do all we change? do we?

[MiretanK]

hmm, ok, maybe i'll get banned cause i'm one of whose makes questions using my existentialism' crisis or spread thoughts of pessimism (maybe I haven't shown this face yet, but i'm sure I could be the leader of the Pessimists, hey Killjoy! :P), but I'm in a weird phase, adolescence, trying to build a style of myself and oh, so, how much I could talk to different and friendly people sharing thoughts and concepts, better for me :P

I'm not a guy which is satisfied with himself, then I always think that i need to change, but I just can't- I always hate me cause I promise myself that i'll change but... remains the same. and there I am, the same idiot as ever :P sometimes I think we cannot change with force- i mean, we can't change being forced, but something that grows along the years, and that stuff.. then, when u see, you're the person you've always wanted to be.
But I also think that we may change at moment we wish. No exceptions. Like, hmm, I say "hey, tomorrow I'll be other Mire, I'll be what I want to be and I'll be like this forever", then, with some power of will, you change...

Thats it, i think i wasn't clear enough but, do we change? can we change our most deep essence?

[snakekain]

You can always change, but of course depending on what you want to change to, why, and how you do it, the problem is that a lot of people tries to be good but the wrong way and for the wrong reason, that's why they change to worse not better, so for example, if you want to change to better for people say you are good, you'll be bad if you're out of their sight, right?
And if you make good from your mind without knowing god's instruction you'll make disasters, for example if the government doesn't kill the killers just prison them 'for mercy' they get out and kill much more people, if we killed him we wouldn't have that much kills so 1 kill --- too much kill, what defines good here, god haven't created us and left us without telling what to do in our life to live in justice, god told us what's justice through his prophets, and we just define justice with our own minds and it always tending wrong and unfair and not justice at all.
So if you want to change to good:
1 - be good for god who sees you all the time, not for people which you get out of their sight.
2 - follow god's prophets to know what's good.
if you want to be bad:
don't follow god's prophets that'll make you bad even if the appearence is not.
There's a lot of complications about which religion is the true one, but if you truly seek the truth god'll guide you to it.
don't ignore islam because of all the complications, it might be the true one, just ask god to guide you to the truth, when you get to the true religion you really really change.
May god be with you

[_E_]

uh...

Change can be voluntary or involuntary. The surrounding circumenstances around you might force you to change, even when you don't feel it. But however the case may be, you should be always there to judge yourself ; since change isn't always for the good, it could be a bad change.

And to the above poster, many people here aren't familiar, nor are they interested in religons, nor do they "believe" in "god" - despite questioning his existance during a tragedy and/or blaming their bad luck on him

Yours,
-Elly

[Cid Highwind]

At least he's got good intentions

I prefer to be good for fellow humans instead of a god anyway.

Originally Posted by Elly

And to the above poster, many people here aren't familiar, nor are they interested in religons, nor do they "believe" in "god" - despite questioning his existance during a tragedy and/or blaming their bad luck on him

Or worse: Cursing with his name while trying to teach your children to respect him... *sigh* Parents

What's with the 'gone' status btw?

Btw, Mire, I think everyone can change, just don't force it, eventually it will come. Or were you talking about evolution?

[Syed Fawad]

Sersiously, try reading this book "Seven Habits of Highly Effective Ppl" (Stephen Covey).

And a person is almost always changing. Once you're determined to know what is right and what is not, and look out to search for faith......you'll start to change. And, a very good and close friend can change you too. Besides this, as everyone said, the surroundings of a person can change him too.

You can try to change in a discrete manner too. Create a roadmap kind of thing. List down the things you want in yourself. Try to focus on which things are achievable. Remove the things which you think are just not possible to change (facial features etc )

But try getting a good friend. A very close friend. Its a catalyst for this change thingy.
And that does NOT mean a girlfriend. Not AT ALL. A close friend just like your brother....or even a sister can work. Trust me. I am so confident because I have myself changed quite a bit and am undergoing change....

And as snakekain said, I am using my faith and belief in the Lord God to guide me in this change. I am using the Roadmap He designed for us humans.

[Grv]

One's characteristics and personality stem mostly from influences of your autonomic processes, formed by your nature and your experiences. Some of your characteristics can be changed, if you can change their subconscious state to a conscious state, but this requires either an extensive amount of time and work, or a sudden mental realization of some sort, triggered by thoughts and experiences. This works differently for everyone, I assume.

For me, conscious commitment to self-reflection, and my neverending quest for self-awareness have changed me drastically. I'm still changing for the better.

Originally Posted by Syed Fawad

Sersiously, try reading this book "Seven Habits of Highly Effective Ppl" (Stephen Covey).

.. if you can stand the contradictions, generalizations, blind faith, and arrogance displayed in there. Don't let me discourage you from reading it if you like the title, though. I read it on recommendation of one of my business-mentors, who was a former nr 1 in the top-10 IT figureheads in Holland. The book holds a few nice truths, but just as many deceptions. Perhaps it would inspire someone who can't change on his/her own. It certainly would be a good place to start, I suppose.

It is, however, still one of those self-help books. Eventually, you'll either love the concept or frown upon them all. I belong to the latter nowadays; the majority of these books are written with fraudistic goals, and my standards are ridiculously high.

[MiretanK]

thanks for all your ideas, they're helping me a lot. I have read a lot of books about subconscience and relateds, and have learned a bunch of things too. Now I understand that I just need to WANT the change, and go after it. With some power of will, i may gain something. the thing is, I think i'm not able to do it. I still think if isn't just a waste of time if I start to change. And It'll cost so much sacrificies, break some habits, and may lose some companions.. btw, thats other point. when you change, it won't be only you the affected. the others around will feel that the things aren't the same as before and may occur some disappointments and things alike... and I'm that type of person that needs to be flattering the ones I like, and this may conflict in what I do want to change.

so, everybody here have already passed by this stage i am now?

[Syed Fawad]

I didn pass it, I found myself almost falling into it
And I am STILL trying to get out from the depth I have fallen into so far!

[Grv]

Originally Posted by Miretank

the thing is, I think i'm not able to do it.

Then you won't. Start fixing that attitude, first.

Originally Posted by Miretank

And It'll cost so much sacrificies, break some habits, and may lose some companions..

A lot of people don't think the end is worth the effort, and when they try, they are likely to give up because of this. The truth is, you need to be a fanatic of some sort. You need to be able to give yourself that extra push no matter what. Discipline is what you need, which for most people is really hard to acquire, and different for each.

Originally Posted by Miretank

btw, thats other point. when you change, it won't be only you the affected. the others around will feel that the things aren't the same as before and may occur some disappointments and things alike... and I'm that type of person that needs to be flattering the ones I like, and this may conflict in what I do want to change.

Consider this: are you trying to change for better or worse?

The thing is that you're absolutely right about people around you noticing differences, but you're only displaying a pessimistic view on the situation. With improvement, there's always a build-up of confidence. I don't know about you, but I'm the leader-type-guy who gets to motivate and inspire others, among other things. Displaying this confidence (as well as displaying the improvements you have made) can be very inspiring to others, and will make them feel more secure around you.

Originally Posted by Miretank

so, everybody here have already passed by this stage i am now?

And what stage would that be? I don't know you, but the impression you give me is that you're either describing a stage of denial, or a stage indicating you still have a long way to go. The first I passed long ago, but the second is true for each and everyone. There is always room for improvement.






Also, upon re-reading your first post, I'd like to point out to you..

Originally Posted by Gaurav

Some of your characteristics can be changed

..the emphasize on some, because of these lines:

Originally Posted by Miretank

can we change our most deep essence?

Originally Posted by Miretank

Now I understand that I just need to WANT the change, and go after it.

I'm not sure what you understand to be one's deep essence, as it may as well be some of the characteristics that seem superficial to me. I don't believe we can change our deepest essence (at least not willingly), which is purely guided by our autonomic processes, fully formed by our nature and nurture. Quite frankly, we can hardly change everything (that describes us) to a conscious state of operation, which would be needed for it to be changed by will.

[Demigod]

Originally Posted by Miretank

thanks for all your ideas, they're helping me a lot. I have read a lot of books about subconscience and relateds, and have learned a bunch of things too. Now I understand that I just need to WANT the change, and go after it. With some power of will, i may gain something. the thing is, I think i'm not able to do it. I still think if isn't just a waste of time if I start to change. And It'll cost so much sacrificies, break some habits, and may lose some companions.. btw, thats other point. when you change, it won't be only you the affected. the others around will feel that the things aren't the same as before and may occur some disappointments and things alike... and I'm that type of person that needs to be flattering the ones I like, and this may conflict in what I do want to change.

Well, in my opinion you have to let change come naturally. Forcing change will most often end up in failure. It's the reason most, if not all extreme diets fail; they're too sudden and drastic a change and people often times go back to their old habits out of frustration. As with dieting, it's not the change you should be focusing on, but your attitude towards it. You have to change in a way that'll fit in with your current lifestyle and you have to do it slowly, step by step. Most important, the change has to be something you enjoy and want to do. Human beings are beings of pleasure, pattern, and adaptation. Anything that is unpleasurable to you, breaks your pattern of life, or done too quickly will most often fail. Change is not so much about willpower or force, but slow, gradual integration into your existing lifestyle.

Of course some things cannot be done gradually (e.g., quitting smoking), in which case you need to force the change. However, even with smoking it's most often the habits and attitudes that have to change. My sister used to smoke and she said she smoked mostly out of habit (after you eat, you smoke).

As for your concern about affecting other people, don't let that bother you. If they're truly your friends they'll still respect you, no matter the change

[MiretanK]

ow, talking directly about myself.
I'm that type of guy that tries to be friend of everyone, that feels so bad when is reject and have mortal pain when damage someone. Also a boy that dreams so much with fantasies, and have tasted already that life does not come with all of you want, but what it wants to offer. and I suffer so much with this.
I suffer cause i'm a perfectionist. I want everything perfect. When I start to do something, and this something gets wrong, or I stop to do the something or finishes it worst as the beginning. That guy that is 8 or 80, never a middle-reason. BTW, my last sig was (even i don't remember it very well) "Everything for the beauty of the game, Lose, Draw or Win - I don't care". For me, its just the show; the magneficiency; the wonderful appearance. Don't matter the content, just the package.

I depend so much of the others. So much. After a lot of things, I have the thought that, nowadays, I fear the day I will die, cause never more I will see the people I love. And I say to you: I love a lot of things, and persons. I love the majority people around me - I love them like brothers, and I always wish the best for them. Then I think "when I die, I won't have them anymore... It'll be so sad" then I get depressed. Its strange, but I'm that type of person that likes everybody. I'm that type of person that tries to be friendly with everyone, even near or so far away from (I have a lot friends (truly friends) in others states).

But then I say I have a lot friends near me that betray me. Vipers. The last prob occurred was made by a guy that I've considerate soo much, a truly brother of mine, then he tried to fire me with an other friend, telling lies about me to him. Thats so bad - I was betrayed by someone I love(d).

After all this ****, the final conclusion is that all I wanted is to be a distant person, a lonely wolf. No dependant of anything, and any one. Be only myself. Be quiet, not "sociable" as I am. Not this stupid goofy guy I am, that do stupid things to see other person smiling. Goofy guy that is a donkey in real word, can't do a single thing right. I'd like to be powerful, to be respected by everyone. Do things by my own, and never cry.

All this is dream, I'll never be able to reach that state. I was born to be a guy that tries to be nice for everyone, that loves every girl that appears in sight, that fears of damaging someone.

Ok, I have said so much and I'll get ashamed for saying all this things that comes from deep of me. But I won't delete it, I need help to understand myself - I don't know why this, since some day I'll die and turn back to dust - but I want to understand myself.

[Eface]

pathetic. Sorry to say, but with that attitude you won't get far. I'm also the kind of guy who tries to be friendly with everyone. And i'm already 22 years of lonely wolf. I can tell that you can't get far like this. You will have to find strength within yourself to pull it off. Strength to walk on no matter what happens, no matter what people think. Walk your own path, through all the confusion and hurting. Show people that you will be stonger for everyone, no matter what.

... is how i think

[The General]

Are you asking is it good to change our ways, to lived better lives?

If so, of course. Change, change for the better.

[MiretanK]

@Demigod: SOMETIMES i share the same idea as you forcing a change could not be good, cause the natural ways always seems better than forced ones.

@EFace: I understand but so seems I'll never be as I truly wish to be

edit: I was reading my 1st post and I did specified one thing. When I say "deep essence", i mean.. what you are, really. i.e, say that I was born to be sociable. then can I change to a lonely wolf? hmm, smth like this..

[Cid Highwind]

You can't just say 'I want to become a lonely wolf' and *poof*, you are one. Such things you can only realise when you already are one because of gradual change, not a sudden one.

But tell me? Would you feel happy knowing you are trying to be something that you are not, something that goes against your complete nature?

[Grv]

Originally Posted by Miretank

@Demigod: SOMETIMES i share the same idea as you forcing a change could not be good, cause the natural ways always seems better than forced ones.

.. That depends on how you try to "force" changes. IMHO, Demigod correctly described why not all, but lots of people (lacking the necessary discipline, mind you) fail. There are two ways to change and succeed, and Elly named them right. You can change involuntary, which I assume is what you refer to as the "natural ways", i.e. (by definition) not having a (willfull) say in the matter yourself. You can also change voluntary, but make no mistake: this doesn't mean you have to force it the hard way. Wanting to change can be as good an incentive for change as any other, you just need to treat this desire the way your personality reacts best to it. For most people, this means putting in some effort, while keeping to the rules Demigod described.

Quite frankly, neither way could be described as the "best" way. Individuality strikes: to each his/her own. Everyone reacts differently to changes within different timeframes.

Originally Posted by Miretank

@EFace: I understand but so seems I'll never be as I truly wish to be

Keep in mind, though, that you're still 16. If I can take an example of myself and others I know, you'll still change your views and ideas a lot if you keep actively thinking about it this way. The thing is that one day you might consider how you wish to be (or, by then: wished) as pathetic as Eface thinks of you now.

Originally Posted by Miretank

edit: I was reading my 1st post and I did specified one thing. When I say "deep essence", i mean.. what you are, really. i.e, say that I was born to be sociable. then can I change to a lonely wolf? hmm, smth like this..

Ah. Then the last paragraph in my previous post remains. You could still change, ofcourse, but good luck finding a way to do that willingly. I don't think that will ever be within homo sapiens' range. Perhaps something will in the next evolutionary stage?

[Eface]

You become pathetic if you don't do what your nature is. In your nature, lie your natural skills. Yes, you can have other skills by going in against your nature, but they won't be as numerous and wel trained, because they're not your forte. That's why i call it pathetic. Just become good at what you do, others can do the other stuff.

A friend of mine is always focussed on outward succes, and sees himself a lone wolf too... i shattered his dreams before him by explaining his lies to him. He's having a hard time right now, because he doesn't know what to think. At least he came back to his old self, what he used to be, in just 1 day. He told me that it's hard, letting go of what you want to be, and just being yourself.

In the end you will be happier just being yourself instead, and become the best self you can be. It's because then, you know that it's really you

[Grv]

.. according to Eface.

Miretank, while what Eface says is true for many, just know that there are also plenty of people who feel miserable in their usual routines, even after puberty. When you've matured some more, you'll know best whether you wish to do something about yourself or not.