The il/legality of downloading games

TechnoHippy · August 8th, 2008, 20:46

I was always of the belief that it was okay to download a game providing you own an original copy, like only legally being allowed a copy of a PS bios on your PC if you own an original console. But having read a few threads on a few different forums I am now not so sure.

I own about 50 PS1+2 titles and while I am fully capable of playing them on my consoles, I prefer to use my PC as I tend to be doing other things at the same time. I have tried copying the discs but whenever I enable Read sub channel I get read errors and copying fails. If it is 100% illegal to download copies of games that others have made can you:
Tell me what program and settings to use to copy PS1 (and some PS2) games with my LG HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B or,
What dvd-rw I should buy for this purpose. I am not particularly worried about burning the games to disc but would like the functionality (i assume as u need a drive capable of reading sub channel u would also need one capable of writing sub channel?).

**ShendoXT** · August 8th, 2008, 20:55

Yes it is illegal as the copy you are downloading was not made of the disc you purchased.

As for making images check out this ISO making guide.

TechnoHippy · August 9th, 2008, 01:40

Okay. Thanks for the reply. Seems silly to me though as the bios was not copied from my PS1 but that is legal? and if I downloaded a pal copy of a game I own it should be the same as if I copied it myself. Ho-hum

I followed the link you supplied and have managed to make backups with Alcohol 120% so thankyou, problem solved.

BIG THUMBS UP

lastgen · August 9th, 2008, 03:40

Laws are written by lawyers and for lawyers, and vary from region to region. Downloading a copy of something you already own is legal in some parts of the world. But on this message board we must observe US law, where such activities are not legal.

In fact, according to some interpretations of US law, bringing your PS1 to a friend, and having him dump the bios for you, is against the law.

I have some choice words to describe people who try to enforce that interpretation, but complaining about the law on this message board isn't going to get it changed...

Bubbafat · August 9th, 2008, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastgen

But on this message board we must observe US law, where such activities are not legal.

Darn us americans

__________________

Phil · August 9th, 2008, 06:24

we have hot women. so its all good in my book.

but i always play using the cds

__________________

Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others

Squall-Leonhart · August 10th, 2008, 18:01

Quote:

Okay. Thanks for the reply. Seems silly to me though as the bios was not copied from my PS1 but that is legal?

BAN!.

actually, since the serial number printed on each game, is different, the copy you warezed, is not the same as the copy you own.

TechnoHippy · August 11th, 2008, 00:35

Any idea how the laws stand in England? I've tried googling it but no luck.

dontsurf · August 11th, 2008, 01:45

Under UK law the reproduction or transferral to other media of any copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright owner is strictly prohibited.

Added to which, under the same Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988, any software which would allow you to circumvent the encryption on a PSX disc would also mean you're breaking the law. So strictly speaking, if you can't play them straight from the disc, then you can't play them at all.

TechnoHippy · August 11th, 2008, 14:59

Thanks dontsurf, but I thought the laws were updated a while ago or was that only in the pipeline or only to do with transfering legally owned music files eg transfer CD to MP3 or visa versa. And is copying the bios from a ps1 illegal aswell as I've just sent off for a LM317LZ and the resistors to build a Playsaver to dump the bios from my PS1 to a: keep this forum happy and b: Have fun (soldering iron+pc=fun)

*slaps Squall* again
I did not warez any game, I own them and have been playing them from disc but wanted to play from image files as it's easier than rummaging through discs.

dontsurf · August 11th, 2008, 15:31

No, that was just a proposal to amend the Act to allow that. You still can't legally transfer music from CD to hard drive or iPod, but the BPI have backed a clause to allow it. No one knows yet what form this clause would take, if it would include computer games or films too or if it would allow people to transfer works across mediums more than once, or if such a clause would only make it legal to transfer works across mediums from the date of the amendment, or if it would be wholly retrospective.

Copying a BIOS is indeed illegal, as that BIOS is Sony's copyrighted software program, and you would be transferring it across mediums. I'm not entirely sure, however, if copying a BIOS would also be considered circumvention of copy protection, if the BIOS was programmed into the chip in such a way as to prevent you from removing it. The Messiah was banned and Sony won the court case because it allowed the user to circumvent the region coding, but I can't remember if that was on the disc or what.

psychodude · August 11th, 2008, 15:32

Downloading software is by definition always illegal in most countries, since software doesn't have the home copy 'bypass' which music and movies have making it legal to download them (even if you don't own a copy for some countries). Software is a different story, where a backup for home use is tolerated but tends to be against the law. That includes dumping PS bios', so whether you download them or even dump it from your own PS you're making an illegal copy no matter what.

The laws differ a bit per country, but I believe that in the entire EU the stance on software copying is similar making it in the UK as well illegal to copy your PS bios to your PC.

NinjaOptimus · August 11th, 2008, 16:31

@TechnoHippy,
I personally think if you've a BIOS file of teh same model as the Console you own, they you'll be ok. Of course lawyers can make up a thousand charges against you even if you sneeze so I'd suggest just to to trust you honest being.

And if making ISOs is illegal in your region, just use the original disk as someone above suggested.

__________________
My Time Machine: C2D e6750 2.66GHz, 4x 1GB DDR2 RAM, GMA3100 graphics

Guide to playing PS2 games with PCSX2 easily on your PC

TechnoHippy · August 11th, 2008, 23:48

Thanks for your replies everyone. Wasn't really expecting much of a reply but I got everything and more. However, nothing that you said could of stopped me from playing my old games on my PC; but now I know wether I was considered right or wrong with what was doing. 'vive la resistance'
And thanks to the USA members. I will do my utmost to stay within US law in this forum.

August 8th, 2008, 20:46	#1
TechnoHippy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 22	The il/legality of downloading games I was always of the belief that it was okay to download a game providing you own an original copy, like only legally being allowed a copy of a PS bios on your PC if you own an original console. But having read a few threads on a few different forums I am now not so sure. I own about 50 PS1+2 titles and while I am fully capable of playing them on my consoles, I prefer to use my PC as I tend to be doing other things at the same time. I have tried copying the discs but whenever I enable Read sub channel I get read errors and copying fails. If it is 100% illegal to download copies of games that others have made can you: Tell me what program and settings to use to copy PS1 (and some PS2) games with my LG HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B or, What dvd-rw I should buy for this purpose. I am not particularly worried about burning the games to disc but would like the functionality (i assume as u need a drive capable of reading sub channel u would also need one capable of writing sub channel?).

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August 8th, 2008, 20:55	#2
ShendoXT Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 4,544	Yes it is illegal as the copy you are downloading was not made of the disc you purchased. As for making images check out this ISO making guide. __________________ Shendo's software blog Core i5 2400 3.1 Ghz \| ASRock H67M \| GTX460 768Mb \| 8GB DDR3 1333 \| 1500 Gb HDD Grundig VLC 7121 C (1080p) 32" \| Razer DeathAdder \| Logitech G110 \| Windows 7 x64 Don't PM or ask me about VMP-MCR conversions. I will ignore you if you do.

August 9th, 2008, 01:40	#3
TechnoHippy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 22	Okay. Thanks for the reply. Seems silly to me though as the bios was not copied from my PS1 but that is legal? and if I downloaded a pal copy of a game I own it should be the same as if I copied it myself. Ho-hum I followed the link you supplied and have managed to make backups with Alcohol 120% so thankyou, problem solved. BIG THUMBS UP

August 9th, 2008, 03:40	#4
lastgen Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 80	Laws are written by lawyers and for lawyers, and vary from region to region. Downloading a copy of something you already own is legal in some parts of the world. But on this message board we must observe US law, where such activities are not legal. In fact, according to some interpretations of US law, bringing your PS1 to a friend, and having him dump the bios for you, is against the law. I have some choice words to describe people who try to enforce that interpretation, but complaining about the law on this message board isn't going to get it changed...

August 9th, 2008, 06:24	#6
Phil 339.9 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 14,777	we have hot women. so its all good in my book. but i always play using the cds __________________ Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others

August 11th, 2008, 00:35	#8
TechnoHippy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 22	Any idea how the laws stand in England? I've tried googling it but no luck.

August 11th, 2008, 01:45	#9
dontsurf Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK Posts: 3	Under UK law the reproduction or transferral to other media of any copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright owner is strictly prohibited. Added to which, under the same Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988, any software which would allow you to circumvent the encryption on a PSX disc would also mean you're breaking the law. So strictly speaking, if you can't play them straight from the disc, then you can't play them at all.

August 11th, 2008, 14:59	#10
TechnoHippy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 22	Thanks dontsurf, but I thought the laws were updated a while ago or was that only in the pipeline or only to do with transfering legally owned music files eg transfer CD to MP3 or visa versa. And is copying the bios from a ps1 illegal aswell as I've just sent off for a LM317LZ and the resistors to build a Playsaver to dump the bios from my PS1 to a: keep this forum happy and b: Have fun (soldering iron+pc=fun) slaps Squall again I did not warez any game, I own them and have been playing them from disc but wanted to play from image files as it's easier than rummaging through discs.

August 11th, 2008, 15:31	#11
dontsurf Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK Posts: 3	No, that was just a proposal to amend the Act to allow that. You still can't legally transfer music from CD to hard drive or iPod, but the BPI have backed a clause to allow it. No one knows yet what form this clause would take, if it would include computer games or films too or if it would allow people to transfer works across mediums more than once, or if such a clause would only make it legal to transfer works across mediums from the date of the amendment, or if it would be wholly retrospective. Copying a BIOS is indeed illegal, as that BIOS is Sony's copyrighted software program, and you would be transferring it across mediums. I'm not entirely sure, however, if copying a BIOS would also be considered circumvention of copy protection, if the BIOS was programmed into the chip in such a way as to prevent you from removing it. The Messiah was banned and Sony won the court case because it allowed the user to circumvent the region coding, but I can't remember if that was on the disc or what.

August 11th, 2008, 15:32	#12
psychodude Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 58	Downloading software is by definition always illegal in most countries, since software doesn't have the home copy 'bypass' which music and movies have making it legal to download them (even if you don't own a copy for some countries). Software is a different story, where a backup for home use is tolerated but tends to be against the law. That includes dumping PS bios', so whether you download them or even dump it from your own PS you're making an illegal copy no matter what. The laws differ a bit per country, but I believe that in the entire EU the stance on software copying is similar making it in the UK as well illegal to copy your PS bios to your PC.

August 11th, 2008, 16:31	#13
NinjaOptimus Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 18	@TechnoHippy, I personally think if you've a BIOS file of teh same model as the Console you own, they you'll be ok. Of course lawyers can make up a thousand charges against you even if you sneeze so I'd suggest just to to trust you honest being. And if making ISOs is illegal in your region, just use the original disk as someone above suggested. __________________ My Time Machine: C2D e6750 2.66GHz, 4x 1GB DDR2 RAM, GMA3100 graphics Guide to playing PS2 games with PCSX2 easily on your PC

August 11th, 2008, 23:48	#14
TechnoHippy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 22	Thanks for your replies everyone. Wasn't really expecting much of a reply but I got everything and more. However, nothing that you said could of stopped me from playing my old games on my PC; but now I know wether I was considered right or wrong with what was doing. 'vive la resistance' And thanks to the USA members. I will do my utmost to stay within US law in this forum.