Your thoughts on: abortion

[Proto]

Well as you dont like abstract discussions ill go into something more prosaic

Morals are quckly changing in nowadays society (to worse IMO but thats another story) Also, women role on society have seen a drastic change compared to the last decades. Nowadays human priorities have changed drastically. A study in my university revealed that men were much more concerned and interested in getting married and having children that women.

From here we can diverge into two issues:

- This change of priorities means that women is interested more in their improvement as a woman and a human, in mental, laboral and many ways, than having children. Also, society being more relelckless leads to a more lousy moral, namely undesired babies, both by teen and older woman. Certainly a baby would truncate the her development, her posibilities, her power over her own life. On the other hand abortion leads to another truncation of possibilities, and a truncation that wasnt even decided by the baby. How much right does a woman has to decide over a life that isnt her own?

-Violation has become a more common issue in nowadays society. It truncates a woman life out of his own will. It seesm almost rightful to dispose of this charge that wasnt even decided by herself, and which will certainly bring pain to both parts. And disposing from the genetical map from such genes almost seems correct. But, from the side of the baby, he didnt have any fault in this as well, so why do we punish him. Also investigations have demosnstrated that education and society have a more important role in someone personality than genes. And there are plenty of families who are waiting to adopt a baby

So, i want ... your thoughts on abortion.

[_E_]

/me thinks Protonman had his head stuck in a philosophy book and get his head out of it......

Anyways. I am against abortion unless pregnancy endangers the mother's life and puts in critical situation. Otherwise, abortion is another word for "baby killing". Killing is a crime.

Yours,
-Elly

[Proto]

Anyways. I am against abortion unless pregnancy endangers the mother's life and puts in critical situation. Otherwise, abortion is another word for "baby killing". Killing is a crime.

Yeah(dont get me wrong i agree with you) but now many will argue from what point something is considered a human... is it from the conception?... from the 2nd week? from its birth?

IMO its from the conception because the DNA clearly indicates a potential human.

[_E_]

Ah. those are slightly a bit different. Christians ( IIRC, i am not sure) believe that the soul enters the body after 12 weeks. Muslims believe that it take much more than that, Jews have other ideals, and so on.... The point is that those people believe that killing or aborting that child before the he has a soul is okay ( I am not sure about Islam though, I think they also forbidden that too)

Back to the topic, when the sperm meets the ovum, the process of miosis begins and the cells start to manipulate. Its now a living organism, even if its not in the human form yet.

So unless there is a really good cause for abortion, such as the mother's life, I think abortion is a crime.

Yours,
-Elly

[Noxious Ninja]

Originally Posted by Elly

Ah. those are slightly a bit different. Christians ( IIRC, i am not sure) believe that the soul enters the body after 12 weeks. Muslims believe that it take much more than that, Jews have other ideals, and so on.... The point is that those people believe that killing or aborting that child before the he has a soul is okay ( I am not sure about Islam though, I think they also forbidden that too)

The Catholic position, anyway, is that it is impossible to say when the soul enters the body. Thus, the only responsible way to act is to consider life to start at conception, otherwise you might be guilty of murder. I agree completely with that philosophy.

If you think about it, putting the start of life at conception is the only reasonable thing to do, because it is the only possible absolute. A baby is clearly a full-fledged human being a few moments before it is born. It is folly to say that life begins at birth. And is is impossible to fix an absolute point anywhere in between.


Anyway, saying anything about the "Christian" point of few is absolute folly, unless you mean the Catholic Church. There are over 30,000 so-called Christian denominations in the US alone, and their beliefs vary wildly.

[alguna chica]

I disagree & am pro-choice. but I don't want to give reasons because this thread (if it hasn't been done before) always becomes a huge tangle of circular arguments (in my experience).

[Noxious Ninja]

I would love to hear your reasons, since it simply boggles my mind that anybody could accept an abortion for any other reason than if the mother's life is in very grave danger, for the reasons I've stated above.

[Rhombus]

How about the fact that bringing an unwanted child into this world ruins the lives of TWO people. The mother AND the child.

[T.O.F.K.A.Z]

Well taking a persons life can't be qualified as good IMO , but if echos and such show the child will have a handicap or something like that I can understand the reasons of the parents who want an abortion then (it's hard for a child to grow up with a handicap for instance) , but still I say taking a life is actually a task of god's not one which a human should fullfill.

[Mslug]

i think women should have the choice but its a proven fact that women suffer depression after it.

why is there a thread like this, shouldnt this place be a way to escape the probs of normal life. it's kinda depressing.

[Proto]

I disagree & am pro-choice. but I don't want to give reasons because this thread (if it hasn't been done before) always becomes a huge tangle of circular arguments (in my experience).

Well, about 60% of the arguments pro-abortion neglects the rights of the fetus, so to speak that isnt much of a fair fight isnt it?

And well, with the other 40% that talks about the sufferment that the kid would experiment. I disagree with this to a point. First, if the mother doesnt want to see its progress halted there are many families in the queue for adoption, so that isnt an issue. If you talk about depression, abortion leaves much more sequesl, as mslug stated.


Now if the kids are proven to be mentally handicaped then you might as well abort him, as it goes along with the plan.... my plan

[Yeloazndevil]

who cares, a woman has the choice to get an abortion if she wants to. who cares about the rights of the fetus it not born yet

[N1ghtw0lf]

My only real 'thought' on the matter is that i am against abortion...wether you want a child or not abortion aint the answer...if you don't want your child...give it up for adoption...don't ruin someone else's dream... but then fo course there's always that 9 month time that you have to endure for someone else...

[Mr. Killjoy]

Hmmmm, I'm not against abortion... yeah some of you will say "it's crual" and/or "you're a murderer!"
but if I woman doesn't want a baby (even though the responsability should be taken b4 going to action), if it's her choice to abort, if she doesn't feel ready for this child... then it's ok, at least it's my POV

oh, and I hear someone saying "and the baby's right then?"
well, a baby that isn't born doesn't feel pain, doesn't know what is death, and doesn't even know that he lives, so it's not big deal...
"Every human is born equal in rights [etc]" is the other thing someone may say here...
Babies aren't really born till they got 'ejected', so we can't apply this sentence here

Update:
IMO, aborted babies are the lucky ones... think about it

[takwu]

Abortion is killing. I totally agree with that.
As for justified killing... If I'm correct, in the case where a doctor cannot save 2 lives, he is supposed to choose the one with a better chance to survive.
So in the case of abortion, I would say it's only fair if the mother has a better chance to survive than the baby. On the other hand, if the baby has a better chance to survive in a critical situation, it's not right to sacrifice the baby to save the mother.
It is pretty straight forward to me.

Abortion for any other reason are non-sense.
If a baby will be disabled (physically or mentally) when born, and so you kill it, it is the same as killing anyone who is disabled at any other point in life.
If a baby can "ruin 2 people's life" for existing, so you kill it, it is the same as killing anyone who will "ruin someone else's life".

And one more note about ProtoMan's "plan". Doing anything to interfere another person's chance to survive, by definition makes you an obstacle of his/her survival. As a member of the species, I have an instinct to elminate such obstacles for a fellow human.

[Mr. Killjoy]

Ok, most of the ppl here are against it, but would you have the same opinion if you were a girl?

[DB7]

This is a very difficult question and in my opinion there is not just one answer.

It is wrong for abortion to be treated as a method of contaception but sadly many woman do this, with many of those pressureed into it by their lazy bugger Husbands or Boyfriends who can't be arsed to wear a condom.

Also I can't help but wonder where the fathers rights are in this, I have a friend whose Girlfriend had an abortion of their child, but he wanted the child and was quite willing to raise the baby on his own.

In my own mind I am against abortion except on medical grounds but think that women have the right to chose but also think that the dads should have some say in the matter.

Like I said there is no easy answer to this question.

[takwu]

Originally Posted by Killjoy

. . .but would you have the same opinion if you were a girl?

Yes.
I don't think it's right to kill someone to prevent any suffering I may get.
Unless it's death, in which case my instinct to survive might weight over the benefit of the society. I'm not the type that sacrifices myself to save others.

[Kid A]

If you don't want a child, there are several and quite efficient ways of preventing conception...

[DarkAurora]

I know it's the woman who has to carry the child and all but I believe a woman should have to get a legal waiver from the father before she can get an abortion simply because of the fact that DB7 stated.