PCSX2 review : CPU power DOES matter. - Page 4

**Bobbi** · August 15th, 2006

VERY nice review for sure, I read every part of it. Would it be okay with you if we added this review to the article section of NGEmu, as I'm sure many people would be interrested in reading it?

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**RPGW1ZaRD** · August 15th, 2006

When running RAM at 200MHz I found only 2 screenshots where the FPS was different with ~2 FPS, and I don't think it's enough in order for me to update this review cuz of that, just a lot of work. I'll mind the ram speed next time I'd do a comparision like this tho in case the emulator really starts to benefit more by different ram speeds. I still might add the BF and AA4x speed comparisions but I dunno how important these are atm, since the speedloss varies A LOT from none depending on gfx card.

When hardware enthusiasts review new CPUs PCSX2 should really be the major program to test the performance of CPUs as the results doesn't get affected by RAM or GFX card almost anything at all but still show a glimpse of gaming performance.

It would be pretty easy to estimate how many MHz faster an Intel Conroe cpu is compared to an AMD X2 cpu clock for clock with PCSX2 using same method I did in this test for example.

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Last edited by RPGW1ZaRD; August 15th, 2006 at 16:45..

**refraction** · August 15th, 2006

sorry i dont expect you to redo the tests youve already done, they give a perfect account on what overclocking can do for emulation, which is also a very good thing to test and show its benifits

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Silenus · August 15th, 2006

Nice review.

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dutchMasta · August 15th, 2006

Hi, GREAT review, just wanted to say.
This is a minor request, I hopefully will be contributing to this thread or make one of my own with conroe e6600 results, once I get my new cooler (tuniq tower 120). Could you see how much GPU makes a difference, like, stock settings and overclocked settings? I know it's REALLY cpu dependant, but just want to see how much work the gpu does. And also, the difference between 4xAA+BilinFiltering and nothing, at each stock+OC settings.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to overclock, and I'm not the richest, so I don't think I'll be pushing my CPU to the edge, but hopefully, there's this really nice person who may help me overclock it, and I'll see what speeds I can get, but I don't think I'll touch it afterwards, like go back and forth between overclock and stock settings, sort of thing.

THANKS!

**RPGW1ZaRD** · August 16th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dutchMasta

Hi, GREAT review, just wanted to say.
This is a minor request, I hopefully will be contributing to this thread or make one of my own with conroe e6600 results, once I get my new cooler (tuniq tower 120). Could you see how much GPU makes a difference, like, stock settings and overclocked settings? I know it's REALLY cpu dependant, but just want to see how much work the gpu does. And also, the difference between 4xAA+BilinFiltering and nothing, at each stock+OC settings.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to overclock, and I'm not the richest, so I don't think I'll be pushing my CPU to the edge, but hopefully, there's this really nice person who may help me overclock it, and I'll see what speeds I can get, but I don't think I'll touch it afterwards, like go back and forth between overclock and stock settings, sort of thing.

THANKS!

Check the 1st page again just before conclusion, added some pics with lowest quality settings with gfx card at stock speed and overclocked and also aa4x and bilinear filtering with both overclocked and stock. Hope that answers your question.

I will try Grandia 3 as well as that game gets more affected by AA4x and BF.

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Last edited by RPGW1ZaRD; August 16th, 2006 at 12:11..

CrispySilicon · August 16th, 2006

CPU power makes a huge difference... I just upgraded to a new E6600 core 2 duo and I'm getting about two to three times the frame rates I had with my old AMD 4800 X2

edit: Just like to add that Suikoden IV is actually semi-playable now, whee!

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
2GB DDR1 3200
256mb eVGA 7800gs

Wortany · August 16th, 2006

Nice review, and also nice to know that you don't need an expensive GFX for performance on normal setting. But I must add 1 thing. |Gand|Alf|, with the last test you only tested 1 place. I have tested some with AA myself and I noticed that not every place in FFX gets slowed down with AAx4. Like when standing outside the crusaders log I have maximum 2fps loss at AAx4 (pic 1, 2, strangely enough they have the same fps so no loss), but when standing at the entrance of besaid temple (at the door with those fires) I see a drastical loss in fps (pic 3, 4).
I hope you can tell the difference between them so that you see I'm not making this up. (I took a snapshot instead of screenshot)

Attached Images

	snap004.jpg (52.9 KB, 89 views)
	snap005.jpg (57.4 KB, 74 views)
	snap006.jpg (38.1 KB, 96 views)
	snap008.jpg (40.3 KB, 85 views)

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Traxxx · August 17th, 2006

If you send me the saves of the second screens I can test it

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**RPGW1ZaRD** · August 17th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wortany

Nice review, and also nice to know that you don't need an expensive GFX for performance on normal setting. But I must add 1 thing. |Gand|Alf|, with the last test you only tested 1 place. I have tested some with AA myself and I noticed that not every place in FFX gets slowed down with AAx4. Like when standing outside the crusaders log I have maximum 2fps loss at AAx4 (pic 1, 2, strangely enough they have the same fps so no loss), but when standing at the entrance of besaid temple (at the door with those fires) I see a drastical loss in fps (pic 3, 4).
I hope you can tell the difference between them so that you see I'm not making this up. (I took a snapshot instead of screenshot)

That's weird... you got a 6600GT and still get no performance loss in those 2 1st pics, I had like 128 vs 68 fps lol. I guess my gfx card must be too weak to follow at such high fps rates, now when I think about it that makes perfect sense, I have like equal FX62 performing CPU paired with an old 6800GT (awaiting good DX10 cards to hit the market

). I'm pretty sure if I lowered cpu speed to stock 1.8GHz and run in single core mode I might not even see any fps drops with AA4x and BF but then again the fps rate is constantly much lower too

). PCSX2 sounds like a good test that shows that if you're GPU or CPU limited

. Not that it matters so much to me since I'm able to play with a nice 45 - 172 fps rate with lowest quality all the way to where it freezes in the FMV in besaid temple the 1st time.

For AMD dual core with Windows XP SP2 users I'd really recommend following amd driver installation guide to make sure you're getting optimal performance: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=81429

But in case I enable only either bilinear filtering or AA4x the performance drops very minorly, like from let's say 120 to 110 fps. Which Nvidia driver version are you using?

In that spot I get results like this, very drastic performance loss (110 - 115 -> 38 - 45).

So that's it. The graphics card doesn't improve FPS rates at all in lowest quality settings in ZeroGS v0.95.2 but when you enable AA4x and BF the fps loss is huge or none depending on game and area and how fast your CPU is compared to your graphics card (in case the graphics card can't keep up with the CPU speed thus the graphic card will be the limiting factor and you will of course see a lower FPS rate). Overclocking the graphic card also helps to reduce the FPS loss with maximum quality settings.

Shows that finally gfx card gets at least some work to do (only improving image quality in this case), so it's not only CPU.

Attached Images

	ffxlow.jpg (93.3 KB, 62 views)
	ffxhigh.jpg (89.1 KB, 71 views)

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Last edited by RPGW1ZaRD; August 17th, 2006 at 16:21..

dutchMasta · August 17th, 2006

Thanks |Gand|Alf|, my suspicions were true. My 6600GT took a pretty big performance hit when activating 4xAA and bilinear filtering, and I saw other people with worse CPU's saying they don't get performance hits (or not as big), and looking at their graphics cards, it looked like the general trend was:
Better graphics cards = better 4xAA and bilinear filtering handling
Better CPU = better FPS on regular settings
I didn't want to jump to conclusions though, and I saw this thread, and your tests so thought I might as well ask, since it seemed a good test to include. I mean after all, PCSX2 is v CPU dependant, everyone says, but the graphics card has to do SOME work at least, nice to have a rough idea to how they affect performances. Thanks again!!

Traxxx · August 17th, 2006

Quote:

For AMD dual core users I'd really recommend following amd driver installation guide to make sure you're getting optimal performance

You should have mentioned that it´s only for WinXP users, I wondered
how installing Cool´n Quiet would bring performance

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**refraction** · August 17th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traxxx

You should have mentioned that it´s only for WinXP users, I wondered
how installing Cool´n Quiet would bring performance

most probably none at all, plus if you overclock, that will ruin any chance you have of a stable system

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**RPGW1ZaRD** · August 17th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traxxx

You should have mentioned that it´s only for WinXP users, I wondered
how installing Cool´n Quiet would bring performance

You can install the AMD dual core drivers and still have Cool n' Quiet disabled in BIOS you know.

There seems to be other things involved in the driver too not only cool n quiet.

Without the AMD dual core driver I get slightly choppy performance in some PC games, with all those 3 drivers installed it gives the best smoothest performance as the person that made the guide also tells. And yes it applies for Windows XP SP2 only but that's what provides best performance for dual core users too currently.

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Last edited by RPGW1ZaRD; August 17th, 2006 at 20:53..

Eric-1987 · August 17th, 2006

I noticed going from a stock of 2GHz to my new stable 2500MHz has made about an 10+ FPS increase. Now in KH1 I dont get lower then 41 FPS besides in cutscenes which is awesome!

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Traxxx · August 17th, 2006

Quote:

And yes it applies for Windows XP SP2 only but that's what provides best performance for dual core users too currently.

If you mean because of VM version you are perhaps right but not with
normal games

Quote:

You can install the AMD dual core drivers and still have Cool n' Quiet disabled in BIOS you know. There seems to be other things involved in the driver too not only cool n quiet.

If you mean the timing fix perhaps but not the "driver" as it´s not a real driver, my CPU driver is the ACPI-Multiprocessor-PC driver from MS
(containing hal.dll, kernel32.dll and so on

) so it´s more an WinXP fix

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**RPGW1ZaRD** · August 17th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traxxx

If you mean because of VM version you are perhaps right but not with
normal games

Just curious, what are you using in case not Windows XP SP2? I've only tried SP1 vs SP2 and with singlecore I had better performance with my slipstreamed SP1 version but with dual core SP2 seems better, but yea VM build adds a noticable difference to speed in PCSX2 as well.

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Last edited by RPGW1ZaRD; August 17th, 2006 at 22:40..

zragnarok · August 18th, 2006

I recently upgraded my 1.83ghz Core Solo (Yonah) to a 1.66ghz Core Duo (Yonah) and got a consistent ~10fps boost across the board even with the lower clockspeed. Dual Core helps ALOT. I plan on upgrading to the Core 2 - T7200 (Merom/Conroe). On average the Conroe is about 20% faster than the Yonah at the same clock speed so I am expecting healthy gains

Traxxx · August 18th, 2006

Quote:

Just curious, what are you using in case not Windows XP SP2?

Because Win2k is more stable when your system has huge amount of RAM,
a lot of apps installed and should work 24/7 with a lot of server services running

Tried WinXP 64 bit Pro but as most games didn´t start because copy protection didn´t recognize the OS I´ll keep with Win2k until I build my
next system (as Vista is not downwards compatible and I like playing old
games like FF7/FF8 and even playing DOS games like Simon The Sorcerer

so only next system will get OS upgrade)
Sure FarCry looked great on WinXP 64bit and most 32bit apps gained 3%-10%
performance but I don´t like an OS that does not allow me to do anything
(besides TVCard drivers for WinXP 64bit is a pain in the &%(§/)

And on my other systems WinXP is no option too because I use them
to compose music and there exist no XP drivers for my Yamaha XG

On the FX60 system I have WinXP installed because ATI does claim Catalyst
could do Crossfire on Win2k systems (like they said TVOut would work again *angry*) but it´s not possible as the CF tab simply is missing under Win2k.

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MASTERXZ · August 21st, 2006

yeah! thanks for the info

August 15th, 2006	#63 (permalink)
refraction PCSX2 Coder $refraction's Avatar$ Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 9,822	sorry i dont expect you to redo the tests youve already done, they give a perfect account on what overclocking can do for emulation, which is also a very good thing to test and show its benifits __________________ http://www.generalemu.net/ Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3.4Ghz (425x8), Leadtek GTX 280 1Gb, 1.8Tb HDs, 2Gb Corsair DDR2-800 @ DDR2-1020 5-5-5-18 Dual Channel Dont PM me for help, use the forums, thats what its for!
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August 15th, 2006	#61 (permalink)
Bobbi Totally crazy Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 2,381	VERY nice review for sure, I read every part of it. Would it be okay with you if we added this review to the article section of NGEmu, as I'm sure many people would be interrested in reading it? __________________ Specs: AMD Athlon 64 4000+ • 2048 MB PC400 RAM • Nvidia GeForce 7600 GT PCI-E • WinXP Pro

August 15th, 2006	#62 (permalink)
RPGW1ZaRD PCSX2 & O/C Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: My Computer Posts: 2,840	When running RAM at 200MHz I found only 2 screenshots where the FPS was different with ~2 FPS, and I don't think it's enough in order for me to update this review cuz of that, just a lot of work. I'll mind the ram speed next time I'd do a comparision like this tho in case the emulator really starts to benefit more by different ram speeds. I still might add the BF and AA4x speed comparisions but I dunno how important these are atm, since the speedloss varies A LOT from none depending on gfx card. When hardware enthusiasts review new CPUs PCSX2 should really be the major program to test the performance of CPUs as the results doesn't get affected by RAM or GFX card almost anything at all but still show a glimpse of gaming performance. It would be pretty easy to estimate how many MHz faster an Intel Conroe cpu is compared to an AMD X2 cpu clock for clock with PCSX2 using same method I did in this test for example. __________________ « Feel free to browse through PCSX2 screenshots on RPGWiZaRD's Putfile.com section » Intel® Core™2 Duo E8400 @ 4.0GHz «-» Gigabyte P35-DS4 «-» CellShock 2x1GB @ DDR2-1200 5-5-4-10 «-» JetWay 8800GT 512 MB @ 705/1750/1015 MHz «-» Thermaltake ToughPower 750W «-» Sony Multiscan G400 19" CRT «-» OCZ Vendetta 2 «-» Creative SoundBlaster Audigy «-» Logitech X-530 5.1 «-» Sennheiser HD 212 Pro «-» Logitech MX™518 Gaming-Grade «-» Razer Mantis Speed «-» Windows XP Pro SP3 «-» Windows Server 2k8 XSOS 3.0 BETA Last edited by RPGW1ZaRD; August 15th, 2006 at 16:45..

August 15th, 2006	#64 (permalink)
Silenus Pilgrim Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Hyperion Posts: 3,386	Nice review. __________________ --ASUS G50VT-X1 - P8400 2.5GHZ - Geforce 9800GS 512MB - HDD 320GB - 4GB DDR2 800MHZ - WINDOWS 7 64 BIT - ZALMAN NC2000-- ...Mis sueños son mentiras que algun día dejarán de serlo...

August 15th, 2006	#65 (permalink)
dutchMasta Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 152	Hi, GREAT review, just wanted to say. This is a minor request, I hopefully will be contributing to this thread or make one of my own with conroe e6600 results, once I get my new cooler (tuniq tower 120). Could you see how much GPU makes a difference, like, stock settings and overclocked settings? I know it's REALLY cpu dependant, but just want to see how much work the gpu does. And also, the difference between 4xAA+BilinFiltering and nothing, at each stock+OC settings. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to overclock, and I'm not the richest, so I don't think I'll be pushing my CPU to the edge, but hopefully, there's this really nice person who may help me overclock it, and I'll see what speeds I can get, but I don't think I'll touch it afterwards, like go back and forth between overclock and stock settings, sort of thing. THANKS! __________________ PC Specs: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 1.0 F11 \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz @ 3.4GHz \| 2x Maxtor 250GB SATA II HDD RAID0 \| 2x Corsair TWIN2X1024A-6400 DDR2 800 (512MX2) \| Gigabyte GeForce 8800GTS 320MB \| Tuniq Tower 120 \| Dual Boot: Windows Vista x64 & Windows XP Pro SP2

August 16th, 2006	#67 (permalink)
CrispySilicon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: CA, USA Posts: 55	CPU power makes a huge difference... I just upgraded to a new E6600 core 2 duo and I'm getting about two to three times the frame rates I had with my old AMD 4800 X2 edit: Just like to add that Suikoden IV is actually semi-playable now, whee! Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2GB DDR1 3200 256mb eVGA 7800gs

August 17th, 2006	#69 (permalink)
Traxxx Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 275	If you send me the saves of the second screens I can test it __________________ CU Traxxx Homepage: http://traxxx.no-ip.org [Systems: 1x AMD Athlon FX 60, 1x AMD Athlon X2 4800+, 1x AMD Athlon 64 3800+, 1x AMD Athlon 64 3800+, 1x Intel Core2Duo E4300, Minimum RAM 1 GB DDR, Maximum 4 GB Dual Channel DDR CL 2 @ 333 Mhz, 2x Sapphire Radeon X1900XTX (Crossfire), 1x HIS IceQ3 X1900XTX, 2xPowerColor X850XT PE, 1x His IceQ3 HD3850 Turbo SB Audigy 2 ZS, 4x DVDRW 16x Dual Layer,3x 19" CRT, 17" TFT BenQ, 4 Webcams, 64-fullsize-keys Midi-Masterkeyboard and a lot of stuff ]

August 17th, 2006	#71 (permalink)
dutchMasta Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 152	Thanks \|Gand\|Alf\|, my suspicions were true. My 6600GT took a pretty big performance hit when activating 4xAA and bilinear filtering, and I saw other people with worse CPU's saying they don't get performance hits (or not as big), and looking at their graphics cards, it looked like the general trend was: Better graphics cards = better 4xAA and bilinear filtering handling Better CPU = better FPS on regular settings I didn't want to jump to conclusions though, and I saw this thread, and your tests so thought I might as well ask, since it seemed a good test to include. I mean after all, PCSX2 is v CPU dependant, everyone says, but the graphics card has to do SOME work at least, nice to have a rough idea to how they affect performances. Thanks again!! __________________ PC Specs: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 1.0 F11 \| Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz @ 3.4GHz \| 2x Maxtor 250GB SATA II HDD RAID0 \| 2x Corsair TWIN2X1024A-6400 DDR2 800 (512MX2) \| Gigabyte GeForce 8800GTS 320MB \| Tuniq Tower 120 \| Dual Boot: Windows Vista x64 & Windows XP Pro SP2

August 17th, 2006	#75 (permalink)
Eric-1987 High End System PCSX2 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 435	I noticed going from a stock of 2GHz to my new stable 2500MHz has made about an 10+ FPS increase. Now in KH1 I dont get lower then 41 FPS besides in cutscenes which is awesome! __________________ Intel Conroe E6300 @ 3200MHz 2x2048 of OCZ DDR2 HIS 4870 1024MB MSI P7NE 320GB SATA WD HDD 630W Enermax Volcano

August 18th, 2006	#78 (permalink)
zragnarok Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: asdf Posts: 27	I recently upgraded my 1.83ghz Core Solo (Yonah) to a 1.66ghz Core Duo (Yonah) and got a consistent ~10fps boost across the board even with the lower clockspeed. Dual Core helps ALOT. I plan on upgrading to the Core 2 - T7200 (Merom/Conroe). On average the Conroe is about 20% faster than the Yonah at the same clock speed so I am expecting healthy gains

August 21st, 2006	#80 (permalink)
MASTERXZ SHINIGAMI Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panamá Posts: 42	yeah! thanks for the info