Do you think suicide is right?

[Bamsmacked]

Originally Posted by Proto

Unless you have been in one of those situations yourself and come out (in which case you wouldn't be saying such things) I think the reply you can expect is in the lines of get off your high horse, and it's not the same to say that as an spectator than actually living in such a situation. Because I haven't been in such a situation I know I'm in no place to push my morals onto other persons and telling them what is right and wrong.



I dare you to suicide, oh so mighty and courageous one. Suicide is one of the most difficult decisions any being can take, and more than often require more courage than to continue living.

I simply said my opinion, and yes I don't know the whole yards about suicide. I was never a suicidal person, I've had problems in my life and who hasn't? Some where bad, some weren't I didn't even think for a second about ending my life because things were getting rough. Thats life, its tough and rough people need to learn to live with that. If you expect things in life to be handed to you on a silver platter, you better wake up. And no, I'm not on my high horse. Maybe you should get off your high horse, before scrutinizing what I said because it was my opinion and I will respect yours, and I expect you to respect mine

Whats the point in killing yourself? Whats that going to solve? Unless your being physically tortured in a worst imaginable way than I can understand it. And yes, suicide is for cowards. They're only thinking about themselves when they make that decision, nothing courageous about it.

Think about all the people who actually cared about YOU and how it would EFFECT them after you killed yourself. How is that in anyway COURAGEOUS?

It is estimated that each suicide in the United States leaves an average of six people intimately affected by the death, either as a spouse, parent, significant other, sibling, or child of the deceased person. These people are referred to as survivors.[33] Of course, this estimate does not represent the total number of people who may be affected by an individual suicide. For example, the suicide of a child may leave not only his/her immediate family to make sense of the act, but also his/her extended family, school and entire community.

As with any death, family and friends of a suicide victim feel grief associated with loss. However, suicide deaths leave behind a unique set of issues for the survivors. Suicide survivors are often overwhelmed with psychological trauma that vary depending on the factors comprising the event, including discovery of the body. The survivor's trauma can leave him/her feeling guilty, angry, remorseful, helpless, and confused. It can be especially difficult for survivors because many of their questions as to the victim's final decision are left unanswered, even if a suicide note is left behind (the "why" questions). Moreover, survivors often feel that they should have intervened in some way to prevent the suicide, even if the suicide comes as a surprise and there are no obvious warning signs. Along with this sense of regret and failure, there is sometimes relief if the survivor's relationship with the victim was difficult, strained, or otherwise complicated. Given this complex and conflicting set of emotions associated with a loved one's suicide, survivors usually find it difficult to discuss the death with others, even with those who have also faced the death of a loved one, but by some other means. These feelings cause survivors to feel isolated from their network of family and friends and often making them reluctant to form new relationships as well.[34]

Fortunately, "survivor support groups" can offer counseling and help bring many of the issues associated with suicide out into the open. They can also help survivors reach out to their own friends and family who may be feeling similarly and thus begin the healing process. In addition, counseling services and therapy can provide invaluable support to the bereaved. Some such groups can be found online, providing a forum for discussion amongst survivors of suicide.

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Last edited by Bamsmacked; September 4th, 2008 at 04:15.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[runawayprisoner]

I think suicide is right. And in which case, not committing suicide would be left, and... my first step of the day has always been with my left foot, then end the day with my right foot, when my soul and body are exhausted.

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[Fadingz]

Regardless, I think suicide is totally a personal opinion.
AS LONG AS one does not die in front of innocent people to leave a terrible and appalling mark in their mind.
If one really wants to die, then one should die alone quietly because dying means leaving the world alone.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by Nightmare

For those who keep on saying people who commit suicide are cowards, i really hope you can think twice and stop offending those who have committed suicide because some people that committed suicide did have their very personal problems, like diseases.

Suicidee's deserve no respect, and are cowards.
Suck it up, thats the public opinion.

and don't bring the disease bull**** up, that is a tiny fraction of all suicides.

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[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

Suicidee's deserve no respect, and are cowards.
Suck it up, thats the public opinion.

and don't bring the disease bull**** up, that is a tiny fraction of all suicides.

What do you mean by disease bull****? And what if it is a tiny fraction of all suicides? does that make it not suicide?

And what is this so-called public opinion? Public opinion = TRUTH? Huh?

[Squall-Leonhart]

No it makes it similar to Euphanasia.

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[Soul Eater]

Public opinion once believed the Earth was flat and that the Moon, the Sun, and all the other planets revolved around the Earth because those people were just that full of themselves.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

No that was the churches opinion pushed onto the people.

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[Soul Eater]

If the general population believes it, it becomes public belief.

Most of what you know, what you believe in isn't what someone told you?

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[Xblade]

Discretion should be used for beliefs.

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

No that was the churches opinion pushed onto the people.

I thought is was those gay guys that used to think up things and tell people it was so........philo somethings........I forget how to spell it :3.

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Last edited by Xblade; September 5th, 2008 at 03:16.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[Proto]

I simply said my opinion, and yes I don't know the whole yards about suicide. (...)Maybe you should get off your high horse, before scrutinizing what I said because it was my opinion and I will respect yours, and I expect you to respect mine

First off, I'd like to apologize. Reading my previous post, I came of quite rude unintentionally. Please accept my apologies.

Having that covered...

Thats life, its tough and rough people need to learn to live with that.

Well that's a tautology so it's not like it has much weight from a logical POV, however the irony of it just strikes me as quite funny

Whats the point in killing yourself?

When life and death become so meaningless that there is no point left in either, that question is really difficult to answer since you've lost any point of reference.

And again, as I mentioned earlier, I agree with the social implications of suicide. Suicide is one of the most selfish acts from a social POV, and if we were to think as a group suicide is a depicable act in which you take without paying back what you took, and as such I have not yet come to a conclusion on the social justification of suicide. However, what I was doing in my previous posts was defending it from an individual POV, and trying to put myself in the position of a person for whom his social role doesn't have any importance anymore, and as such his social contribution becomes equally tangential.

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[Bamsmacked]

Originally Posted by Proto

First off, I'd like to apologize. Reading my previous post, I came of quite rude unintentionally. Please accept my apologies.

Having that covered...



Well that's a tautology so it's not like it has much weight from a logical POV, however the irony of it just strikes me as quite funny



When life and death become so meaningless that there is no point left in either, that question is really difficult to answer since you've lost any point of reference.

And again, as I mentioned earlier, I agree with the social implications of suicide. Suicide is one of the most selfish acts from a social POV, and if we were to think as a group suicide is a depicable act in which you take without paying back what you took, and as such I have not yet come to a conclusion on the social justification of suicide. However, what I was doing in my previous posts was defending it from an individual POV, and trying to put myself in the position of a person for whom his social role doesn't have any importance anymore, and as such his social contribution becomes equally tangential.

And how does Life and Death become meaningless? How does a person get this way? It doesn't just get in their head, or they don't do it because its a "
trend".

It starts with a real problem. Could be a mental one, family problem, social problem, the person has experienced a traumatizing event, people commit suicide for so many reasons.

When a person commits suicide it just makes things a lot worse. Might get easier on the victim, but the people it effects make it a lot worse.

I'm a suicide survivor.. One of my friends commit suicide over the most insignificant reason ever. He was already sorta IN trouble and was on probation and stuff from the past, but him and his girlfriend got into a fight and he ended up damaging her car really bad that night and she called the police. He wasn't suppose to get into any significant trouble or he would get sent off to a detention center until he was 18. Well, 2 years of his life was just to much for him, and that was the reason why he killed himself that night. And before he done it he called a few people telling him to beat up his ex girlfriend, and to tell this OTHER girl that he has liked for years and she was pretty much obsessed with him to that he loves her.

So he traded 2 years of life, for his entire life, over a stupid matter. Which is not worth it at all. Plus all the people that were sad about his death couldn't even go to his funeral, his parents had so many people there that they didn't let in any friends because the funeral home was just so packed. There were like a whole parking lot full of people us outside. And that was just the beginning of it, his mother got really depressed over it she was a teacher at the school and they let her go on medical leave. She ended up on medication, and like almost a year later she died from being so depressed.

And than that girl that he always liked but never could date her for some distance reasons because she had moved away, she ended up killing herself over it! All I know is that she really loved him, he always would write her letters to my understanding telling her that, and when news about it got to her she did killed her self like 4 or 5 months later.

I bet that sounds like a made up story I wish it were to good to be true, but its not. The effects of suicide at its finest, nothing courageous at all.

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[Proto]

In that case I'm obligued to explain the next phase of my reasoning. In the first one I was just trying to defend the right to suicide everyone has, however as it would be with abortion or any right that should it be exercised it directly attempts against anyones life, it should not be taken lightly, under any circumstances. Specially from people who can't tell left from right.

It's a really delicate matter, and it is not the perfect solution, but specialized counseling centers for these people should be established so that the alternatives, should there be any, can be presented to the person who wants to suicide. Only when he has gone through this process and the person in question is truly convinced that he wants to suicide, when it is clear that it is a rational decision and not just an emotional one taken in the gist of the moment or because of an psychological imbalance., should the person who wants to suicide be given help so he can pass aways in the most painless way possible, both for him and for the people around him.

As such, suicide is not an easy thing, however the solution is not to ostracize it or to simply brandish its proponents as sickos, imbalanced or mere cowards. It should be given proper attention and following, not only to prevent it in misguided cases, but to actually to respect this right to die should the person really want to make use of it.

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[Bamsmacked]

Originally Posted by Proto

In that case I'm obligued to explain the next phase of my reasoning. In the first one I was just trying to defend the right to suicide everyone has, however as it would be with abortion or any right that should it be exercised it directly attempts against anyones life, it should not be taken lightly, under any circumstances. Specially from people who can't tell left from right.

It's a really delicate matter, and it is not the perfect solution, but specialized counseling centers for these people should be established so that the alternatives, should there be any, can be presented to the person who wants to suicide. Only when he has gone through this process and the person in question is truly convinced that he wants to suicide, when it is clear that it is a rational decision and not just an emotional one taken in the gist of the moment or because of an psychological imbalance., should the person who wants to suicide be given help so he can pass aways in the most painless way possible, both for him and for the people around him.

As such, suicide is not an easy thing, however the solution is not to ostracize it or to simply brandish its proponents as sickos, imbalanced or mere cowards. It should be given proper attention and following, not only to prevent it in misguided cases, but to actually to respect this right to die should the person really want to make use of it.

Suicide isn't a right and never will be. Abortion and suicide are totally different. Abortions have laws and regulations, you can't have an abortion in some areas and in the areas that do you can only have a abortion before certain stages of the fetus. Once the fetus has developed a functional brain, and heart than it is considered LIFE and therefore can not be terminated. Suicide is flat out illegal, and people that attempt suicide are punished for it.

Suicide is basically murder, because that person is taking their own LIFE. People that get caught from acts of suicide are sometimes even charged with attempted murder. Only difference is is they are usually sent to a hospital instead of a prison.

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Last edited by Bamsmacked; September 6th, 2008 at 03:03..

[Proto]

(...)Abortions have laws and regulations, you can't have an abortion in some areas and in the areas that do you can only have a abortion before certain stages of the fetus. Once the fetus has developed a functional brain, and heart than it is considered LIFE and therefore can not be terminated. Suicide is flat out illegal, and people that attempt suicide are punished for it.(...)People that get caught from acts of suicide are sometimes even charged with attempted murder.

As I said, laws are nothing but the institutionalization of a proposed (emphasis on proposed) moral system. As such, laws should not be used as a moral guide, it's the other way around!

I'd be glad to discuss on how abortion or suicide are similar or different on an ethical or phylosophical level though. As a start, I'd like to mention that the very first justification in favor of abortion is the right to decide about your own life and your own body, instead of having other people decide for you.

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[Kazuya Mishima]

Originally Posted by Bamsmacked

Suicide is flat out illegal, and people that attempt suicide are punished for it.

Where in the law is illegal? Care to point out that particular law? It's not illegal except for 2 or 3 countries in the whole world.
Those are the 3 countries that consider ATTEMPTED suicide illegal. Not the suicide in itself so saying suicide it's illegal it's flatout BS.

Originally Posted by Bamsmacked

Suicide is basically murder, because that person is taking their own LIFE.

Are you taking about real laws? Because murder by definition of law is death inflicted on SOMEONE else.
Care to point out the text of a law that says otherwise?

Killing oneself it's Suicide, not other word. It's a term in itself. It comes from sui (oneself) and caedere (to kill).
By it's own definition it can't be used to refer to death upon someone else.

Originally Posted by Bamsmacked

I'm a suicide survivor.

And in what way that story makes you a suicide survivor. To be one you need to have had wishes of death and survive. You just happened to have a friend who commited suicide. That's an entirely other thing.
In fact, you label his beahvior as stupid while you never put yourself in that situation.

Suicide it's like love. You are an objective observer who can give a valid opinion about somebody needing to leave that meaningless relationship with his girlfriend while he, who is involved in it, can hear you but won't do as you say. It's meaning it's way different than the objective one you may have.
When somebody it's involved in anything he stops being objective.

It's the same, you have to be there.

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Last edited by Kazuya Mishima; September 6th, 2008 at 05:37..

[Bamsmacked]

Originally Posted by Kazuya Mishima

Where in the law is illegal? Care to point out that particular law? It's not illegal except for 2 or 3 countries in the whole world.
Those are the 3 countries that consider ATTEMPTED suicide illegal. Not the suicide in itself so saying suicide it's illegal it's flatout BS.


Are you taking about real laws? Because murder by definition of law is death inflicted on SOMEONE else.
Care to point out the text of a law that says otherwise?

Killing oneself it's Suicide, not other word. It's a term in itself. It comes from sui (oneself) and caedere (to kill).
By it's own definition it can't be used to refer to death upon someone else.


And in what way that story makes you a suicide survivor. To be one you need to have had wishes of death and survive. You just happened to have a friend who commited suicide. That's an entirely other thing.
In fact, you label his beahvior as stupid while you never put yourself in that situation.

Suicide it's like love. You are an objective observer who can give a valid opinion about somebody needing to leave that meaningless relationship with his girlfriend while he, who is involved in it, can hear you but won't do as you say. It's meaning it's way different than the objective one you may have.
When somebody it's involved in anything he stops being objective.

It's the same, you have to be there.

Well if you want to get technical, its illegal in 6 US states.

When you commit suicide your killing yourself, so its self murder. Suicide is sometimes considered a unlawful killing.

A suicide survivor is someone who has been effected when SOMEONE else commits suicide.

Originally Posted by Proto

As I said, laws are nothing but the institutionalization of a proposed (emphasis on proposed) moral system. As such, laws should not be used as a moral guide, it's the other way around!

I'd be glad to discuss on how abortion or suicide are similar or different on an ethical or phylosophical level though. As a start, I'd like to mention that the very first justification in favor of abortion is the right to decide about your own life and your own body, instead of having other people decide for you.

Maybe so but there is nothing morally right about suicide. Unless like I said earlier, someone is in excruciating physical pain and has no way to get help I can understand killing yourself than.

You can't compare abortion to suicide. Its a different ball park, and hell even a whole different game. Abortion is totally different, and when abortions take place the legal way its only when the fetus still hasn't been defined as "Life".

Suicide doesn't solve anything, it makes things worse. But suicides don't care because they're already dead I guess?

If you really do think that suicide is like a human right or something, than I honestly don't know what world your living in...

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Last edited by Bamsmacked; September 6th, 2008 at 10:14.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[permethium]

imo. Suicide is the coward's way out.

Unless you are totally down and out, with nothing left for you on this earth ( no home, no family, no food and absolutely no way forward for you... ) only then would suicide be remotely acceptable ( arguably ). But until that happens, suicide should be off the table entirely.
stand up to your problems and face them. You'll earn much self respect....

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[ready2rumbelX]

Originally Posted by permethium

imo. Suicide is the coward's way out.

Unless you are totally down and out, with nothing left for you on this earth ( no home, no family, no food and absolutely no way forward for you... ) only then would suicide be remotely acceptable ( arguably ). But until that happens, suicide should be off the table entirely.
stand up to your problems and face them. You'll earn much self respect....

I'm inclined to agree (somewhat) with permethium's outlook.

In my opinion, challenges are made to be met...not run away from. Granted, some are plain aweful (and i'd never want to be in someone's position who have to live through such difficulties) but it makes sense that, perhaps, we are on this Earth to deal with internal challenges (as people or entities or souls...however you wish to views this).

As a result, if you commit suicide there's a good chance you'll come right back and start again. Some opt that you suffer an even worse life. I don't believe that, though.

For any of you who have contemplated (or even tried suicide) it's not so easy to do as many think. I've had a close encounter with it...I couldn't do it, but I remember how I felt....and I can never do it now. It's a bit a silly to have thrown all the effort that has been accomplished away so easily....and sometimes, problems don't seem that big once you've dealt with them.

....I definitely don't condone suicide as a practice, but I definitely won't judge or condemn anyone who has, or is attempting to. Life is complex and quite difficult...I can empathize/sympathize with those who try...but i'd recommend them not to.

r2rX

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[permethium]

Also , you do get ppl that struggle with depression in the greatest degree. But my view on that is, if that's a problem for you, it would be more practical to seek medical help and tackle it head on. comes back to my point of standing up to face whatever problems you have.

In my opinion, challenges are made to be met...

Agreed. By overcoming your challenges, you also discover yourself and your ability to cope with problems. you get to know your strengths

For any of you who have contemplated (or even tried suicide) it's not so easy to do as many think. I've had a close encounter with it...I couldn't do it, but I remember how I felt....

I won't lie, I have thought about it once, but I killed the thought just as soon as it came up. It personally disgusted me to think that I would rather be a coward in the sense that I would rather tuck tail than show some backbone.

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