Codename: CHIP16 (prev. CHIP9) - Page 32

**refraction** · October 26th, 2011, 15:27

Hey dude! good ta

hope things are well with you

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paul_nicholls · October 26th, 2011, 22:25

I was thinking that once these specs are finalised, especially with regards to sounds, that I might try making a PC Chip16 emulator myself

If this works out, I might even try porting it over to the Android OS for some fun!

cheers,
Paul

**refraction** · October 26th, 2011, 23:52

Well here is my attempt ;p Ill release sources later once it's been cleaned up and ive tried doing a dynarec for it.

but afaik, it has full sound support, everything seems to work right, just make sure your directx is up to date n it should be fine ;p (i havent error trapped if you havent, so tough!)

edit:

on the note of sound support, 1 op such as

Code:

0D 0X LL HH SNP Play PCM Sound for HHLL miliseconds at the tone specified in address pointed to by Register X

That way you can keep a "bank" of notes and play them out at the speed and pitch you like. Pretty easy to do with a sine wave generator. I don't think there should be anything much more complicated than that, definately no audio samples that for sure. at most, we could have the Y bit of the opcode specifying type of wave (0 = sine, 1 = square, 2 = triangle), but as complexity goes, thats probably far enough!

Attached Files

Refchip16.7z (10.2 KB, 15 views)

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Last edited by refraction; October 27th, 2011 at 00:08..

tykel · October 27th, 2011, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_nicholls

I was thinking that once these specs are finalised, especially with regards to sounds, that I might try making a PC Chip16 emulator myself

If this works out, I might even try porting it over to the Android OS for some fun!

cheers,
Paul

Look forward to it

Quote:

Originally Posted by refraction

Well here is my attempt ;p Ill release sources later once it's been cleaned up and ive tried doing a dynarec for it.

but afaik, it has full sound support, everything seems to work right, just make sure your directx is up to date n it should be fine ;p (i havent error trapped if you havent, so tough!)

Nice work, sir.

I have found one slight bug, however - in the SoundTest rom, sounds are played without stopping, even after a different rom has been loaded.

Also, can't wait to see a dynarec for this. I was going to have a go at that in my own emu, mash16 (see sig), although I haven't even finished the interpreting core so it'll have to wait...

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by refraction

on the note of sound support, 1 op such as

Code:

0D 0X LL HH SNP Play PCM Sound for HHLL miliseconds at the tone specified in address pointed to by Register X

That way you can keep a "bank" of notes and play them out at the speed and pitch you like. Pretty easy to do with a sine wave generator. I don't think there should be anything much more complicated than that, definately no audio samples that for sure. at most, we could have the Y bit of the opcode specifying type of wave (0 = sine, 1 = square, 2 = triangle), but as complexity goes, thats probably far enough!

Fair points, audio samples are expensive in memory and cpu time. It makes things easier for the chip16 programmer, though, to have a DMA-ish play and forget sound instruction. But if you can't squeeze more than 4-5 seconds of audio in, what's the point eh?
So if I understand right, you suggest playing one tone at a time, with a variable rate (ie HHLL ms)? With a bit of effort, you could play something that resembles an audio sample

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Last edited by tykel; October 27th, 2011 at 00:15..

**refraction** · October 27th, 2011, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tykel

I have found one slight bug, however - in the SoundTest rom, sounds are played without stopping, even after a different rom has been loaded.

You're right! apparently the sound decides to loop forever if you interrupt it lol. Ive forced it to stop the sound now on reset/rom change so it won't do that anymore

reuploaded the attachment on the previous post

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paul_nicholls · October 27th, 2011, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by refraction

on the note of sound support, 1 op such as

Code:

0D 0X LL HH SNP Play PCM Sound for HHLL miliseconds at the tone specified in address pointed to by Register X

That way you can keep a "bank" of notes and play them out at the speed and pitch you like. Pretty easy to do with a sine wave generator. I don't think there should be anything much more complicated than that, definately no audio samples that for sure. at most, we could have the Y bit of the opcode specifying type of wave (0 = sine, 1 = square, 2 = triangle), but as complexity goes, thats probably far enough!

I like it! Simple, but should be quite useful

EDIT: hmm...thinking about this more, should we have some sort of attack/release time (variable, or hard coded) to stop any pops, etc. when starting/stopping notes?

cheers,
Paul

paul_nicholls · October 27th, 2011, 00:40

Maybe we could do something like this (taken from C64 sound programming)

Code:

ADSR Envelope Values
VALUE  ATTACK RATE DECAY RATE RELEASE RATE
0      2 ms        6 ms       6 ms
1      8 ms        24 ms      24 ms
2      16 ms       48 ms      48 ms
3      24 ms       72 ms      72 ms
4      38 ms       114 ms     114 ms
5      56 ms       168 ms     168 ms
6      68 ms       204 ms     204 ms
7      80 ms       240 ms     240 ms
8      100 ms      .3 sec     .3 sec
9      .25 sec     .75 sec    .75 sec
10     .5 sec      1.5 sec    1.5 sec
11     .8 sec      2.4 sec    2.4 sec
12     1 sec       3 sec      3 sec
13     3 sec       9 sec      9 sec
14     5 sec       15 sec     15 sec
15     8 sec       24 sec     24 sec

so maybe the mnemonics could be like so:

Code:

0D 0X LL HH AD SR  SNP Play PCM Sound for HHLL miliseconds at the tone specified in address pointed to by Register X, using the ADSR nibble values for attack, decay, sustain (volume), release respectively.

The AD SR values + milliseconds duration would build up the envelope prior to playing the tone...

I think this should be very easy to do, and not too complex...then lots of cool sounds would be possible!

What do you guys/gals think?

cheers,
Paul

Last edited by paul_nicholls; October 27th, 2011 at 00:45..

paul_nicholls · October 27th, 2011, 00:48

Or to save on code size when making 'songs', we could make a separate ADSR instruction maybe which sets the values prior to doing a bunch of notes?

Oh, and are we limiting ourselves to just one voice/note at a time? Or will the next sound not stop the previous sound and just mix with it to make polyphonic music?

EDIT: one other thing, what are we doing about the volume of sounds, and the type of sound being generated (square, sine, sawtooth, triangle, noise, ?) with this latest version of the single sound instruction?

cheers,
Paul

Last edited by paul_nicholls; October 27th, 2011 at 01:21..

paul_nicholls · October 27th, 2011, 01:39

Maybe we COULD do something like so:

Code:

...
09 00 00 00	SND0			Stop playing sounds.
0A 00 LL HH	SND1 HHLL		Play 500Hz tone for HHLL miliseconds (uses current sound generator settings; ADSR, etc.).
0B 00 LL HH	SND2 HHLL		Play 1000Hz tone for HHLL miliseconds (uses current sound generator settings; ADSR, etc.).
0C 00 LL HH	SND3 HHLL		Play 1500Hz tone for HHLL milliseconds (uses current sound generator settings; ADSR, etc.).

0D 0X LL HH     SNP                     Play Sound for HHLL miliseconds at the tone specified in address pointed to by Register X (uses current sound generator settings; ADSR, etc.).

0E AD SR VT     SNG                     Sound generator setup (applies to all sound tones which follow).
                                        A = attack  (0..15)
                                        D = decay   (0..15)
                                        S = sustain (0..15, volume)
                                        R = release (0..15)
                                        V = volume  (0..15)
                                        T = type of sound:
                                          00 = square wave
                                          01 = sine wave
                                          02 = sawtooth wave
                                          03 = triangle wave
                                          04 = noise
                                          non-valid values default to sine wave or something?

// Jumps
10 00 LL HH	JMP HHLL		Jump to the specified address.
...

Just a thought

cheers,
Paul

Last edited by paul_nicholls; October 27th, 2011 at 06:26..

**refraction** · October 27th, 2011, 09:05

I like it, but remember this is going to be someone's first emulator, we should be introducing them to the basics of everything. Its hard enough making a wave generator, let alone play with mixer dsp's xD We just have to make sure we don't get too excessive, without being too primitive. Happy Medium ;P

Quote:

Originally Posted by tykel

EDIT:
Fair points, audio samples are expensive in memory and cpu time. It makes things easier for the chip16 programmer, though, to have a DMA-ish play and forget sound instruction. But if you can't squeeze more than 4-5 seconds of audio in, what's the point eh?
So if I understand right, you suggest playing one tone at a time, with a variable rate (ie HHLL ms)? With a bit of effort, you could play something that resembles an audio sample

Edit from me: Sorry i missed this! Yeh thats pretty much the point. There is never going to be an epic musical masterpiece on this thing, thats for sure, but on a menu when you arent doing anything you can dedicate time to playing a note, causing a jmp if x = y, y +=1, type wait loop (y could be counting the ms or smth), play another note, so you can do a little tune or something, but more to the point, if you can choose the notes, it gives a bit more variation for movement/death/hitting stuff noises.

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Last edited by refraction; October 27th, 2011 at 13:07..

**SCHUMI_4EVER** · October 27th, 2011, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by refraction

Hey dude! good ta

hope things are well with you

Yup things are fine

Good to see you're finally over WoW, at least that you were stuck on that was the last report we got from GP ages ago.

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paul_nicholls · October 27th, 2011, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by refraction

I like it, but remember this is going to be someone's first emulator, we should be introducing them to the basics of everything. Its hard enough making a wave generator, let alone play with mixer dsp's xD We just have to make sure we don't get too excessive, without being too primitive. Happy Medium ;P

LOL! I forgot about that very valid point, that this is to enable someone make an emulator fairly easily, and I guess I did get carried away in my excitement

Thanks for reminding me!

Ok, just ignore my SNG command then

So are we going to use sine waves then for all sounds with a fixed volume?

cheers,
Paul

**ShendoXT** · October 28th, 2011, 00:54

Just found about BytePusher, another system based off Chip8 but way different then Chip16.

Prads · October 28th, 2011, 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShendoXT

Just found about BytePusher, another system based off Chip8 but way different then Chip16.

Same old hex keyboard, yuck!

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**refraction** · October 28th, 2011, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShendoXT

Just found about BytePusher, another system based off Chip8 but way different then Chip16.

Pff, chip16 is way better

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tykel · October 28th, 2011, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShendoXT

Just found about BytePusher, another system based off Chip8 but way different then Chip16.

Looks less intuitive to program for and has a horrible keyboard, as was said.
Only things going for it are big memory and decent sound/gfx.
So, Chip16 is my fav

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**ShendoXT** · October 28th, 2011, 22:25

Yay

Anyway, I think we either should remove all current sound related opcodes and make new ones or leave the thing as it is.
Combining various methods of sound creation/playing would make the system inconsistent (as it happened with Cotton's additions; opcodes are not "in order".

**refraction** · October 28th, 2011, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShendoXT

Yay

Anyway, I think we either should remove all current sound related opcodes and make new ones or leave the thing as it is.
Combining various methods of sound creation/playing would make the system inconsistent (as it happened with Cotton's additions; opcodes are not "in order".

Could be an idea tbh, it will mean modifying all current Roms to support it, but a single op for sound would be better!

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Chris2Balls · November 5th, 2011, 15:55

Hey guys, it's been a while since I haven't checked the thread out but lately I've been trying to optimize the chip16's palette. I was wondering if there was a quick way for me to change the palette in one of the image converters posted here, and if not, if somebody could explain how I can do this. :/
In the meantime with Tronix's image converter I did this, with the palette currently used:

The original files:

It's interesting because if you look at the original Wikipedia page, the C16's palette covers quite a good range in comparison to those of other systems!

Latest update on the C16's palette:

The reason why I'd like to find a quick way of switching the palette and converting images is so I can establish what kind of hue/value ramp I'm aiming for to maximize the palette's effectiveness.

Thanks in advance, and good luck guys

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tykel · November 5th, 2011, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris2Balls

Hey guys, it's been a while since I haven't checked the thread out but lately I've been trying to optimize the chip16's palette. I was wondering if there was a quick way for me to change the palette in one of the image converters posted here, and if not, if somebody could explain how I can do this. :/
In the meantime with Tronix's image converter I did this, with the palette currently used:

The original files:

It's interesting because if you look at the original Wikipedia page, the C16's palette covers quite a good range in comparison to those of other systems!

Latest update on the C16's palette:

The reason why I'd like to find a quick way of switching the palette and converting images is so I can establish what kind of hue/value ramp I'm aiming for to maximize the palette's effectiveness.

Thanks in advance, and good luck guys

To change the colors: you can hack a binary with a hex editor like HxD. Just perform a Find for a series of hex-values representing colors (e.g. FFFFFF for white, 000000 for black)
EDIT: Look between offsets E19E8 - E1A27 in imgconv.exe (Tronix's), that's where the palette is stored. Just modify from there

(each color is 4B, so 8 characters in the editor)
Or you can just send me the new palette in text format, and I can send you a custom build of my image converter.

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Last edited by tykel; November 6th, 2011 at 00:06..

October 26th, 2011, 15:27	#621
refraction PCSX2 Coder $refraction's Avatar$ Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 10,037	Hey dude! good ta hope things are well with you __________________ http://www.pcsx2.net Intel i7 920 @ 3.4Ghz, POV GTX 570 1.3Gb, 1.8Tb HD space, 6Gb OCZ Reaper PC3-14400 Triple Channel Dont PM me for help, use the forums, thats what its for! My Chip16 Emulator RefChip16 http://code.google.com/p/refchip16/
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October 26th, 2011, 22:25	#622
paul_nicholls Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Australia, Tasmania Posts: 180	I was thinking that once these specs are finalised, especially with regards to sounds, that I might try making a PC Chip16 emulator myself If this works out, I might even try porting it over to the Android OS for some fun! cheers, Paul

October 27th, 2011, 00:48	#628
paul_nicholls Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Australia, Tasmania Posts: 180	Or to save on code size when making 'songs', we could make a separate ADSR instruction maybe which sets the values prior to doing a bunch of notes? Oh, and are we limiting ourselves to just one voice/note at a time? Or will the next sound not stop the previous sound and just mix with it to make polyphonic music? EDIT: one other thing, what are we doing about the volume of sounds, and the type of sound being generated (square, sine, sawtooth, triangle, noise, ?) with this latest version of the single sound instruction? cheers, Paul Last edited by paul_nicholls; October 27th, 2011 at 01:21..

October 28th, 2011, 00:54	#633
ShendoXT Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 4,550	Just found about BytePusher, another system based off Chip8 but way different then Chip16. __________________ Shendo's software blog Core i5 2400 3.1 Ghz \| ASRock H67M \| GTX460 768Mb \| 8GB DDR3 1333 \| 1500 Gb HDD Grundig VLC 7121 C (1080p) 32" \| Razer DeathAdder \| Logitech G110 \| Windows 7 x64 Don't PM or ask me about VMP-MCR conversions. I will ignore you if you do.

October 28th, 2011, 22:25	#637
ShendoXT Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 4,550	Yay Anyway, I think we either should remove all current sound related opcodes and make new ones or leave the thing as it is. Combining various methods of sound creation/playing would make the system inconsistent (as it happened with Cotton's additions; opcodes are not "in order". __________________ Shendo's software blog Core i5 2400 3.1 Ghz \| ASRock H67M \| GTX460 768Mb \| 8GB DDR3 1333 \| 1500 Gb HDD Grundig VLC 7121 C (1080p) 32" \| Razer DeathAdder \| Logitech G110 \| Windows 7 x64 Don't PM or ask me about VMP-MCR conversions. I will ignore you if you do.

November 5th, 2011, 15:55	#639
Chris2Balls Le French Touch Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 15	Hey guys, it's been a while since I haven't checked the thread out but lately I've been trying to optimize the chip16's palette. I was wondering if there was a quick way for me to change the palette in one of the image converters posted here, and if not, if somebody could explain how I can do this. :/ In the meantime with Tronix's image converter I did this, with the palette currently used: The original files: It's interesting because if you look at the original Wikipedia page, the C16's palette covers quite a good range in comparison to those of other systems! Latest update on the C16's palette: The reason why I'd like to find a quick way of switching the palette and converting images is so I can establish what kind of hue/value ramp I'm aiming for to maximize the palette's effectiveness. Thanks in advance, and good luck guys __________________ Mitsubishi.