AD Vision cracks down on anime downloads

[RZetlin]

AD Vision violates the first amendment.
Posted by Alexander Wehr on June 30, 2004 at 12:55 AM (printer friendly)


Allow me to present a brief background for this article.

I am an anime fanatic, and as such i collect fansubs, which are files produced by fairly recording Japanese tv, then working over a period of weeks to translate and subtitle it to allow loyal fans in other nations to enojy those works which are not available to them. There are many nations which have their own fansubbers, and their translations could be easily argued to be works on their own.
In the case of anime, however, there are companies in the united states which license the material for eventual release on DVD, the preparation for which often takes years, through which loyal patrons must suffer waiting.

AD Vision is one of those licensing companies.

This brings us to present...

Recently, i logged onto a fan community i normally visit and stared at the screen in astonishment as i watched it fall offline. Not offline, but from existence as a domain completely.

*That site* contained an irc chat server, forums, databases, and a bit torrent tracker for users to upload torrents of fansubs to share with others.
It could most certainly fall under the definition of a third party host or carrier under the DMCA and be ruled free of liability because its maintainers did not participate in or encourage any infringing activity.

This did not apparently matter to AD Vision's executives, for they issued C&D notices not to the domain's operators themselves, but their webhosting company, which promptly pulled the account without any further inquiry or challenge.

This turn of events never involved a court, or even a single subpoena. By the time the site's administrators received word, the site's host had already begun pulling the account.

Apparently corporate entities and copyright interests are exempt from due process if they dislike what you say or do online. Rather than simply skirt due process by initiating 500 unrelated cases with a single subpoena, the new trick is to simply wave a fraudulent suit at your carriers to destroy your website and therefore stifle free speech and cultural exchange.

If copyright infringement is to be alleged, it should be formally laid out in a suit or criminal charge, but apparently they are allowed to simply govern independently of our justice system and determine themselves what is "permitted" to exist as a webpage.

When a hacker invades your webservers and destroys your site you're allowed to pursue criminal charges, but these people are allowed to do the exact equivalent and more simply because they figured out how to avoid courts.

I urge you to boycott AD Vision's products, and to contact congress regarding preventing this scenario from happening again as it has played out.

Personally I think AD Vision is wasting time.

If the mega RIAA can't destory P2P want makes them think they can be successful?

[l3illyl3ob]

*That site* was filled to the rim of american DVD rips. That's as wrong as copying the matrix and sending it out to all your buddies. This isn't about fansubs, but about the illegal distribution of american DVDs. I say, more power to ADV

[BouncerX]

Combined effort of many > the effort of one.

[_E_]

Ok,...that site isnt dead yet and will be hosted on another host. Since it contains tons of licenced anime (including hentai ), any referrals to it will be removed.

Yours,
-Elly

[Death Metal]

Originally Posted by l3illyl3ob

I say, more power to ADV

You know, ADV acts pretty much like a parasite. They "make use" of fansubbers to see what's popular and only then buy the licenses. If they condemn fansubs the way they do, relying on them to check on the popularity of shows looks too much convenient.

[l3illyl3ob]

who says they condemn fansubs? What does any of this have to do with fansubs? I've heard from various execs that they're gratefull for the fansub scene since they spread awareness of anime. I've never heard anyone at ADV criticise any of the fansubbers other than the ones who keep on subbing after a liscense is obtained. As i've said a bajillion times before, this is not about fansubs, but most likely, the illegal dvd rips posted on *********

[Dark Zero]

ADV has all the rights to persue what they doing, they afterall, do own the licenses for stated anime. How would any of you naysayers feel in their shoes? I think its mostly those fanboys that can't get their precious licensed anime no more, so they *****. One thing that I do have to agree with, ADV shouldn't or can't complain about their licenses in other countries if, well it's not licensed there. But, what else can one say.....

[Death Metal]

Of course I don't disconsider anything of what you guys have stated, but there is something that should be taken in account, considering licenses are granted not over some language in which said product will be translated into, but over a limited area of coverage for that product (like a country).

It's so easy to think that everything revolves around USA, but, well, they don't. When we hear that some anime got licensed, by ADV for instance, obviously it means that said show was licensed for the USA (and Canada I think) only. I doesn't mean that such obtained license will automatically apply as well to any other country where english is the primary language, so the viewers should start importing american DVDs if they want to watch it. This concept doesn't exist. that's precisely why I think that one shouldn't exactly blame fansub distributors if they insist on distributing series even after they get licensed, but the viewers themselves. If they reside in a country where said obtained license applies to, that's when they should think about dropping it and start supporting the company that has obtained it. I think it has to do with conscience.

I'll take myself as an example. I live in a country where we simply don't buy any licenses. I mean, asian animation doesn't get considered as business here (it is actually, but not expressively. We have a few things, and the few things that are licensed here I do own the original). Therefore, I admit I strongly rely on fansubs to watch anything regarding anime, specially some more exotic series that fansubs in my language don't even sub, so I only have the english option -- and let's suppose it applies the same to many people everywhere around globe. So, supposedly by your views, that means that, while an USA license hasn't been bought, it's OK for me to watch the fansubs. Once determined series gets licensed, I, a non-american watcher, lose the right to watch it together with american viewers just because an american company has licensed it [considering the series is subbed in english]? I mean, a whole lot of fansub groups which even aren't natural english speakers sub in english for the sole purpose of hitting a higher, world-wide audience, not being restrictive to americans only. Still, comes ADV (for instance, again), which is an american company, licenses it, and the whole world has to suffer because of it. That's not a fair line of reasoning. Personally, I would never import an american DVD while I live where I live because of a simple reason: I don't earn my money in American Dollars. By adopting importation, obviously I would pay a higher amount than the standard price with all the involved proccesses, and would totally be in a complete disadvantage. I think that's a point of relevance. (Please understand it's in NO WAY something particular against USA companies, obviously it's nothing like that. I just think that other viewers in other countries shouldn't be affected by american licenses, just because some series was subbed in english, just because some series was subbed in english.) Now, if I lived in the USA, I'm all for supporting license buyers, so I'd certainly do it.

I've used that merely as an example as to why I think that site shouldn't have been shut. If there are people downloading stuff when they shouldn't, well it's not everyone else's fault.

Originally Posted by l3illyl3ob

What does any of this have to do with fansubs?

Everything. What I mean is that "that site" was composed roughly of 95% of fansubs, and not DVD-rips. Wolf's Rain, for example, wasn't packaged of DVD-rips, but the entire series subbed by fansub groups. The few DVD-rips were either hentai or some old movie/OVA, but even the majority of those were fansubbed works that were realeased before being licensed. But OK, that doesn't make it any more excusable, so if that's the case, ADV could have asked to remove only the DVD-rips from there, but then again, ADV doesn't even deal with hentai, AFAIK.

Of course I can be totally wrong if licenses are dealt in any other way, so in that case please just disconsider my post.

[(F)ragnarok(F)]

good points there metal death. i for one dont even download anime anymore, but wat metal death says is right. it wont be fair to ppl outside of those countries whos got the liscense n to those who dont have the extra money to buy the anime.

[l3illyl3ob]

95%? Have you ever been to their dual audio section? Practically every popular anime series that were released on dvd were there. Including ADV's own. Again, why shouldn't ADV take action against that?

[Dark Zero]

Originally Posted by l3illyl3ob

95%? Have you ever been to their dual audio section? Practically every popular anime series that were released on dvd were there. Including ADV's own. Again, why shouldn't ADV take action against that?

He probably ment the series themselves that were hosted are of fansubbed PRE-ADV licensing. For example, "X" series can be all fansubbed, and then later on ADV picks up a license, so in that respect, fansub was done BEFORE a license was picked up, I believe that's the perspective he's refering too. But ADV has a right to do what they are doing, but one thing I wonder is. If they so anal about the entire process, why not ban ANY anime being fansubbed, since if you look at it this way, most of the fansubs aren't based on ANY ADV work, since they aren't dvd rips, but rather tv rips of the original, but thats only an example to argue about Another thing, I don't see how a fansub is a "lost sale" if the dvd isn't even out, or even released for months on. It might even promote it, another take is that possibly they could enforce thier ways ONCE something is publicly released for sale, but again thats another take on this entire debate.

In the end, ADV has all the rights they are persuing, where their licenses hold that is But another thing to ponder. IF ADV has a series that is licensed and is being subbed by swedish people in English, hosted on a server over there, should their rule apply? I would feel it doesn't as their license should be void there, but then again, internet is hosted world wide, so laws such as that are sketchy. But on that note, if ADV persues such, then what is there to say if a company licensed "X" series in sweden, would then the swedish company be violating ADV? Think about it

[l3illyl3ob]

breaking foreign laws usually results in a trial in their court system. ADV could file suit, but they wouldn't be achieving anything by doing so. The fansubs are being downloaded by people who can't get the DVD, or can't understand it, so ADV isn't losing anyone to the breaking of such a law. It would waste resources on ADV's part.

I'm aware of what he said and meant. But they're still distributing DVD rips of ADV's, and ADV has the right to be angry. Even if they're offering anime to people who couldn't otherwise get it, they're offering other things that just simply shouldn't be offered. Especially since the anime industry is just now starting to pick up in america, and currently anime is probably the second most easily accessable illegal material on the internet right after music. The music industry is strong enough to take such a blow, but with such wild and widespread distribution of anime DVDs across the internet, the anime industry has something big to gain in stopping this.

[DarkAurora]

I don't agree with ADV Films' actions because I think they should go through due process just like the RIAA did. However, on the other hand I can't say I support fansubs. It's a copyrighted product in Japan and just because you don't speak Japanese (I don't speak Japanese) doesn't give you the right to download the anime for free. There are sites out on the web where you can import anime from Japan if you don't want to wait for it to be licensed and translated.

[l3illyl3ob]

Meh, but you aren't taking away from their profits. Why would we buy their **** when we can't understand it? And they don't have to go through the due process, because it was a private agreement between two sides that caused this. It's not like ADV can just go in and shut **** down. The host had to agree to shut it down, and since they did so (allowable due to the TOS), it yields the same results while not going through lengthy and expensive (for both sides) court processes.

I don't get you people whining about due process, it's incredibly contradicting. You *****ed and whined like nothing when the RIAA subpoenaed all those people, because it's the first time any company has taken such action. You hated it. Now, when a company takes the only other alternative, you ***** and whine saying they must go through court? Pick a god damned side. Besides, you have no idea how many rom sites the IDSA/ESA has taken down through a nearly identicle process. Where's the public outcry there? It's just as illegal as what the site in question was doing.

[DarkAurora]

The thing is that the RIAA was suing people for outrageous amounts of money. They weren't just suing for the cost of the music downloaded. That's why people were *****ing about the RIAA.

[Vanit]

Woah that was a big read...

IMO ADV is just licensing what does well in fansubbing and then they ***** because people are still downloading the fansubs. I suppose ADV does have the right to license it, but they should atleast add to the product instead of just redoing something.