Do you think suicide is right?

[Proto]

Youngsters with yongster problems thinking about suicide don't really count as good examples of justified suicide though. Most of the cases they are people who want some attention. And when the situation is so extreme that suicide is justified it becomes painfully obvious to everyone.

I think we are more referring to adults with real life problems, who just lost any interest in life, in that cases the life is more blurry, and all the discussion becomes more meaningful. Like being single, with the same work after 30 years and with no real friends or anyone to share anything. True, they could try something for a change, but they do not have the energy of a youngster to be able to try and be successful in that respect. I think those kind of situations (the one above is *just* and example, don't go and shot it down as if it were the whole basis of my theory), is where the discussion might me more meaningful.

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[PCXL-Fan]

They (like your firiend morgan) survived through the help of others. Without that help they might have taken their own lives.

They aren't overcoming their problems entirely on their own. They often need help. And if the help never comes then they don't overcome their problems.

So in situations where the differences between someone committing suicide and someone who gets over it is the outside help of others, then it is not outside the individuals capacity to fully help themselves. If they did not entirely overcome their issues and suicidal ways on their own, then under your own rules wouldn't you label the survivors as wimps too?

At times they will try with all their might to be reach out to others only to be rejected or ignored.

No man is an island unto himself.
While north america was being colonized their were stories of individuals going out into the uncolonized western frontier and going absolutely crazy or committing suicide from total isolation.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

Yes, I like anime, Street Fighter, Japanese music and download video game music. Yes, I know... I've changed.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

exactly, But what im saying, is that those who do, don't give life chance for people too help them.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

exactly, But what im saying, is that those who do, don't give life chance for people too help them.

At times they will try to reach out to others only to be rejected or ignored. Their efforts are totally wasted because no one wants to spend the time or energy to help them.

The basic fundamental principal of friendship is one where both individuals mutually benefit. What about scenarios where an individual has nothing to give back and associating with them is even detrimental.

The nature of people is to reject and ignore those that cannot offer anything to them. Would you accept the friendship of a urine stenched crack addict on the street? Likely no. Perhaps he has become rejected by everyone, and everyone has the exact same reaction as you do. You want nothing to do with him and think he is pathetic.

Often times good upstanding strong willed people became totally addicted to drugs after an ignorant one use. It only takes one mistake before your life is spiraling out of control.

Take the maimed Vietnam vets who come back from the war. The shell shocked, impaired and maimed state they were in, sometimes noone wants anything to do with them. Their wives divorce them and they fell through the cracks living in isolation or on the streets panhandling money.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

Yes, I like anime, Street Fighter, Japanese music and download video game music. Yes, I know... I've changed.

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Last edited by PCXL-Fan; September 15th, 2008 at 05:09..

[Squall-Leonhart]

Its also peoples nature to kill, rob, and screw, but those aren't daily occurences either. the people who do reject a person when they are in need get no more compassion from me then do the people who commit suicide. Unless you would prefer i look at it as the rejecter being a murderer, and the rejectee being a victim. But even then you'd have to take into account that the rejecter probably isn't doing it conciously.... Taking bullying into consideration, i'd count that as murder by psychological assault.

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[PCXL-Fan]

squall if you could reread my previous post i added more.

So if you take into account there are situations where pretty much everyone rejects or ignores them then how can they be wimps.

Unique individuals like yourself aren't always common place.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

Yes, I like anime, Street Fighter, Japanese music and download video game music. Yes, I know... I've changed.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

mutual benefit isn't friendship :\, i've got friends who have way more, and way less then me.

People who are like that piss me off >.<, i don't care if they come from money, of if they come from 1 parent households. I just care that they are doing ok and are happy.

As for maimed viet vets, i only have one question. Did what they were doing make them sick. If the answer is no, then i kick them out on their sorry inhumane ass. Showing them the same grace they showed the people of Vietnam.

As for crack addicts, that depends on there past, and what they intend with their future. If they have plans to get clean and make something of themselves, then sure. If they have no plans at all and intend on continuing their drug habbit, most likely not. I have no time for people who don't intend on doing better for themselves.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

mutual benefit isn't friendship :\, i've got friends who have way more, and way less then me.

People who are like that piss me off >.<, i don't care if they come from money, of if they come from 1 parent households. I just care that they are doing ok and are happy.

Sure it is. And I'm not talking about how many possessions they have or how much money they have.

I'm talking about contributing anything of value to the friendship. Thats why people who feel absolutely no self worth and see little value in themselves have such hard times making friends. People see that low self worth and don't see the value in associating with them.

As for maimed viet vets, i only have one question. Did what they were doing make them sick. If the answer is no, then i kick them out on their sorry inhumane ass. Showing them the same grace they showed the people of Vietnam.

Despite the true stories you heard of villages of innocent vietnamese getting caught up and slaughtered in the crossfire, the majority of US soldiers had no part in that. People were conscripted during the war and didn't have a choice whether to enter or not. Draft dodgers were riddiculed and turned into pariahs back then. They also whole heatedly believed the rhetoric they heard about stopping communism and doing good.

The unconditioned mind often times isn't capable of dealing with the horrors of war. They weren't spartans raised from birth to do warfare. They were brothers, husbands, and sons force drafted into the army, given a few months training then shipped to vietnam to protect what they believed freedom and democracy.

In the battlefield it is kill or be killed. If you don't shoot first you could be killed, and second guessing or hesitating could get you killed.

Just to give an example:
An hour ago and 3 miles back you had just gotten through a firefight with a group of vietkong, which had wiped out a quarter of your platoon. Your still feeling shellshocked and snipers could be anywhere ready to ambush your platoon. You see movement out of the corner of your eyes in the jungle foliage. Is that a vietkong? You have to shoot first and you do so. Walking up to the corpses you see it is a 5 year old boy and his 11 year old sister still with the water bucket firstly in her grasp who were on their way to the watering hole to collect water for their village.

Things like that and the constant unending danger, the need to keep alert 24/7, seeing your friends and colleges blown away, those things take their toll on the mind and often unconditioned minds aren't capable of handling it.

As for crack addicts, that depends on there past, and what they intend with their future. If they have plans to get clean and make something of themselves, then sure. If they have no plans at all and intend on continuing their drug habbit, most likely not. I have no time for people who don't intend on doing better for themselves.

Those drugs **** with your mind. They fry your mind. Your no longer thinking rationally or coherently. They can even ruin and warp your desires, like with meth if you ever watch those tv shows they all see nothing wrong with themselves and they lose all desires except to get high again.

Nobody is immune to the power of those drugs. If you took enough you would spiral out of control, and have absolutely no ability to recuperate on your own.

I haven't ever taken any but I've read enough about them in my research of r|ita|in, that I understand these things. If jesus christ, buddha or mohammed, I don't care who it is took enough of these drugs they too would lose themselves and spiral out of control.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

Yes, I like anime, Street Fighter, Japanese music and download video game music. Yes, I know... I've changed.

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Last edited by PCXL-Fan; September 15th, 2008 at 06:30..

[Squall-Leonhart]

I don't know where you got your facts from, but the American's contributed to more unnecessary slaughter in Vietnam, then the cong did. Through the use of Napalm, and chemical's such as agent orange. Which is why alot of Viet vets do feel sick about their part in it.

Theres no winners in war, theres only the side with less dead.

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[MT]

Originally Posted by PCXL

Sure it is. And I'm not talking about how many possessions they have or how much money they have.

I'm talking about contributing anything of value to the friendship. Thats why people who feel absolutely no self worth and see little value in themselves have such hard times making friends. People see that low self worth and don't see the value in associating with them.

Yeah. Experience and motivation are priceless things. And linking to the actual thread's subject, motivation is a good act to help someone suffering of depression and stuff.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

I don't know where you got your facts from, but the American's contributed to more unnecessary slaughter in Vietnam, then the cong did. Through the use of Napalm, and chemical's such as agent orange. Which is why alot of Viet vets do feel sick about their part in it.

Theres no winners in war, theres only the side with less dead.

They did contribute to more civilian casualties than the vietkong, but the majority of soldiers didn't partake in the use of agent orange. The main delivery method wasn't by the infantry but by air.

(and don't try and act ignorant, you know by delivery i don't mean transportation, but the actually spraying of the chemicals)

Most of the news about the long term horrible effects of agent orange weren't publicized and didn't become know to the america public till recently.

Now if you could please respond to the entire post and not derail it by focusing on a single aspect of my post.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

Yes, I like anime, Street Fighter, Japanese music and download video game music. Yes, I know... I've changed.

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Last edited by PCXL-Fan; September 15th, 2008 at 07:33..

[Squall-Leonhart]

I don't feel like it right now. I'm having trouble focusing. >.>

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[gamefreak94]

Originally Posted by Kazuya Mishima

You said it yourself. Zero tolerance? Then you can't make a discussion if you don't hear other people posts. That's why you are writing in a disqualifying manner even before somebody else cna reply. There is no point in replying to you since you have zero tolerance. Why debate at all?

To discuss you need 2 people not one guy talking and the rest agreeing. You expect it to be the second. Proto said it better.

Just because I have zero tolerance doesn't mean I can't control it

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[Zappatista]

Morals aside, suicide will be the ultimate fashion in the USA, next year. 80 thousand jobs gone to the lord almighty, never to come back, just in Manhattan, yesterday. And it is just beggining.

[Squall-Leonhart]

oh yes, suicide is the only answer there.

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[Bamsmacked]

Suicide is for weak cowards.

Its only cool for a samurai to commit suicide. Unless your a big Japanese guy with a weird mustache with a long ass katana and bamboo armor you cannot commit suicide, kthx die!

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[dimentionalrift]

What's the point of killing yourself?
You live only once, and there is no evidence of anything after that, yet people still seem to prefer taking their lives when things go bad.
An ostrich does the same but atleast it sticks its head into the sand to fool everyone into mistaking it for a tree, instead of standing up for itself, it doesn't kill itself.
People that kill themselves are usually those who closed so many doors in their lives, that when the time came they ended up with nothing and no time to start over.
But its never too late!!!
The question is are you ready to forget everything, to push away everyone and plot a completely new life with the time you have left to live in thins world.
Faith in the after life won't get you far believe me.

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[Hanamichi]

I think it takes great courage to kill yourself. Putting aside nut cases, do you think the average person is able to?

For a person to commit suicide in a stable state of mind, it shows how far/hard life or fate has pushed him into a corner, to the point it is probably not worth living anymore, from that person's perspective.

[Squall-Leonhart]

i could kill myself, whenever i wanted, courage has nothing to do with it. i'd be a ***** do it though, since life is harder to live than death is easier to live with.

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[Linktothepast]

Originally Posted by dimentionalrift

What's the point of killing yourself?
You live only once, and there is no evidence of anything after that, yet people still seem to prefer taking their lives when things go bad.
An ostrich does the same but atleast it sticks its head into the sand to fool everyone into mistaking it for a tree, instead of standing up for itself, it doesn't kill itself.
People that kill themselves are usually those who closed so many doors in their lives, that when the time came they ended up with nothing and no time to start over.
But its never too late!!!
The question is are you ready to forget everything, to push away everyone and plot a completely new life with the time you have left to live in thins world.
Faith in the after life won't get you far believe me.

I don't think that those who commit suicide believe in afterlife necessarily, i would actually say that most of them don't.

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