 2 pillars of foggy noise.

No time estimate on when this will be fixed sadly.

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Last edited by shalma; December 18th, 2010 at 21:01..

[the_randomizer]

Originally Posted by shalma

Got the report - FF7 spells use the noise channel to change the normal voice sound. Enemy attacks also use noise.
ex. When the player starts casting, noise is on. Then its a freaky amount of on/off/reverb/noise combos.

At times, no noise comes out which might be why the actual spell doesn't come out as dirty or deep.

So FF8-FF9 probably do the same too.


TOD report - voice analyzer comes out normally. SE No.17, 25 also sound about right (pitch clipping). XA analyzer is broken.


It'll take time but now I know what's wrong.


EDIT:
I'm positive it's the noise. Listened to a dramatically slowed down playback for Fire3 - right when the spell kicks in, DSound gives out 2 tall clicks. Eternal shoots out 2 pillars of foggy noise.

No time estimate on when this will be fixed sadly.

Wait, so you pinpointed the freaky-deeky SPU functions in the FF games? Oh, and take as much time as you need

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[shalma]

Release 8

+ External loop address = align 16 bytes
+ Allow interpolation on fmod channel

Not the awaited noise fix. Nope.

Just adds some extra interpolation for some music (ff7 violins) or sound effects (Xenogears).


Neither of us have an idea how everyone else managed to read out the noise volume (not the same as the adsr output register). Pete's algorithm is not right but works 50x better than anything we tried out.

Eternal is said to have the perfect noise algorithm. And pSX. And likely Xebra. Reverse-engineering their source code is not workable on my end. That's out (and probably adds conflicts too).


Someone pointed out Xebra's doc:
NYO$B%C%H$d$m$&$<(J

That might be the correct formula. Making it work in DSound hasn't happened either.


Where does this leave current unofficial DSound maintainers Hopkat + shalma? For this week, a concrete wall.

Someone needs to help out (actually writing working code into DSound); that may be the only solution for a long-long while.

Talking about Pink Noise, M-random number generators, Perlin noise means nothing to me - I don't have the skillset to make FF7 Fire3 or FF9 MegaFlare come out something decent. And adding someone else's fancy algorithm has so far a more negative effect than just using Pete's.


Basic summary: we need help. Or this noise channel ain't going to be fixed. Until a miracle occurs.

Sorry.

Attached Files

peopsspu109a_r8.7z (204.9 KB, 16 views)

[the_randomizer]

Maybe the person who coded the SPU2-X plugin for PCSX2? He might be able to give some insight because, as of now, it's the best SPU plugin for PS2. If I'm not mistaken, I believe his name is Air on the PCSX2 forums.

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[jvhellraiser]

Hi i know this is not in your point of view but can you fix this plugin so that i'll work nice with Mortal kombat trilogy is that it has music but there sound missing like the main song in character select screen or at the begining when the letter come out is this is possible?

[the_randomizer]

Wait till these major bugs are fixed first, then I'm sure he'll consider looking into it.

__________________
CPU - 3rd Gen Core i5 3570 3.4 GHz (3.8 GHz Turbo Boost)
Extensions - MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, EIST,
AVX, Hyper Threading, Intel VT-x, AES-NI, Turbo Boost 2.0, TXT, Smart Cache
GPU - MSI GeForce GTX 660 2 GB GDDR5
RAM - 8192MB DDR3 SDRAM 1333
OS - Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
HDD - Western Digital 1 TB

"If you call up your local hardware store and ask them how you can put tractor tires onto a 1990 Honda, well there's gonna be some laughter, a visit from the cops, maybe a psychiatric nurse." - Red Green

[jvhellraiser]

Ok thanks by the way i have some games too if can i can help maybe don't know much but here are the games i own:

Ace Combat 2
Ace Combat 3
Alundra
Blood Omen Legacy of kain
Breath of Fire III
Castlevania SOTN
Dino crisis
Final Fantasy 7
Lunar Silver Star Story
Megaman X4
Megaman X5
Megaman X6
Mortal Kombat Triology
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Wild Arms
Tales of Destiny

this is all the games i own.

[shalma]

Hopkat had a dream last night about how to fix the noise channel. It might actually work but takes lots-lots of manual ear work.

Basic idea is to use normal white noise + logarithmic frequency curve. First results show that the pitch comes (closer) to Eternal. The texture of the noise is passable. Not good, just passable.

So you might get another release today. Oo


Mortal Kombat Trilogy - noise comes first. Then maybe we'll check it out.

[jvhellraiser]

thank you shalma can wait for the new release!!

[shalma]

Release 9

+ Noise emulation (pitch + white noise)
= Not accurate but works

Only tested with some FF7 spells. So still WIP per se. Fire3 sounds surprisingly good. Maybe even better than Eternal with the interpolation.

If you like it, give your thanks to the girlie Hopkat. She fine-tuned everything to a certain degree. And since PS2 seems to use the same # of noise frequency bits, it might help them out too.

Gotta go. Next release will be any additional noise fixes and Mortal Kombat Trilogy hopefully.

Neither of us have time to add this to PCSX-r dfsound. Maybe later this week or next.

Attached Files

peopsspu109a_r9.7z (208.0 KB, 64 views)