nullDC Project is over, at least my part in it - Page 7

urbanman2004 · January 18th, 2013, 19:47

@ trickytree: thanks for your continued contributions

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AerosolSP · January 23rd, 2013, 05:24

I spent a few minutes recovering my account to post this.

I don't want you to work on NullDC anymore, drk||raziel. I don't want you to work on increasing compatability or accuracy or any of the brunt work. Just clean it up and document it. That's all I want, literally.

I'm 23 years old and I'm getting married next month. I've been through my fair share of ****, so I totally understand the "I don't have time" remarks. I don't have time for my own personal hobbies, and I don't feel right begging you to make NullDC any better than it already is. So just clean it up and document it whenever you have the time, so that I, and others, can try to learn from it. I'm not a programmer but if there's any grunt work you want done, you can always shoot me a line. Anything I can do to get my feet wet, you know?

Thanks for all the fish, bro.

PsyMan · January 23rd, 2013, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AerosolSP

I'm not a programmer

There's your first problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AerosolSP

Thanks for all the fish, bro.

You won't learn about programing nor emulation by looking at the source code of an emulator. When it comes to the stuff you need to know this is step 4, not step 1.

1. Learn the languages and APIs involved (c/asm/java/d3d/ogl/whatever)
2. Learn about the hardware involved (x86/arm/sh)
3. Learn about emulation techniques and such, preferably by making your own emulator amongst other things
4. Look at someone else's emu and compare notes <-- You are here
5. ???
6. Profit!

Now that you know, you can catch me some fish. I'm too lazy to catch my own... I might even send drk some.

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AerosolSP · January 23rd, 2013, 05:53

I'm also interested to learn about quirks of the Dreamcast itself, not just programming in general. So there is still much I can learn from a clean and documented source.

PsyMan · January 23rd, 2013, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AerosolSP

I'm also interested to learn about quirks of the Dreamcast itself, not just programming in general. So there is still much I can learn from a clean and documented source.

No. You learn about the quirks of a system by reading its datasheets or by reverse engineering it. As a last resort you can look at the source code of a preservation-oriented emulator like MAME.

Looking at a performance-oriented emulator in order to learn about a system is gonna result in learning the emulator's quirks, various theories with some of them being invalid and various things about the system itself... that turn out not to be related to the system at all cause there were optimizations, workarounds, hack-fixes and misconceptions all around the place.

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AerosolSP · January 23rd, 2013, 06:31

Huh. I was under the impression that NullDC was accuracy-oriented. Regardless, even if I can't learn from NullDC immediately, that's not to stop someone else from being able to learn from it. A little housekeeping could go a long way. I don't care if it takes another 5 years for just that to get done because NullDC isn't my project.

Maybe it's nothing, but I'm perceiving an unwarranted aggressive tone from you. Have I done or said something to offend you? Or has several years of user's sense of entitlement given you a rough edge?

PsyMan · January 23rd, 2013, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AerosolSP

Have I done or said something to offend you? Or has several years of user's sense of entitlement given you a rough edge?

No. I always sound aggressive, and I mean always. You'll get use to it.

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trickytree · January 30th, 2013, 15:12

DimitrisV22 has just made some big changes to nullDC in revision 142:
http://code.google.com/p/nulldc/source/detail?r=142

Has anyone tried it? My PC is out of action for a while, so it'd be nice if anyone could explain what improvements they see.

You can get optimised and non-optimised builds at:
http://www.emucr.com/search/label/DC?&max-results=12

Squall-Lionh@rt · January 30th, 2013, 23:47

avoid emucr unless you have good faith in your antivirus.

trickytree · January 31st, 2013, 15:33

Can't say I've had virus problems with EmuCR, but where else can you get compiled versions? ('build your own' isn't a viable answer for most)

DimitrisV22 is on a roll, we're now up to r144.

Squall-Lionh@rt · February 1st, 2013, 04:51

beg krossx to build you a copy

trickytree · February 5th, 2013, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squall-Lionh@rt

avoid emucr unless you have good faith in your antivirus.

Quite ironic then that Google recently listed this site as one that 'may harm your computer' but not EmuCR.

Anyway I've had a go with the latest revision (r146) and it's definitely in a 'transitional' phase - textures go missing or are incorrect, and there's lots of slowdown - Soul Calibur is badly affected, going from about 300% max speed to about 40% on my machine.

I'm sure the changes will come good, but for now it's best for users to stick to r141.

trickytree · February 8th, 2013, 01:02

r147 fixes the problems above, although to be honest I'm hard pushed to see any noticable improvements over r141. A layman's terms explanation of the changes would be nice.

KrossX · February 8th, 2013, 01:16

No idea. I've read something about streaming, which might help one shmup... Psyvariar I think, or Mars Matrix. I don't remember now.

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marlec · February 8th, 2013, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickytree

Anyway I've had a go with the latest revision (r146) and it's definitely in a 'transitional' phase - textures go missing or are incorrect, and there's lots of slowdown - Soul Calibur is badly affected, going from about 300% max speed to about 40% on my machine.

Has DimitrisV22 taken the project over then ?? can we expect more revisions from him ?

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trickytree · February 9th, 2013, 03:29

Don't know, it would be nice if he'd post on here and talk about his changes.

Nankeiro · March 13th, 2013, 21:59

Hey, tricky. hope you can help me with this. What revision to date is the best? I downloaded r149. Thanks in advance.

trickytree · March 14th, 2013, 00:22

I'd still say r141 is the most compatible, lots of good changes since then but I still notice some graphical glitches and missing audio in r149 which aren't in r141. There's a r150 out now with fixed memory leaks, but I haven't tried it.

I'd say use r141 combined with the alternate version I created (in this thread) for maximum compatibility, but keep a version of the latest revision for comparison.

Nankeiro · March 14th, 2013, 08:11

Thanks for answering. Really. I'm going to follow your advice and try Shenmue with this revision and your .exe. Thanks!

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January 18th, 2013, 19:47	#121
urbanman2004 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA, AR Posts: 39	@ trickytree: thanks for your continued contributions __________________ i7-950 EVGA X58 4-Way SLI Classified Mainboard 170-BL-E762-A1 Cosair Vengeance 16GB (4X4GB) DDR3 1600 MHZ EVGA GeForce GTX680 SuperClocked SilverStone 1200-W Western Digital 600 GB VelociRaptor (EXTRA) Western Digital 1 TB VelociRaptor WD1000DHTZ (SL 10.6.8 / LION 10.7.4 / ML 10.8.3) OCZ Technology Vertex 2 SSD 180 GB (Win8) Thermaltake ARMOR+ VH6000BWS Full Tower Case Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler *ASUS BW-12B1ST 12X Blu-Ray Internal Burner

January 23rd, 2013, 05:24	#122
AerosolSP Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Somewhere east of the west. Posts: 16	I spent a few minutes recovering my account to post this. I don't want you to work on NullDC anymore, drk\|\|raziel. I don't want you to work on increasing compatability or accuracy or any of the brunt work. Just clean it up and document it. That's all I want, literally. I'm 23 years old and I'm getting married next month. I've been through my fair share of ****, so I totally understand the "I don't have time" remarks. I don't have time for my own personal hobbies, and I don't feel right begging you to make NullDC any better than it already is. So just clean it up and document it whenever you have the time, so that I, and others, can try to learn from it. I'm not a programmer but if there's any grunt work you want done, you can always shoot me a line. Anything I can do to get my feet wet, you know? Thanks for all the fish, bro.

January 23rd, 2013, 05:53	#124
AerosolSP Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Somewhere east of the west. Posts: 16	I'm also interested to learn about quirks of the Dreamcast itself, not just programming in general. So there is still much I can learn from a clean and documented source.

January 23rd, 2013, 06:31	#126
AerosolSP Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Somewhere east of the west. Posts: 16	Huh. I was under the impression that NullDC was accuracy-oriented. Regardless, even if I can't learn from NullDC immediately, that's not to stop someone else from being able to learn from it. A little housekeeping could go a long way. I don't care if it takes another 5 years for just that to get done because NullDC isn't my project. Maybe it's nothing, but I'm perceiving an unwarranted aggressive tone from you. Have I done or said something to offend you? Or has several years of user's sense of entitlement given you a rough edge?

January 30th, 2013, 15:12	#128
trickytree Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK Posts: 113	DimitrisV22 has just made some big changes to nullDC in revision 142: http://code.google.com/p/nulldc/source/detail?r=142 Has anyone tried it? My PC is out of action for a while, so it'd be nice if anyone could explain what improvements they see. You can get optimised and non-optimised builds at: http://www.emucr.com/search/label/DC?&max-results=12

January 30th, 2013, 23:47	#129
Squall-Lionh@rt Maybe I'm a Lion Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 2,710	avoid emucr unless you have good faith in your antivirus.

January 31st, 2013, 15:33	#130
trickytree Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK Posts: 113	Can't say I've had virus problems with EmuCR, but where else can you get compiled versions? ('build your own' isn't a viable answer for most) DimitrisV22 is on a roll, we're now up to r144.

February 1st, 2013, 04:51	#131
Squall-Lionh@rt Maybe I'm a Lion Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 2,710	beg krossx to build you a copy

February 8th, 2013, 01:02	#133
trickytree Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK Posts: 113	r147 fixes the problems above, although to be honest I'm hard pushed to see any noticable improvements over r141. A layman's terms explanation of the changes would be nice.

February 8th, 2013, 01:16	#134
KrossX クロッスエクス Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Argentina Posts: 3,714	No idea. I've read something about streaming, which might help one shmup... Psyvariar I think, or Mars Matrix. I don't remember now. __________________

February 9th, 2013, 03:29	#136
trickytree Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK Posts: 113	Don't know, it would be nice if he'd post on here and talk about his changes.

March 13th, 2013, 21:59	#137
Nankeiro Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Mexico Posts: 3	Hey, tricky. hope you can help me with this. What revision to date is the best? I downloaded r149. Thanks in advance.

March 14th, 2013, 00:22	#138
trickytree Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: UK Posts: 113	I'd still say r141 is the most compatible, lots of good changes since then but I still notice some graphical glitches and missing audio in r149 which aren't in r141. There's a r150 out now with fixed memory leaks, but I haven't tried it. I'd say use r141 combined with the alternate version I created (in this thread) for maximum compatibility, but keep a version of the latest revision for comparison.

March 14th, 2013, 08:11	#139
Nankeiro Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Mexico Posts: 3	Thanks for answering. Really. I'm going to follow your advice and try Shenmue with this revision and your .exe. Thanks!