Do you think suicide is right?

[Rebel_X]

Whoever commit suicide is coward and brave at the same time, he is coward, because he chose death as the end of his suffer, and he is brave because it takes alot of guts to kill yourself..

So imho Suicide is wrong, but if I had to die, my death must have a meaning and accomplishment..

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[Kazuya Mishima]

Originally Posted by galson

Nope, a suicide is a sign of a weakness and cowardice.

Originally Posted by Rebel_X

he is coward, because he chose death as the end of his suffer

I have been there. It's not a matter of not running away. I don't know why it's always seen like this by people who aren't in the same circumstances and instead are in a very comfortable place to make the choices and moral opinions than the guy who is really suffering. Have you been there to know what it's like or are you talking based on empirical and idealistic ideas?

Do you remember an experiment where they put a mouse in a bucket filled with water so they could see how much time it had left without drowning? They were throwing him little sticks of wood so he could hang into it for a little while until the stick would get really wet and sink.

That's how it feels in real life. It's not running away. It's more like feeling there are little breaks in all this mess but once that breath of air goes away you are in the same mess.

Eventually, the mouse gets tired and drowns. Is he a coward for not waiting until the next stick of wood? Is he weak because he didn't wait for it?

It's the same, it's a matter of getting tired and not having strength to continue. Even if we know it could be better in a little while but... is there really an end to all of this? The mouse knows there isn't. People tend to think there isn't. Another people outside of their situation may think there is and it may indeed be true but when you are in that hopeless state you really feel there is no way out. REALLY.

It's like being utterly realistic: C'mon, the mouse can hope some human hand will come and take it out, he can hope the human will accidentally kick the bucket and he will be released but... what are the odds? It doesn't seem possible. Should the mouse hang into it with a false hope of getting out? It's the same with humans. There COULD be a miracle, there could be something that saves you but... what are the odds? It really feels like there is no reasonable chance of change.


Preaching about suicide being wrong it's like talking about sports and how the player did bad in the game: You are not the one who is playing, you are the one who is sitting comfortably on the coach and making decisions from there as if you were actually playing but truth is you don't know what it is to play it for real.

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

Agreed, it's selfish, and can devastate the lifes of others.

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

but as i got older i realized that its a very selfish thing to do.

Of course it's selfish because there is collateral damage: all the people who loves you and the ones you could leave without money.


But I see even more selfish trying to decide what other people do with their lives while we are standing on some sort of higher moral ground without personally living and feeling what that guy feels.

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Last edited by Kazuya Mishima; August 25th, 2008 at 21:12..

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Suicide = murder = crime = sin

if you think your life is hard now, just wait till you end up in eternal damnation.

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[tiki]

Suicide sucks. I'm all for euthanasia though. I wrote a 15 page final paper in my AP english class in high school about it. I've been looking for it for like 10 minutes but I can't find it :P I wanna put it up so you all can readz it, it's like a novel but totally better.

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[Kazuya Mishima]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

Suicide = murder = crime = sin

You phail Schumi
Suicide it's not a crime in any country in the world unless coerced by someobody else.
Suicide it's not murder because to murder someone, death has to be inflicted on someone else besides yourself.
Check the legislations

All of them are considered sins by some religions though, I concede that.

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

if you think your life is hard now, just wait till you end up in eternal damnation.

Remember that there are lots of people in this world who don't follow a religion and that phrase won't work with them... at all.

It doesn't even work for the religious people on the border of suicide, else there would not be any suicide of religious people...you have to wonder why...

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Kazuya that's a horrible example. Your life is not being threatend...that mouse's life was.

Regardless of what you may or may not believe that's the truth.

I don't care what the law says, it's wrong on many counts...

suicide = taking a life....taking a life = murder, yes it's your own life, but it's basically murder in the 1st degree of yourself...

By the way this is not some contest to find the best reasons why a person should not commit suicide...

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[Kazuya Mishima]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

Kazuya that's a horrible example. Your life is not being threatend...that mouse's life was.

That's the point. When you are there you REALLY feel your life its threatend, you feel like that mouse. I have been there, I know how it feels

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

suicide = taking a life....taking a life = murder, yes it's your own life, but it's basically murder in the 1st degree of yourself...

Do you know why it's not considered a crime? Well, to repair the damage done when a crime is commited you must punish someone but in a suicide... who do you punish? He's already dead

And it was not my intention to antagonize you. We all have our views and nobody is gonna change what we believe in. I respect that.

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Your life is not being threatened by the situation that kills you, you create that yourself.

The example is wrong.

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[rivetheadzombie]

i think people have the right to suicide in certain situations, however, i've seen too many people do it for stupid reasons, or in my cousin's case, because he was drunk.

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

The drunken state blurrs and just about removes all reason and rational thought depending on the level of the state..one reason why I am so against getting drunk.

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[rivetheadzombie]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

The drunken state blurrs and just about removes reason and rational thought depending on the level of the state..one reason why I am so against getting drunk.

i don't think there is anything wrong with getting drunk every once in awhile but getting drunk alone is just a stupid idea.

[Exodus]

As long as the alternative isn't killing others, then no, it's not right.

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[Kazuya Mishima]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

Your life is not being threatened by the situation that kills you, you create that yourself.

The example is wrong.

You feel like the mouse regardless of the circumstances that created the situation. That's what I said and that's how it feels, I have been there, I know it.

Just for arguments sake: The mouse didn't choose to be there, he didn't create the situation. The guy didn't choose to be there either, he didn't create the sittuation.

When the mouse is tired he commits suicide as it is letting himself go instead of fighting till the end. When the guy is tired he commits suicide and in a way is letting himself go instead of fighting till the end.

When you are not in that situation you can see it clearly. When you are in it you see it has having no end.

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[Soul Eater]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

Your life is not being threatened by the situation that kills you, you create that yourself.

The example is wrong.

How do you create it yourself? I wanted to commit suicide. For years even. Tell me did I pick who would cause me grief in my life? Was it me that created a situation in which I felt there was no one to turn to? What did I do? EXIST?

It's my mistake for existing alongside the trash of society? What should I do to fix the situation? Kill them? You think you can just talk to people and they'll understand? You can't. "Maybe you didn't try hard enough." It's takes a lot to drive someone to suicide. You have no idea what it feels like. No one you can turn to. No one you can trust. The despair, the pain, the suffering, you have no idea what it fells like to be powerless. Unable to change what causes your suffering. You can't just remove yourself from the equation.

I hated those people. I moved miles away. And what did I find? The same kind of people. People who drive you to suicide are EVERYWHERE.

Just so you know here's why I was driven to thinking of suicide: I pretty much got bull**** coming my way for being myself. That's what I did "wrong". I didn't shape myself into what everyone else wanted.

Gooooo human race.

__________________
Strike you down and send you straight to Hell.

[Kazuya Mishima]

Schumi, I'm afraid you haven't been there so you can't understand it.

I'm not defending it nor am against it. I'm just trying to explain it so people can understand it better but arguing with you and reading Soul Eater's post made me realize something: Nobody can understand it unless they have been there.

Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking when somebody sits comfortably in his couch and from there try to give an opinion on somebody else's life.

Like I said before:
Preaching about suicide being wrong it's like talking about sports and how the player did bad in the game: You are not the one who is playing, you are the one who is sitting comfortably on the coach and making decisions from there as if you were actually playing but truth is you don't know what it is to play it for real.

__________________


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[Rebel_X]

Originally Posted by Kazuya Mishima

Do you remember an experiment where they put a mouse in a bucket filled with water so they could see how much time it had left without drowning? They were throwing him little sticks of wood so he could hang into it for a little while until the stick would get really wet and sink.

That's how it feels in real life. It's not running away. It's more like feeling there are little breaks in all this mess but once that breath of air goes away you are in the same mess.

Eventually, the mouse gets tired and drowns. Is he a coward for not waiting until the next stick of wood? Is he weak because he didn't wait for it?

It's the same, it's a matter of getting tired and not having strength to continue. Even if we know it could be better in a little while but... is there really an end to all of this? The mouse knows there isn't. People tend to think there isn't. Another people outside of their situation may think there is and it may indeed be true but when you are in that hopeless state you really feel there is no way out. REALLY.

It's like being utterly realistic: C'mon, the mouse can hope some human hand will come and take it out, he can hope the human will accidentally kick the bucket and he will be released but... what are the odds? It doesn't seem possible. Should the mouse hang into it with a false hope of getting out? It's the same with humans. There COULD be a miracle, there could be something that saves you but... what are the odds? It really feels like there is no reasonable chance of change.

Of course it's selfish because there is collateral damage: all the people who loves you and the ones you could leave without money.

thats nice analogy, but even the mouse didn't choose to die, and believe me, if the mouse is not tired, he will keep trying, the thing is life is so much precious to waste it.. sure I felt like I wanna die really bad, "Economical, Family, Love, Work, School and every kind of problems at the same time" but instead of committing suicide, I chose to live, and no matter what happen, let all the problems come at once, then if I got killed by somebody else or by a heartattack then it's okay, because I know from the bottom of my heart that I tried my best..

I can understand your point, it's really different when you live the problems and tragedy, but that's why there is other people you trust to help you.. Like the coach example you mentioned, sure he doesn't know how to play or even run, but he can make valuable advices that can really help the player.. it's like the people who observe but not live the situation can have logical exits strategies.. have you ever tried playing a puzzle game and you were stuck for an hour, then your brother comes within 2 minutes watching you he solve it.. (It's not like he is more clever than you, because it might happen to him if you switched the roles.)

well, if you want to make your example perfect, instead of the mouse. you should have mentioned the scorpion..

Scorpion will sting himself with his tale and commit suicied if he was sorrounded with fire (like a circle of fire and the scorpion in the middle)..
I don't know why this unique behavior from Scorpion..

Edit: I am with Schumi, Suicide is a crime, but since there is no one to blame or punish, it seems it's not.. well, it's like a murderer kills 10 people then kill himself, nobody to punish, he is GONE

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Last edited by Rebel_X; August 26th, 2008 at 02:26..

[EmuFan23]

Originally Posted by MiretanK

I understand your points but I found quite funny that both of you approve and disapprove the idea at same time...

Oh no...No no no, now you are twisting words here. I NEVER approved the idea. I said a person has right to decide over his/her life, but that does not include taking your own life, suicide IS murder. I would NEVER approve suicide, i have personal experience from it. Not me, someone else.

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

XD seems I have caused a bit of a missunderstanding...that's not what I meant.

I mean the choice to step off the bridge, or to take those pills, or to slit your wrists, or whatever the method chosen is still yours.

For the mouse it was different. It was placed in a life threatening situation by someone else. It not being able to hang on, and letting go and drowing is not suicide, it's 2nd degree murder by the scientists.

No if you commit suicide it's not life which places you in that situation that kills you, it's your own decision to step off that bridge or to take those pills, or whatever the chosen method. You were not in a life threatening situation before you made that choice.

And that is why this example is wrong, completely wrong.

Barring fatigue and other bodily needs and failings you can bet your britches that mouse would still be trying to hang on.

Let me also say this...which may or may not agree with what other christians think...if you decide to commit suicide...by say taking a step off a bridge, but then at the last second decide not to and turn around..and slip and fall, but manage to barely hang on to some sort of protrusion, but as time wears on with fatigue your grip gets inevitably weaker and you eventually fall to your death...whilst that most likely would be labeled as a suicide...I would see that as an accident eventhough your original intention had been suicide. It's not the wish to commit suicide which killed you, it's you being placed in a life threatening situation which you could not survive.

I hope it's clearer to people now, why I say that mouse example is so horribly wrong.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Sometimes it has its purposes. If you were being horribly tortured and undergoing genital mutilation that have been a torture practice of so many regimes, I would say yes. Suicide is definitely acceptable in those situations since they will utterly carve away at every last reminant of yourself until your mind, body and sexuality is destroyed.

In the Nazi concentration camps jews would often throw themselves against the electric fences to avoid torture and experimentation and avoid excruciatingly painful deaths.

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Last edited by PCXL-Fan; August 26th, 2008 at 00:46..

[Urine Sample]

The only time suicide is ok is if the need to kill yourself has been brought on by dementia or a psychotic problem that has been afflicted to you genetically. However if its depression being caused by circumstance such as relatives dying, or girlfreind dumping you then your just an attention-seeking loser! I hope anyone who wants to die does die because all they'll do is have kids and ruin lives with theyre bull****.

EDIT: Its also ok in those circumstances ^