Question about types of roms

ReplicatorX · April 8th, 2003

I have the Killer Instinct Gold (europe) rom and it runs really slow (unplayable), an Pj64 gives me the following info
Status: Issues (plugin)
Notes: [video] slow
(The same thing happened with Mortal Kombat Trilogy

)

My question is, is their a posibility that if I got the US version that it wouldn't have the slow problem? or doesn't it matter?

**Chrono Archangel** · April 8th, 2003

nope, Killer Instinct Gold is known to be very slow. Theres little to no differences between the US and the Europe version. You wont see any speed improvement. You'll have to wait for another release to play these games, but not quite sure when since PJ64 and Nemu are discontinued

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felinusz · April 8th, 2003

I do not believe that there are ever any speed differences between games from different regions. All that is altered is the FPS counter that the game is set to run at. (something about different regions having different TV regulations).

Kaotic Soul · April 8th, 2003

NTSC TV's run at 60 fps while Pal Tv's run at 50 fps.

james.miller · April 20th, 2003

there is actually quite a difference.

form the console point-of-view, i have a n64 from taiwan that paklys american games and an american copy of perfectdark. Side-by-side, next to a friends european n64 with a play copy of PD, mine was distinctly fasters and more fluid.

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April 20th, 2003

I *believe* that 1964 got KIGold working well. At least from what I remember reading about it. I don't own it, so I don't have the rom to test for you. You'd have to check their offical forums/webpage for more details though.

felinusz · April 21st, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by james.miller
there is actually quite a difference.

form the console point-of-view, i have a n64 from taiwan that paklys american games and an american copy of perfectdark. Side-by-side, next to a friends european n64 with a play copy of PD, mine was distinctly fasters and more fluid.

(Was his copy of Perfect Dark from Europe?)

This is quite possibly because:

a) The Televisions that you were using had a faster 'setting' for refresh rate than the american N64 could 'match' (It was configured for a 50 refreshrate TV whilst you used a 60 refreshrate TV)

b) The TV's were different (One was a piece os sh|t)

c) That Taiwanese N64 has some crazy mad-modifications done to it

d) One of you didn't have an expansion pak...

I'm quite sure that games from all regions run at the same speed on the same hardware on a Television from that particular region. Could be mistaken though, I've never seen or played a European N64 game (except when emulated)
:grin:

james.miller · April 21st, 2003

no the games were identical. mine was american (60fps) and his was european (50fps). do the math- ntsc is 20% faster than pal. thats all there is too it. NTSC games are faster.

btw they were both run on multi-standard t.v's. mine was correctly picked up as 60hz and his was 50z

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**DarkAurora** · April 21st, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by ReplicatorX
I have the Killer Instinct Gold (europe) rom and it runs really slow (unplayable), an Pj64 gives me the following info
Status: Issues (plugin)
Notes: [video] slow
(The same thing happened with Mortal Kombat Trilogy )

My question is, is their a posibility that if I got the US version that it wouldn't have the slow problem? or doesn't it matter?

ALWAYS post your system specs. It may be that your computer is too slow to play Killer Instict Gold at full speed.

james.miller · April 21st, 2003

no killer instict is knownto be slow. its an issue with the game. its not just slow in his system. its slow on everybodys. mine included. it evey SAYS so in the rom list.

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felinusz · April 22nd, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by james.miller
no the games were identical. mine was american (60fps) and his was european (50fps). do the math- ntsc is 20% faster than pal. thats all there is too it. NTSC games are faster.

btw they were both run on multi-standard t.v's. mine was correctly picked up as 60hz and his was 50z

On a Television that displays 50 FPS the game that uses 50 FPS runs just as FAST as a game that uses 60 FPS on a 60 FPS screen, it would merely be showing less stuff. The way you are putting it the TV shows in countries that utilize a 60 FPS screen are actually going faster than in a country where the screens use 50 FPS. You are correct on one level but wrong on the other, see what I mean? The gamers in Europe have the same reflexes as the Gamers here in North Amerika, the games run at the same SPEED on both countries TV standards, the European ones simply have less 'framage'. If the games from the NTSC area where actually faster than the would also be %20 harder to play.

NTSC games are not FASTER per se. (Than again, since you actually tested this you have a stronger argument than I do, all of my expierience is from identical ROMs from different regions... I'm still sticking to my guns though)

And I did the math, and even if you're right, you're wrong, the PAL game is %20 slower, not the other way around.

james.miller · April 22nd, 2003

im sorry but you are WRONG. up until the dreamcast, games wernt designed to run at the same speed on different systems.they were simply sped up or slowed down depending on what standard they were running on. there has been documented differences on the two systems's games, especially on on the n64 and psx. I remember a review for gt2 telling me that the ntsc version was actually closer to 30% faster so the pal version had to be optimised slightly to keep up, and no, i DID NOT make that up.

Quote:

The way you are putting it the TV shows in countries that utilize a 60 FPS screen are actually going faster than in a country where the screens use 50 FPS

HAHA. NO. that not what im saying at all. we are talking about games here, not tv shows.

first of:
1) up unilt the dreamcast, as i said, console games are designed for one console spec only. there was none of this ntsc or pal crap. it was designed with one spec in mind. now it either run at 60fsb or 50fps and the games was actually faster or slower. end of story.
2) when watching t.v shows, the tv always recieves an inspec signal (that is, always 50hz over here). conversions are made before the signal reaches the t.v so you never see the diffence.

Quote:

And I did the math, and even if you're right, you're wrong, the PAL game is %20 slower, not the other way around

your argument is failing FAST. right but wrong? how the hell can i be right but wrong? what if games were designed on a pal system first (at yes, that DOES happen). if it were then palyed on an ntsc system, wouldnt it not be faster? of course it would. im right eitherway

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**Kane** · April 22nd, 2003

felinusz, just to help james.miller here completely destroy your arguement: Have you played Tekken Tag Tournament PAL? It seems like the fighters became geriatric while waiting for the conversion, and would be better suited to grabbing thier pension than fighting.
However, older games did indeed have identical speeds NTSC/PAL (from my experience with Dead Dance/Tuff 'E' Nuff, and the various Street Fighters), and the newer ones do too.... if they have big black borders the size of Mt.Sinai.
It's this simple:
NTSC: Correct (fast) speed
PAL 50Hz: Either black boders that make 12:1 aspect ratio look normal, or games that run slower than Hannibal Lecter strapped to his stretcher.
PAL 60Hz: Proper speed with no annoying black borders. In theory a far superior TV standard to NTSC, but 100% only supported on TVs post 1995 in the UK.

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felinusz · April 22nd, 2003

O.K. It appears that I'm definetely wrong. What else can I say?

Quote:

Originally posted by james.miller
your argument is failing FAST. right but wrong? how the hell can i be right but wrong? what if games were designed on a pal system first (at yes, that DOES happen). if it were then palyed on an ntsc system, wouldnt it not be faster? of course it would. im right eitherway

I was just playing around with that infallable logic :grin:

Take care man.

james.miller · April 22nd, 2003

owned lol

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felinusz · April 23rd, 2003

THAT is uncalled for....

Alright, you deserve the right to gloat a little bit.... :grin:

james.miller · April 23rd, 2003

lol. just a lttle.......

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goldseal99 · April 27th, 2003

yeh and pal tv has a higher resolution for tv shows than ntsc so which 1 is better?

james.miller · April 27th, 2003

pal has a higher resolution full stop. pal definatly looks better, but ntsc is just that little bit more "fluid". It's down to personal preference which is better.

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**Kane** · April 28th, 2003

>yeh and pal tv has a higher resolution for tv shows than ntsc so which 1 is better?

PAL60. For TV, PAL is better, as the higher frame rate is unnotticable, but the fact that NTSC is never the same colour is.

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April 8th, 2003	#1 (permalink)
ReplicatorX Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 9	Question about types of roms I have the Killer Instinct Gold (europe) rom and it runs really slow (unplayable), an Pj64 gives me the following info Status: Issues (plugin) Notes: [video] slow (The same thing happened with Mortal Kombat Trilogy ) My question is, is their a posibility that if I got the US version that it wouldn't have the slow problem? or doesn't it matter?

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April 8th, 2003	#2 (permalink)
Chrono Archangel Administrator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 7,845	nope, Killer Instinct Gold is known to be very slow. Theres little to no differences between the US and the Europe version. You wont see any speed improvement. You'll have to wait for another release to play these games, but not quite sure when since PJ64 and Nemu are discontinued __________________ When Pigs Fly: The Death of Oink, the Birth of Dissent, and a Brief History of Record Industry Suicide.

April 8th, 2003	#3 (permalink)
felinusz overclocking magus Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,372	I do not believe that there are ever any speed differences between games from different regions. All that is altered is the FPS counter that the game is set to run at. (something about different regions having different TV regulations).

April 8th, 2003	#4 (permalink)
Kaotic Soul Random Madness Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pearl,Mississippi,USA Posts: 494	NTSC TV's run at 60 fps while Pal Tv's run at 50 fps. __________________ ---------------------------------- \| Intel Pentium 4 3.4 GHz \| Windows Vista \| 1.7 Gig of Ram \| Nvidia 8600 GT OC \| Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS - Gamer : Limited Edition \| Western Digital 250 Gig HD \| Lite-on DVD-RW/CD-RW \| HP Pavilion 19" LCD" --------------------------------

April 20th, 2003	#5 (permalink)
james.miller Mr. Stupendous Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Here, There and Everywhere. Posts: 1,138	there is actually quite a difference. form the console point-of-view, i have a n64 from taiwan that paklys american games and an american copy of perfectdark. Side-by-side, next to a friends european n64 with a play copy of PD, mine was distinctly fasters and more fluid. __________________ Lives for the chase.

April 20th, 2003	#6 (permalink)
Modem Guest Posts: n/a	I believe that 1964 got KIGold working well. At least from what I remember reading about it. I don't own it, so I don't have the rom to test for you. You'd have to check their offical forums/webpage for more details though.

April 21st, 2003	#8 (permalink)
james.miller Mr. Stupendous Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Here, There and Everywhere. Posts: 1,138	no the games were identical. mine was american (60fps) and his was european (50fps). do the math- ntsc is 20% faster than pal. thats all there is too it. NTSC games are faster. btw they were both run on multi-standard t.v's. mine was correctly picked up as 60hz and his was 50z __________________ Lives for the chase.

April 22nd, 2003	#13 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,305	felinusz, just to help james.miller here completely destroy your arguement: Have you played Tekken Tag Tournament PAL? It seems like the fighters became geriatric while waiting for the conversion, and would be better suited to grabbing thier pension than fighting. However, older games did indeed have identical speeds NTSC/PAL (from my experience with Dead Dance/Tuff 'E' Nuff, and the various Street Fighters), and the newer ones do too.... if they have big black borders the size of Mt.Sinai. It's this simple: NTSC: Correct (fast) speed PAL 50Hz: Either black boders that make 12:1 aspect ratio look normal, or games that run slower than Hannibal Lecter strapped to his stretcher. PAL 60Hz: Proper speed with no annoying black borders. In theory a far superior TV standard to NTSC, but 100% only supported on TVs post 1995 in the UK. __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb

April 22nd, 2003	#15 (permalink)
james.miller Mr. Stupendous Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Here, There and Everywhere. Posts: 1,138	owned lol __________________ Lives for the chase.

April 23rd, 2003	#16 (permalink)
felinusz overclocking magus Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,372	THAT is uncalled for.... Alright, you deserve the right to gloat a little bit.... :grin:

April 23rd, 2003	#17 (permalink)
james.miller Mr. Stupendous Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Here, There and Everywhere. Posts: 1,138	lol. just a lttle....... __________________ Lives for the chase.

April 27th, 2003	#18 (permalink)
goldseal99 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3	yeh and pal tv has a higher resolution for tv shows than ntsc so which 1 is better?

April 27th, 2003	#19 (permalink)
james.miller Mr. Stupendous Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Here, There and Everywhere. Posts: 1,138	pal has a higher resolution full stop. pal definatly looks better, but ntsc is just that little bit more "fluid". It's down to personal preference which is better. __________________ Lives for the chase.

April 28th, 2003	#20 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,305	>yeh and pal tv has a higher resolution for tv shows than ntsc so which 1 is better? PAL60. For TV, PAL is better, as the higher frame rate is unnotticable, but the fact that NTSC is never the same colour is. __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb