BETA Discussion Thread - Read 1st post

[bositman]

Uh i really appreciate the work you guys are doing,but isn't it getting too far with all these hacks? I mean it looks like everyday you add more and more game specific hacks making the emulator a hack-o-matic thing....hope these will get removed when you figure out a better way to code things

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[tedou21]

hack-o-matic yes but it's the nice solution for game go working sorry my bad english bosit i'm french

[TILK]

Seems to me that they are adding hacks to get games that were working with the official svn with the new recode that they are doing. Plus a few optimizations here and there to gain speed for all the added checks and flags etc... But I think it was cotton who said that when the rec work is complete that the need for the hacks are gone and to help with the sps. Dont remember correctly.

(Sorry if I shouldnt of replied and went off topic... Dunno if I did or not)

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[rama2]

I'm getting confused by the hacks as well
But at this time this seems to be the only way to get those problematic
games to run. Also the new way of clamping *should* be more correct.

Its just normal for pcsx2 to work worse when things are done like they should be done

[hockland]

And of programming ingeneral really. You change one thing to a better way, but then all other bits of code which were linked to the old way start having problems and then need to be fixed up as well.

I hope the need for a heap of game specific fixes is done away with soon as well.

And just reporting that in the latest playground version (r97) GT4 is back to normal. Least I can get upto an actual race before a crash or freeze now. But the freeze / crash is gsdx related anyways.

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Last edited by hockland; September 6th, 2008 at 19:03..

[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by bositman

Uh i really appreciate the work you guys are doing,but isn't it getting too far with all these hacks? I mean it looks like everyday you add more and more game specific hacks making the emulator a hack-o-matic thing....hope these will get removed when you figure out a better way to code things

bosit i agree, i hate adding hacks.

but in the process of trying to make pcsx2 run exactly like the ps2, a few games have broken.
which is why i've made a few gamefix hacks for now.

all the gamefix hacks are doing is using old-code from the official pcsx2. which were essentially hacks to begin with.
(for example: the clamping hacks set infinities to zero, but the real PS2 makes those numbers be the maximum number it can hold.)

and yeah i'm hoping to find a way to fix these problems w/o using hacks.
just need more time

p.s.
as for the extra speedhacks that have been added. they're mostly removing some code that isn't needed for some games.
i could just have the code set all the time, but pcsx2 takes a massive performance hit, and people will complain that its super slow.

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[bositman]

Well then why not leave the games broken,since they work on the official SVN? Then whoever wants to play them can use that build and you will just have to work your way in fixing them It's not like this is an official release where everything needs to work perfect

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[Nokiaman]

Originally Posted by bositman

Well then why not leave the games broken,since they work on the official SVN? Then whoever wants to play them can use that build and you will just have to work your way in fixing them It's not like this is an official release where everything needs to work perfect

I give you example.Rockstar games were broken from 370-390.And thanks to PP they are working better than *****ty slower 351-369

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[bositman]

Well if you find some revisions ****ty,you better code them better or stfu.
These people are not making this so you can play your GTA,they are trying to fully emulate the playstation 2.
What I mean is that since this repository is an attempt of a big rewrite of PCSX2,there is no reason for specific game hacks for games which got broken in that attempt.
You can leave them broken for the time,until you find a way to fix them.You shouldn't care if some people can't play they're games with it anymore,because in the long term it is for the better

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[diablosv]

Don't get why you'd want to play GTA on PCSX2, the PC version works just awesome and fine.

Now getting fighting games like Tekken working, well that is awsome.

[hockland]

Where as for me I dont care at all if Tekken works or not, but GTA working matters. And I personally prefer the console versions of GTA to the pc ones. I just prefer the controls overall. And I like all the VURec changes occuring in the playground build lately. Hope it leads to a more accurate (to an actual ps2) emulator soon .

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[diablosv]

Originally Posted by hockland

Where as for me I dont care at all if Tekken works or not, but GTA working matters. And I personally prefer the console versions of GTA to the pc ones. I just prefer the controls overall. And I like all the VURec changes occuring in the playground build lately. Hope it leads to a more accurate (to an actual ps2) emulator soon .

That makes no sense you can change the control for the PC version to whatever you wants....
Anyway sorry this is off topic.

[jos708]

I think bositman is right. I thought the whole purpose of pcsx2 was to emulate the ps2 to an extend as close as posible. And not insert hack after hack so some games are playable. Of course this will make a lot of people happy cos they can play there favorite game but does this contribute to anything in the long-term anyway ?

[rama2]

Guys, the hacks are in for everyone. That means coders as well.
If my game is broken, and a hack fixes it, i know where to look.
Its a way of documentation as well.

Untill the real bugs are taken care of, they'll stay.

[Prafull]

I give you example.Rockstar games were broken from 370-390.And thanks to PP they are working better than *****ty slower 351-369

Actually that wasnt due to PP. It was discovered by Hammer83 and its just one line in the code which was changed by Ref as an experiment to make God of War work a bit better.

BETA Discussion Thread - Read 1st post

Anyway, I feel this thread is pretty close to being closed. I will talk to Refraction in this regard soon.

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[hockland]

Prafull: I apologise in advance for speaking off topic, but what has happened to refraction? Haven`t seen a single post from him in quite some time now (2 months atleast I think). Least in this forum anyway, I`ve not checked the others.

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[echosierra]

Originally Posted by jos708

I think bositman is right. I thought the whole purpose of pcsx2 was to emulate the ps2 to an extend as close as posible. And not insert hack after hack so some games are playable. Of course this will make a lot of people happy cos they can play there favorite game but does this contribute to anything in the long-term anyway ?

This is true, but the development is a cycle. Enough game-specific hacks can be generalized into a few hacks, which hopefully lead to the root cause being identified and corrected. Then most of the hacks are removed because they aren't needed, and the cycle repeats.

[cottonvibes]

rama2 and echosierra pretty much said what i was going to say.

if someone says something like "the gt4 hack fixes this blablablabla in another game"
then we know the cause of that problem.

anyways, in the last updates i was trying to fix the gt4 problem to not use the hack. but the problem seems uglier than i thought.

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[NB Ranger]

Latest SVN (390) test results:
Kingdom Hearts 2 - 5 FPS boost, grey screens SEEM less frequent.
XenoSaga Ep. 1 - 7 FPS boost
Shadow Hearts - HUGE FPS boost, artifacts less present, seems completely playable now (must finish to add to sig though)
FFXII - 15 FPS boost in the Rogue Tomato mission (45 up to now 60 FPS!). However, it seems to randomly semi-hang, as in hanging then recovering (acts like when you save-state), and does this VERY frequently (5 times during that one mission on average)

This SVN seems to imrove a lot of things, and I'll be using it often. Note that all these comparisons are made between 0.9.4 and 0.9.5 SVN 390.

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[cottonvibes]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

anyways, in the last updates i was trying to fix the gt4 problem to not use the hack. but the problem seems uglier than i thought.

finally fixed it
1 gamefix hack down, 2 to go

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