Morality poll/question

[Demigod]

Just for fun I thought I'd post a moral question. This one is a modified question from something I got in my philosophy class.

Let's say that one day, while walking down a road you happen to find a clip of money of about $3000. Here is my question then: would you take the money or try to give it back to its owner? Let's say that the money could help you a lot in your life. You can pay off all your debt, pay off your car, and get a new suit to get that job you've always wanted. You can pull your life out of the rut it's in and make it soar to new heights. Furthermore, no one knows that you've found it, and no one ever will. It'll be your little secret. In addition, the owner doesn't even know that it's gone. It belongs to an extremely wealthy man who won't miss it, nor be glad when he gets it back. Moral questions for both sides are:

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If you did take the money then would that make you morally corrupt? Would it make you a bad person? Afterall, it's not your money and you haven't earned it in any way. You've basically stolen someone else's hard-earned money and used it for your own, selfish goals. You're no better than a common thief, a criminal. If you lost a lot of money you'd want the finder to return it to you so why should it be any different here? Honor and nobility is what seperate humans from other animals so by taking the money you'd just be degrading yourself to the level of a beast.

If you're a believer of God then you've also sinned against God and will suffer God's wrath. The devil has tempted you with sin and you've fallen right for it. Is it worth going to hell for improving your mortal life? By taking the money you've betrayed yourself, your beliefs, and those around you who hold to honesty and good will. A poor and humble life will lead to the kingdom of heaven, while a rich and proud one will only lead to destruction.

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If you didn't take the money then would that make you a fool for not taking advantage of such a glorious opportunity? Fate throws you a big bone that can make everything right in your life and you don't take it? Afterall, no one will know and the owner won't even miss it. He'll probably use it on some luxury item anyways. The money would be much better used on you and you'd be able to better serve the community with the improvements in your life. Besides, the owner was a clumsy idiot for losing such a large amount of money and idiots will get what they deserve. Finders keepers, losers weepers. Survival of the fittest is what humanity is all about and you're doing the best you can to survive. Afterall, every man must seek out happiness for himself, despite the suffering of others.

If you're a believe of God then it's obvious that God has given this to you to help you out. Afterall, God takes and gives from all men and he has heard your prayers and pleas and has answered it. He has tore entire kingdoms away from corrupt kings and has given it to the faithful who truly deserve it (Saul -> David). Plus you can donate the money to the church who can use it to help the poor while the owner will only waste it on himself.

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So let's hear it, why would you do? (and please try to rationalize it)

[Dark Watcher]

We will keep it simple. We would post something or go to the nearest buisness and leave a contact number for someone to reclaim a "Missing MONEY CLIP".

Obviously the owner of the clip would know to ask about the money, and we would hear a description before returning it and the money. We would give it up to a months time.

If it is not claimed in a month..then it was meant for us to keep.
If the owner merely wishes the clip and asks not of the money..then it was meant for us to keep.

If the owner does wish to reclaim their clip and money...then we would gladly return it without an ounce of temptation. The Dark Watcher has always been an honorable creature, but we are no fool either.

You will notice that we did not vote....circumstances would effect our choice, and we cannot select both

[_E_]

If you're a believe of God then it's obvious that God has given this to you to help you out.

Rubbish :P, If I believe in god,..then its obvious that God has tested my will AND faith by that money laying on the ground. So yes, my answer is quite obvious. Look for its owner, if he/she wasnt there, then I'd leave it where I found it,...perhaps the one who lost that money is looking for it,...and who knows,..perhaps they DO need that money despretly too.

To sum it up : My goal doesnt justificate my method, If I need some money, then I need to work hard to attain it,...simple as that.

Yours,
-Elly

[Demigod]

Originally Posted by Elly

Rubbish :P, If I believe in god,..then its obvious that God has tested my will AND faith by that money laying on the ground. So yes, my answer is quite obvious. Look for its owner, if he/she wasnt there, then I'd leave it where I found it,...perhaps the one who lost that money is looking for it,...and who knows,..perhaps they DO need that money despretly too.

To sum it up : My goal doesnt justificate my method, If I need some money, then I need to work hard to attain it,...simple as that.

Yours,
-Elly

Yeah, I know that's a very weak religious argument. There are so many contraditions there it would be difficult for any true believer to buy that. Even taking it to donate to the church wouldn't be very "holy" of them.

[upwardexhalebwn]

it all depends on the way of thinking that makes the actions for the picker upper of the money , I probably would find the owner and ask for enough money to buy Me a pack of cherokee cigerattes and a cigeratte lighter with it.

[sniff_381]

I'll take it.... why???

1st. If I'll return it.... anybody could say that it is their money and take it.

2nd. No one would just carelessly lose a $3000

3rd. If it is about Philosophy, I can prove to you that GOD doesn't exist nor sin!

4th. The money would be great of help for me.

5th. It is our id (according to freud) that makes us do our desires, ego; balances the id and superego and also gets into action those in our id, Superego: our conscience... but! to Carl Jung we should follow our instincts.

6th. If it is Moral Theology, it is our Human Nature that tells us to take the money for the same reason in my 1st reason. and also my 2nd... but! we only create sin because it is programmed in our mind that to take something that does not belong to us is bad. It became part of our culture.

7th. Now... Philosophically and Psychologically, only a few would return the money to its owner (if rlly know who the owner of the money is) but then... you are not sure if whose the money rlly was... so you will just pass the sin that supposed to be yours to other.... (making others sin...according to theology... is much of a great sin).

8th. This topic is in the book I had written (not yet published) entitled; Friendship, Love, Sex.... and as I can say... it is our love to our desires that makes us do good or bad... and taking the money will be good or bad only when one used it to something good or bad... example: what if I take the money and Donated it to a charitable institute or the church??? What If I took the money and spend it for nice clothes, gadgets and other stuff..
what's the difference in my two example"questions"?

[GSDragoon]

You've basically stolen someone else's hard-earned money and used it for your own, selfish goals.

How do we know the owner worked hard for the money? If you ask me, most businesses HAVE to cheat to get ahead. The way everyone cheats in society today is just sick. Taxes, money, school, ect... Just think about all the corporate crap going on. Don't tell me the fat, rich ,SOB CEO sitting on top worked hard for his money. Anyways, I'd take it. How is anyone going to know who's money it was?

I'm in a crabby mood if you couldn't tell.

[hellmasterx]

il giveback half of the money and il keep the other half, sounds fair to me

[Kaiser Sigma]

I don't like things that come free, so I wouldn't keep the money... I don't like to help people, so I wouldn't take it in order to report that it's missing. Life is simple when you are a social enemy...

[Boltzmann]

An amazing thing happens: Boltzmann agrees with Dark Watcher

Really, IMO the best course of action would be the one described by DW. It's fair, and compatible with life's contigencial nature.

And for the same reason I'll not vote

[Grv]

I'd keep it.



It's my "secret", so the only one who could be bothered by the "criminal" degree of this act is me, the one person that doesn't give a damn about such personal abstract feeble socially immoral naming. Seeing I'm not troubled with it, and seeing nobody else knows about it, the question of morality ends here.

Does this make me a lowly beast? It is one of my views in life that tell me that the majority of people would act this way (or atleast be tempted), so the question of whether I degrade to something that seperates me from humans is not there to begin with. There is nothing more human than Selfishness. It so happens to be that we share this with many other animal types.

Is it dishonourable? Ouch. To me, social morals and honour are different things. Honour is based on loyalty towards people or social structures, and I'm not automatically loyal to people who leave their belongings on the street like that, nor to any social structure that exists this day, save the contracts I have been associated with. Loyalty is something that needs to be earned through respect or payment, and neither is the case between me and some rich negligent fat-ass I have never met. Automatically, the next loyalties on the personal list kick in, all the way to the last on such a supposed list: one self. So to not take the money would be dishonourable to myself.




Meh. I would be foolish to not take such an oppurtunity.

Do I want such a sudden advantage? I am one who enjoys earning things. Encountering money this way is something I define as chance or luck, and luck is nothing more than a bonus that can be added as an earning of my good deeds I have accomplished so far. In other words: I earned my luck.

Chance is something that is greatly involved in everyone's life. A great number of lives (if not, all) have been influenced by it, unknowingly. To not take this money for the fact that I did not "earn" it through a direct act struggles with the fact that (next to the things that make me "self-made") life has always been partially beneficial --and vice versa-- because of chance, whether we know it or not.


For any non-religious mind (and non-fate believers) to disagree with the existance of chance the way I described is to say that this entire planet is static, not on the move. Every action would be without consequence, and thus without influence on the next thing closest to it. Yeah right. That's like saying molecules around your arm won't move when you wave it around.

[permethium]

il giveback half of the money and il keep the other half, sounds fair to me

Thats exactly what I'll do.

[Proto]

My opinion kinda concides with some of the earlier.

If its a large/medium/short quantity and the owner wants it i would give it back

If its a large/medium quantity and the owner doesnt want it i would donate it to a non religious charity foundation

If its a short quantity and the owner doesnt want it: If he came for the clip id tore apart the money in his face, i always love the face people do when you show them how little you care about money. If he didnt even come for the clip id probably give it for my brother or something. He cares a lot more about money, and id probably lose the money myself in the next hour

[Noxious Ninja]

I say it depends on the amount of money, and my financial condition. If I could find the owner beyond reasonable doubt, expending a reasonable effort (determined by the amount of money), I would return it. I mean, if it's $3000 dollars, that warrants posting a notice in the paper, but if it's only $50, I'd keep it.

If I couldn't find the owner and I really needed the money, I'd keep it.

If I didn't need it, I'd probably donate it to some third-world relief fund.

[Cid Highwind]

It depends.

If it's a purse which also contains personal documents which gives me a trail back to the finder, I'd return it. But if there's not a clue, I can give it to the police, but who'll tell me that it will get back to the owner? Let alone that the owner will contact me to thank me.

Btw, you gotta be stupid to take a purse with 3000 dollars cash in it with you

[upwardexhalebwn]

Yea , but khan think about it what if it was a very tall and wide girl that lost it , and she pleaded with You to give You the money back for a good reward of sex , Personally if I were You I would give the money back .

[Noxious Ninja]

I don't practice fornication, nor do I have any intent to, so for me the answer would be quite simple.

[Grv]

Originally Posted by upwardexhalebwn

Yea , but khan think about it what if it was a very tall and wide girl that lost it , and she pleaded with You to give You the money back for a good reward of sex , Personally if I were You I would give the money back .

lmao, that's like paying $3000 for sex.

There are hookers in amsterdam, of which some are very pretty, who do it for considerably less.

And then there are the breezer sluts who do it for free.

[I-Chan]

I would give it to the police. Probably i would hesitate, but in the end it would make me feel so bad that i would hand it to the authorities. There's no way i can know wether the owner is rich and doesn't care about the money, or if it's a poor guy that retrieved the money from the bank to pay his debts; what i know it's that if it happened to me, it will ruin my life for a long time. Besides, i can't enjoy something i haven't earned. Chance, luck, god's gift... call it whatever you like to to feel comfortable with your action, it's not yours, and you did nothing but pick it from the street to gain it.

When i get home, and undress, and relax in my sofa or on the bed, and enjoy playing with my pc, what makes me smile and feel happy, is the fact that i know that i have a house, clothes, furniture, a pc... because i work hard to pay it. You know, easy to get, easy to forget .

[Grv]

Originally Posted by I-Chan

Besides, i can't enjoy something i haven't earned. Chance, luck, god's gift... call it whatever you like to to feel comfortable with your action, it's not yours, and you did nothing but pick it from the street to gain it.

..

My entire point about chance is that if you feel the way you do now, then why not throw away half of your life now? The way I see it, as a non-religious and non-fate believer, is that existance is based on 2 things (1 thing actually): Logic/Reason/Consequence and Choice (which I believe to be illusional, a complex system of logics imo, which I won't discuss here).

Something happens, because it is triggered by any of these concepts. Now, how many things do you think will happen with consequences of which you have no say about? Things happen to you, in your life, some even to a degree that might be incredibly influencual, that happened by chance, not triggered by your own choice or actions. These things might not be as apparant as the situation DemiGod proposed, but they still are the same. Some of these "chances" (in coördination with your own choice perhaps, jut like choosing to pick up the money) might have delivered you your current home, your job, and the people you've met. You think your own actions, and choice, were all that counts in obtaining such possesions and relations? I don't think so. Think about it, did you really "earn" everything you have today? If not, why do away money you did not "earn" either? (aside from any other reason you have, I'm just talking about the earn part here)

My POV.