How Old Is The Grand Canyon? Park Service Won’t Say

[Player-X]

HOW OLD IS THE GRAND CANYON? PARK SERVICE WON’T SAY

Orders to Cater to Creationists Makes National Park Agnostic on Geology

Washington, DC — Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park, according to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).
“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”
In a letter released today, PEER urged the new Director of the National Park Service (NPS), Mary Bomar, to end the stalling tactics, remove the book from sale at the park and allow park interpretive rangers to honestly answer questions from the public about the geologic age of the Grand Canyon. PEER is also asking Director Bomar to approve a pamphlet, suppressed since 2002 by Bush appointees, providing guidance for rangers and other interpretive staff in making distinctions between science and religion when speaking to park visitors about geologic issues.
In August 2003, Park Superintendent Joe Alston attempted to block the sale at park bookstores of Grand Canyon: A Different View by Tom Vail, a book claiming the Canyon developed on a biblical rather than an evolutionary time scale. NPS Headquarters, however, intervened and overruled Alston. To quiet the resulting furor, NPS Chief of Communications David Barna told reporters and members of Congress that there would be a high-level policy review of the issue.
According to a recent NPS response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by PEER, no such review was ever requested, let alone conducted or completed.
Park officials have defended the decision to approve the sale of Grand Canyon: A Different View, claiming that park bookstores are like libraries, where the broadest range of views are displayed. In fact, however, both law and park policies make it clear that the park bookstores are more like schoolrooms rather than libraries. As such, materials are only to reflect the highest quality science and are supposed to closely support approved interpretive themes. Moreover, unlike a library the approval process is very selective. Records released to PEER show that during 2003, Grand Canyon officials rejected 22 books and other products for bookstore placement while approving only one new sale item — the creationist book.
Ironically, in 2005, two years after the Grand Canyon creationist controversy erupted, NPS approved a new directive on “Interpretation and Education (Director’s Order #6) which reinforces the posture that materials on the “history of the Earth must be based on the best scientific evidence available, as found in scholarly sources that have stood the test of scientific peer review and criticism [and] Interpretive and educational programs must refrain from appearing to endorse religious beliefs explaining natural processes.”

“As one park geologist said, this is equivalent of Yellowstone National Park selling a book entitled Geysers of Old Faithful: Nostrils of Satan,” Ruch added, pointing to the fact that previous NPS leadership ignored strong protests from both its own scientists and leading geological societies against the agency approval of the creationist book. “We sincerely hope that the new Director of the Park Service now has the autonomy to do her job.”

This is really getting out of hand, I would prefer to be offended by truth than comforted by lies.

[darth sephiroth]

don't call it lies PX. That's pretty insultive to the religious people.

But honestly, if Bush and his Administration doesn't believe it they can simply just not read it instead of censoring it... The american government is seriously making extreme look-alikes with the soviet union, just as a religious dictatorship not a plain and simple dictatorship.

It's like every news i hear from the US makes me more glad i was not born in that country. To name it "Land of the free" was maybe valid the first few years after slavery was abolished, but it seems to have died completely decades ago. I think the time the so called "freedom" of in the country died was about the time the US drawed up the exaggerated militant anti-communism.

I'm exited to see if the next election will at all take place or if Bush will officially declare himself dictator.

[Coolsvilleman]

Originally Posted by darth sephiroth

don't call it lies PX. That's pretty insultive to the religious people.

Well it's called a "lie of omission". Basically when you know you should tell someone something but you don't because it will hurt you.

Btw: how old is the grand canyon?

[darth sephiroth]

To please both sides of the case, let me put it this way: it's older than humanity :P

only joking. Here is a quote from wikipedia

Originally Posted by wikipedia

The principal consensus among geologists is that the Colorado River basin (of which the Grand Canyon is a part) has developed in the past 40 million years and that the Grand Canyon itself is probably less than five to six million years old (with most of the downcutting occurring in the last two million years). The result of all this erosion is one of the most complete geologic columns on the planet.

[dn]

this is just.. appalling. i'm very riled up over this!

darth sephiroth: read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins (go to his official site richardawkins.net to read the first chapter for free) to see why we can't afford to *****-foot around the religious any more. as this incident clearly demonstrates, the religious are getting beyond a joke with the lengths they are prepared to go to insult those seeking the truth.

[Cid Highwind]

This is beyond words.

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,”

So much for freedom of speech and freedom of religion. -_-

[Player-X]

If anyone is in the general area, please go to the Grand Canyon national park and ask about it's age, if they refuse to answer tell them you are offended by them not telling you.

[RZetlin]

Our dear Administration will declare that the Earth is the center of the solar system, babies comes from storks and the moon is made out of cheese.

[Clements]

I say let them mention the Flood - if they can provide peer-reviewed scientific evidence that such a flood took place... Oh wait, there are no such journals, and there will never be any, because the evidence overwhelmingly contradicts that the flood ever happened.

I sometimes wonder how much longer the US can remain the World's only Superpower with the current government and a sizeable proportion of the population not taking the Sciences seriously enough, and allowing the presentation of Mythology (often just the Christian side of things to boot) as viable alternative explanations to their children. Thankfully, a lot of the attempts of fundamentalists to promote their agenda haven't succeeded in US courts, but they will keep trying.

These fundamentalists, who appear to say that they are 'making it fair' (although in truth their agenda is to spread their favoured myth system to the vulnerable by undermining long-accepted Scientific ideas that are backed up by peer-reviewed evidence from multiple disciplines) are in my opinion a growing threat to the future of the US as a leader in the Scientific field.

[Seta-San]

this is just retardation. i can see why they suspend teaching evolution in high school which is for two reasons... (one, it's a complex science which is better studied in college, and two, who really knows that happened some trillions of years ago when everything first came into being... everything we have is practically hypothesis) but not giving a good estimate age for a bunch of rocks is just plain stupid. Any Carbon testing will tell you how old all the stuff is in no unclear terms.

[Cid Highwind]

If you withhold them from teachings about evolution because they aren't intelligent enough to understand it, they shall always remain stupid.

Everyone has math classes right? They get to learn to work with the Pythagoras formula, however only when you choose to take the advanced classes several years later you will be taught why exactly the formula is the way it is, and you're going to prove it is right. For the people who merely need to know it for practical uses, only the basics are needed, not the whole underlying reasoning and scientific calculations.

[Player-X]

Originally Posted by Seta-San

this is just retardation. i can see why they suspend teaching evolution in high school which is for two reasons... (one, it's a complex science which is better studied in college, and two, who really knows that happened some trillions of years ago when everything first came into being... everything we have is practically hypothesis) but not giving a good estimate age for a bunch of rocks is just plain stupid. Any Carbon testing will tell you how old all the stuff is in no unclear terms.

As Cid said teaching the basics and teaching the details are different things, it's better to teach the general idea in high school so the colleges don't have to waste the time teaching it before getting into the details it also helps kids get a head start on a particular subject.

I think they are more theories than hypothesis when it comes to the geological past of the earth, I would agree with you that just not giving the truth about age of some rocks or a rock formations because it might "offend" people is just unreasonably stupid.

[CKemu]

This is getting as retarded as "dinosaurs are just made up, they never existed", mind you - I do think many Americans are taught the world is flat, and if they sail too far they fall of the edge of the world

Religion whilst I can tolerate it to some extend, should never push truth to one side to support itself...oh waaait, what am I saying, magical man in sky, walking on water, floods that didn't happen, Earth made in 6 days...hmpff!

[Boltzmann]

Originally Posted by CKemu

oh waaait, what am I saying, magical man in sky, walking on water, floods that didn't happen, Earth made in 6 days...hmpff!

You've offended my religious belief in Spider Man! I'll sue you!

Oh wait, it's not Spider Man you're ditching, is it? In this case you're free to go ahead. I only care about protecting my stupid and irrational beliefs.

[Labraid]

Hmm I can tell ow old it is....
Older than you!

[Player-X]

Hmm I can tell ow old it is....
Older than you!

Can we consider that spamming?

[Labraid]

no Because u like it in the butt

[RF]

Originally Posted by Labraid

no Because u like it in the butt

Enjoy a nice one day ban, it would of been two if I didnt happen to forget to change the pulldown menu.

[industrian]

Originally Posted by RF

Enjoy a nice one day ban...

You have read his other posts, right?

[Player-X]

Looking at his other posts and the fact that he digs old stuff up to insult people I would also be in favor of a permban for him.
And for your information Labraid I am bisexual but I don't take it up the butt.

back on topic:

You have to wonder when will the fundamentalists try to have Nasa remove parts that say the earth is is not the center of the universe or the world is not flat, they already have managed to get them to remove information about the big bang from their website.