What kind of upgrade is most beneficial for emulation?

jonzza · August 12th, 2008, 16:35

Just wondering whether there is a kind of upgrade (processor speed, RAM or graphics card) which would benefit emulation performance the most? Obviously having decent specs all round is the best option but unfortunately not the kindest on the wallet, so at the moment I am only able to upgrade one aspect of my PC.

The reason I ask is that I think I read somewhere that most emulators can only make a certain amount of use out of a video card and after that its purely down to processor power to increase performance. I can understand that it is probably different for each emulator but say I wanted to maximise performance in PJ64, NullDC and SSF which part of my PC would I benefit the most from upgrading? Bear in mind that this is a budget PC built soley for emulation so other kinds of gaming are not of concern...

My specs:

Athlon X2 3800+ Processor
Radeon X1250 integrated graphics
1GB Ram

Initially I only planned to be able to achieve up to PSX level emulation at decent speeds but seeing that I can actually get fullspeed in many DC games I wanted to see if I could maximise this potential without spending a huge chunk of money getting the PC up to actual gaming standards.

I'm thinking I could probably afford to either get an AMD X2 5400+ processor (or 6000+ if I can sell my current processor as its only had a few months light usage) or a Nvidia 9500GT/ ATI 3850 and then put another stick of 1GB ram in a bit further down the line as it is pretty cheap.

I am not really interested in saving up to buy components as I've already spent as much as I really wanted to on this PC, I'm just wondering if a little extra could boost performance significantly or not...

Anyway, any input is appreciated!

FireFLower · August 12th, 2008, 16:49

Well... You won't really like it. At this moment graphic card is not so big deal in PCSX2 but its more depended on CPU. Like my current PCSX2 configuration uses 58-100% of 3.51GHz Quad processor (all threads)

So... Buy new pc... It ain't that expensive if you buy it from right place.

- Asus P5Q (80-100€)
- Intel E7200 (100€ oc able over 4GHz with good air cooler)
- HD4850 or HD4870 (140-180€)
- 2x2GB cheapeat DDR2 800MHz memory (don't buy 1066MHz it doesn't increase system perfomance at all) (60€)
- 640GB Western Digital (65€)
- own old case and atleast 400-450W PSU (Sonata III + 500W bundle) (20A to 12V line is good) (0€ - 100€)
- Old XP or buy Vista Home Prerium 64b (0-100€)
- Cheap DVD-RW drive (20-25€)

Notice if you live in germany or in USA parts are much cheaper than these euro prices in Finland. We have 22% more price on them thanks to tax

jonzza · August 12th, 2008, 17:12

Thanks for your advice but i'm not really interested in getting PCSX2 working, I know that would require a significant amount of money!

Basically I'm just wondering whether, with my current specs in mind, I would see a decent return of performance in NullDC, PJ64 and SSF if i invested a bit more money into my emulation PC and got a better processor or graphics card? If I wouldn't see a decent increase in performance then I'll just save my money for something else (something probably more necessary than a PC upgrade

) and be happy playing near perfect PSX, SNES, N64 etc games and also the few DC games I can get to work fullspeed

gamefreak94 · August 12th, 2008, 17:25

CPU matters most, get an Athlon 4600+ or above, it'll help a lot in PCSX2 and also other emulators.

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StriderVM · August 12th, 2008, 17:35

Unless I'm wrong though. I remember SSF, PJ64 and NullDC running full speed on my rig.... Which before is a :

Athlon64 X2 3800
GeForce 7600GS gDDR3
512MB DDR2 RAM

So yeah, for those emus, that specs should be enough for full speed, if not something is configured badly.

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**Hard core Rikki** · August 12th, 2008, 19:11

Processor is pretty much the only real guaranteed "universal" upgrade, for emulation. GPU mostly just supports specific rendering extensions, and relieves the processor from gfx-related calulations.

Sure, the better the gpu, the more if can help free cycles from the processor, but generally, graphic card doesnt matter THAT much, as long as it (and the rest of the hardware) do not bottleneck emulation (as with, low ram amount, slow bus, no hardware dx9 support, slow cas times...)

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jonzza · August 12th, 2008, 19:25

Thanks for the advice everyone, i guess i'll give the processor an upgrade

I can actually run most things in PJ64 at fullspeed, its just the odd game like Perfect Dark or Goldeneye (especially in multiplayer) that lags when I use the graphic enhancing plugins (Glide64 in this case, the others i tried dont agree with my system for some reason). Do you guys think a processor upgrade could eliminate this lag then (i've done a lot of messing around with plug-in settings to no avail)?

Zeroextreme · August 13th, 2008, 05:11

Personally, I think the best upgrades (in terms of performance) is always Cpu and Ram upgrades, mostly ram. Granted, you need a powerful cpu if you even want to attempt ps2 emulations with above average results, but if its for n64 related gameplay, simply buying a new graphics card, so shoving another GB of Ram in you computer will due just fine.

Frankly, you can buy a decent gpu and ram for about the same amount you'd spend on just the cpu alone.

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skoreanime · August 13th, 2008, 05:37

...

Ummm, no. Unless he's running Vista, 1GB is sufficient for those emus and XP. jonzza, you'll see a vast improvement once you replace that GPU first IMO. Your CPU is sufficient for your chosen emus, but I'm pretty sure it's that GPU that's bottlenecking you.

jonzza · August 13th, 2008, 09:38

Ok so i'm a bit undecided now,

Here's the specs for my current graphics card:

Quote:

ATI Radeon™ Xpress 1250 (for Intel) -Specifications

3D Acceleration Features
3D Texture support, including projective 3D textures.
Complete 3D primitive support: points, lines, triangles, lists, strips and quadrilaterals and BLTs with Z compare.
Anti-aliasing using multi-sampling algorithm with support for 2, 4, and 6 samples.
New generation rendering engine provides top 3D performance.
Support for OpenGL format for Indirect Vertices in Vertex Walker.
Full DirectX® 9.0 support (Vertex Shader version 2.0 and Pixel Shader version 2.0)
Support for up to 512b per pixel formats (4 color case).
2D Acceleration Features
Highly-optimized 128-bit engine, capable of processing multiple pixels per clock.
Hardware acceleration for ClearType font rendering.
Game acceleration including support for Microsoft's DirectDraw: Double Buffering, Virtual Sprites, Transparent Blit, and Masked Blit.
Supports a maximum resolution of 2048x1536 @ 32bpp (driver-limited).

So looking at this do you think the GPU could be bottlenecking my performance? I thought since it had Full Dx 9 support it shouldn't really be a problem but i guess it is integrated so it's never going to be amazing...

If I did go for the new graphics card i'd really need to get a new PSU (current one is only a stock 300w) aswell so i'd probably only have about £40 to play with. Do you think, with this amount of money, I could get a decent enough card to significantly increase performance?

Borisz · August 13th, 2008, 11:04

Full dx9 support only means that it runs games, it doesnt mean it runs them well. Onboard is meant to give picture, not performance - the only relatively good onboard video I know of is the AMD 780G (especially since you can double its performance with a hybrid crossfire card).

For a low-power videocard, I'd recommend a radeon 3650 (or maybe a 4650 when it comes out). It's a notably low power card, so it may just work with your 300w psu, provided the psu is not some noname brand (I had a quality 300w that performed better then a noname 400w once). I know for a fact that it works good with pcsx2, since its the card I have. As long as you don't use AA in zerogs or increase the native resolution in pcsx2, it will not bottleneck it.

for cpu however, pcsx2 can tax even the newest, overclocked intel C2 quadcores. Your AMD 3800 x2 can maybe run Disgaea at fullspeed only, with a lot of slowdown on the bigger special attacks. (I had that exact cpu on my old computer, it sucks).

As for SSF, the 3800 x2 runs most games fine but not all. Games that push the Saturn will run extremely slow, VF2 was running at maybe 30fps on that cpu for me. The author noted that his last Athlon test machine was a 4800+ and even that had slowdowns on Thunderforce V. The gpu does not matter for this emu, it would run fine on a geforce 4 mx.

So to answer the topic title, get a new computer with at least a Core 2 Duo. Or wait a few months for the Nehalem, according to current benchmarks it will leave the Core 2 in the dust. But, it will also cost that much more.

August 12th, 2008, 16:35	#1
jonzza Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: uk Posts: 16	What kind of upgrade is most beneficial for emulation? Just wondering whether there is a kind of upgrade (processor speed, RAM or graphics card) which would benefit emulation performance the most? Obviously having decent specs all round is the best option but unfortunately not the kindest on the wallet, so at the moment I am only able to upgrade one aspect of my PC. The reason I ask is that I think I read somewhere that most emulators can only make a certain amount of use out of a video card and after that its purely down to processor power to increase performance. I can understand that it is probably different for each emulator but say I wanted to maximise performance in PJ64, NullDC and SSF which part of my PC would I benefit the most from upgrading? Bear in mind that this is a budget PC built soley for emulation so other kinds of gaming are not of concern... My specs: Athlon X2 3800+ Processor Radeon X1250 integrated graphics 1GB Ram Initially I only planned to be able to achieve up to PSX level emulation at decent speeds but seeing that I can actually get fullspeed in many DC games I wanted to see if I could maximise this potential without spending a huge chunk of money getting the PC up to actual gaming standards. I'm thinking I could probably afford to either get an AMD X2 5400+ processor (or 6000+ if I can sell my current processor as its only had a few months light usage) or a Nvidia 9500GT/ ATI 3850 and then put another stick of 1GB ram in a bit further down the line as it is pretty cheap. I am not really interested in saving up to buy components as I've already spent as much as I really wanted to on this PC, I'm just wondering if a little extra could boost performance significantly or not... Anyway, any input is appreciated!

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August 12th, 2008, 16:49	#2
FireFLower Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 66	Well... You won't really like it. At this moment graphic card is not so big deal in PCSX2 but its more depended on CPU. Like my current PCSX2 configuration uses 58-100% of 3.51GHz Quad processor (all threads) So... Buy new pc... It ain't that expensive if you buy it from right place. - Asus P5Q (80-100€) - Intel E7200 (100€ oc able over 4GHz with good air cooler) - HD4850 or HD4870 (140-180€) - 2x2GB cheapeat DDR2 800MHz memory (don't buy 1066MHz it doesn't increase system perfomance at all) (60€) - 640GB Western Digital (65€) - own old case and atleast 400-450W PSU (Sonata III + 500W bundle) (20A to 12V line is good) (0€ - 100€) - Old XP or buy Vista Home Prerium 64b (0-100€) - Cheap DVD-RW drive (20-25€) Notice if you live in germany or in USA parts are much cheaper than these euro prices in Finland. We have 22% more price on them thanks to tax

August 12th, 2008, 17:12	#3
jonzza Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: uk Posts: 16	Thanks for your advice but i'm not really interested in getting PCSX2 working, I know that would require a significant amount of money! Basically I'm just wondering whether, with my current specs in mind, I would see a decent return of performance in NullDC, PJ64 and SSF if i invested a bit more money into my emulation PC and got a better processor or graphics card? If I wouldn't see a decent increase in performance then I'll just save my money for something else (something probably more necessary than a PC upgrade ) and be happy playing near perfect PSX, SNES, N64 etc games and also the few DC games I can get to work fullspeed

August 12th, 2008, 17:25	#4
gamefreak94 Registered Anime Hater Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Karachi, Pakistan Posts: 8,678	CPU matters most, get an Athlon 4600+ or above, it'll help a lot in PCSX2 and also other emulators. __________________ "Don't worry about what people think. They don't do it very often." - Anonymous

August 12th, 2008, 17:35	#5
StriderVM Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Philippines Posts: 2,849	Unless I'm wrong though. I remember SSF, PJ64 and NullDC running full speed on my rig.... Which before is a : Athlon64 X2 3800 GeForce 7600GS gDDR3 512MB DDR2 RAM So yeah, for those emus, that specs should be enough for full speed, if not something is configured badly. __________________

August 12th, 2008, 19:11	#6
Hard core Rikki Moving into the beat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Perpetual Hawaii Posts: 11,297	Processor is pretty much the only real guaranteed "universal" upgrade, for emulation. GPU mostly just supports specific rendering extensions, and relieves the processor from gfx-related calulations. Sure, the better the gpu, the more if can help free cycles from the processor, but generally, graphic card doesnt matter THAT much, as long as it (and the rest of the hardware) do not bottleneck emulation (as with, low ram amount, slow bus, no hardware dx9 support, slow cas times...) __________________ deviantART \| Blog \| VBA-M \| GeneralEmu \| XTemu \| FMVTool2 \| @ES \| Shendo new NGemu toolbar http://ngemu.ourtoolbar.com

August 12th, 2008, 19:25	#7
jonzza Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: uk Posts: 16	Thanks for the advice everyone, i guess i'll give the processor an upgrade I can actually run most things in PJ64 at fullspeed, its just the odd game like Perfect Dark or Goldeneye (especially in multiplayer) that lags when I use the graphic enhancing plugins (Glide64 in this case, the others i tried dont agree with my system for some reason). Do you guys think a processor upgrade could eliminate this lag then (i've done a lot of messing around with plug-in settings to no avail)?

August 13th, 2008, 05:11	#8
Zeroextreme The Ultimate Drunk Join Date: May 2008 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 39	Personally, I think the best upgrades (in terms of performance) is always Cpu and Ram upgrades, mostly ram. Granted, you need a powerful cpu if you even want to attempt ps2 emulations with above average results, but if its for n64 related gameplay, simply buying a new graphics card, so shoving another GB of Ram in you computer will due just fine. Frankly, you can buy a decent gpu and ram for about the same amount you'd spend on just the cpu alone. __________________ "Anything Worth Doing, Is Worth Overdoing." Compaq Presario Desktop, AMD Sempron 1.99Ghz Processor, Nvidia Geforce 8500 GT 512 MB, 20x DVD-RAM, 600 HDD, Windows XP Service Package 2.

August 13th, 2008, 05:37	#9
skoreanime Your resident reaper... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 6,031	... Ummm, no. Unless he's running Vista, 1GB is sufficient for those emus and XP. jonzza, you'll see a vast improvement once you replace that GPU first IMO. Your CPU is sufficient for your chosen emus, but I'm pretty sure it's that GPU that's bottlenecking you.

August 13th, 2008, 11:04	#11
Borisz Vanned Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: dot hu Posts: 1,327	Full dx9 support only means that it runs games, it doesnt mean it runs them well. Onboard is meant to give picture, not performance - the only relatively good onboard video I know of is the AMD 780G (especially since you can double its performance with a hybrid crossfire card). For a low-power videocard, I'd recommend a radeon 3650 (or maybe a 4650 when it comes out). It's a notably low power card, so it may just work with your 300w psu, provided the psu is not some noname brand (I had a quality 300w that performed better then a noname 400w once). I know for a fact that it works good with pcsx2, since its the card I have. As long as you don't use AA in zerogs or increase the native resolution in pcsx2, it will not bottleneck it. for cpu however, pcsx2 can tax even the newest, overclocked intel C2 quadcores. Your AMD 3800 x2 can maybe run Disgaea at fullspeed only, with a lot of slowdown on the bigger special attacks. (I had that exact cpu on my old computer, it sucks). As for SSF, the 3800 x2 runs most games fine but not all. Games that push the Saturn will run extremely slow, VF2 was running at maybe 30fps on that cpu for me. The author noted that his last Athlon test machine was a 4800+ and even that had slowdowns on Thunderforce V. The gpu does not matter for this emu, it would run fine on a geforce 4 mx. So to answer the topic title, get a new computer with at least a Core 2 Duo. Or wait a few months for the Nehalem, according to current benchmarks it will leave the Core 2 in the dust. But, it will also cost that much more.