Do you think suicide is right?

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Dieing to protect someone else is not suicide.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI-4-EVA

Dieing to protect someone else is not suicide.

So by killing some of the ten men with guns you could theoretically be protecting some of your fellow countrymen (and women and children if they are corrupt) from being killed or brutalized by these enemy soldiers in the ongoing war.

Thats exactly what David Reimer did. By committing suicide it showed to the world how horrible the infant genderchanging experiments were. By doing what he did he really helped contribute to stopping others from becoming similar victims. All his other campaigning went for not. Only suicide was a powerful enough statement to compete against the clout and authoritative opinions of the doctors. I don't know if that was fully his intention to send a message, but if none of them sacrificed themselves the treatment would be alot more widespread and would have claimed alot more victims.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

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[chipsugar]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

i think some people that have severe depression have hormonal/chemical imbalances in their brain, and its not something that a better attitude can cure.

Some do have medical problems causing depression,But practicing a better attitude can alleviate it to a large extent.

well i'm sure some people have very easy lives.
but i mainly said that comment to try and show that people that live okay/good lives won't be able to understand the reasoning behind people with bad-lives committing suicide.

I understand that reasoning but I disagree. All people have to go through bad parts in their lives. People that are living good lives now will have had bad lives in the past.

Originally Posted by Kazuya Mishima

It's obvious that the current trend of positive thinking and trying to live for the community and your family and all the rest of good thoughts are not working. If they did then the suicide rate would be lower or even null. Their thoughts are useless.

?!? Surely if people didn't have those "useless" positive thoughts the suicide rate would skyrocket! A big problem is when some depressives are depressed due to habitually looking at the world through a negative filter. What needs to happen here is they need to build a more varied set of mental tools for switching between a wider set of "filters" instead of the automatic one they're used to using. I think this is partly what cognitive therapy does or tries to do.

[Spacy]

Holy cow, I just skimmed through this thread to find out why mud was banned, and I'd never expect him to be like this. I think there must have occured something really bad in his RL for imprinting such opinions into him.

Now OnTopic, I read the argument "If you want to kill yourself, join the army.", which is really stupid IMO, because in the process, you kill other people as well, which surely does make you a murderer. OK, but wether killing in a war is a crime is a whole new flaming topic for itself, so it won't bring us any further.

Even though I don't like these wishy-washy final arguments, I think that rating suicide depends so much on religion, that you can use the answer for the right religion here: You can not say for sure, if suicide is okay or not, like you can not say which religion is the best for you, or if atheism is right.

However, what we can say for sure is, whenever you hear about someone wanting to commit suicide, you won't help him at all by telling him he is not allowed to do so or by accusing him of being brain-dead. IMO it is most efficient to actually find the problem in his/her life and try to correct it. I claim that no one with a perfect life and without any bad influences would ever think of suicide, so I conclude that a suicide-wish is the result of fatal problems without any hope of improvement. There are unsolvable problems for sure, but I think most people with a suicide-wish are caught in their own world and need help from the outisde to show them new paths out of their misery.

However, not all problems are correctable. On television, I saw a woman who was sick from head to toe (I don't remember what she had) and she was plagued by incredible pain without any chance of improvements. She asked a doctor to get her something with what she was able to kill herself unproblematically. IMO, the woman had all the rights in the world to commit suicide in her situation, and no one in the world could have helped her out of her disease. Isn't this like when your mum told you to squash the worm you accidentally cut in half together with an apple, in order to relieve him from his pain?


EDIT:
(Ouch, I just compared a sick woman to a worm cut into halves... I hope this doesn't get me banned. But believe me, in this exact situation, they are technically the same, you can't put two halves of a worm together.)

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Last edited by Spacy; September 2nd, 2008 at 22:36..

[Proto]

I claim that no one with a perfect life and without any bad influences would ever think of suicide

Ever seen The castle of purity

In any case, it'd seem your only associating uncorrectable problems with physical problems, and making it seem like psychological problems are just temporary and can be solved with proper treatment and good will. Which force me to remind everyone that even mentally and psychologically people also have their limit and breaking point, and forcing people to live beyond that is forcing people to live a living hell. Well, as you put it, it varies to person to person. I think can agree that suicide is amoral by itself, and it is moralized by the circumstances of the one who considers it.

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[Bamsmacked]

Of course its not right. I know every situation is different, but a common factor for most suicides is that people can't find alternate solutions to there problems, and they believe that "Death" is the only way out.

And yes, I think suicidal people are cowards. Life is tough you just got to make due with what you can, and there are always better solutions than suicide.

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[Proto]

Of course its not right. I know every situation is different, but a common factor for most suicides is that people can't find alternate solutions to there problems, and they believe that "Death" is the only way out.

Unless you have been in one of those situations yourself and come out (in which case you wouldn't be saying such things) I think the reply you can expect is in the lines of get off your high horse, and it's not the same to say that as an spectator than actually living in such a situation. Because I haven't been in such a situation I know I'm in no place to push my morals onto other persons and telling them what is right and wrong.

And yes, I think suicidal people are cowards.

I dare you to suicide, oh so mighty and courageous one. Suicide is one of the most difficult decisions any being can take, and more than often require more courage than to continue living.

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Last edited by Proto; September 3rd, 2008 at 03:30..

[Squall-Leonhart]

Bull****, There is no courage in suicide. Its a quick and easy way out, and requires nothing but stupidity.

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[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

Bull****, There is no courage in suicide. Its a quick and easy way out, and requires nothing but stupidity.

Not always.

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Originally Posted by Exodus

Yes, I like anime, Street Fighter, Japanese music and download video game music. Yes, I know... I've changed.

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[Proto]

Bull****, There is no courage in suicide. Its a quick and easy way out, and requires nothing but stupidity.

Suicide not only requires having to overcome one's natural intincts, but also going against social stigma, self guilt and other kind of psychological and social kind of pressure. If you could kindly demonstrate me how to overcome all of this just by a temporal insufficiency of mental capabilities (stupidity as you call it) or other than calling my arguments bull****, I would greatly appreciate it.

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[snickothemule]

It depends on the method of suicide. Women and men have different habits of accomplishing this feat. Some of them are quite direct in their approach, such as a man will gas himself using car exhaust and wait for the inevitable. A woman however will typically poison herself with a vicious ****tail of wine and tablets. It is not always jumping off a roof or slitting ones wrists.

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[Urine Sample]

Suicide is one of the hardest things to do ever... if you dont want to die. But when you want to kill yourself im pretty sure it would become easier. Like how killing someone is easier when theyre trying to kill you.

[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by Proto

Suicide not only requires having to overcome one's natural intincts, but also going against social stigma, self guilt and other kind of psychological and social kind of pressure. If you could kindly demonstrate me how to overcome all of this just by a temporal insufficiency of mental capabilities (stupidity as you call it) or other than calling my arguments bull****, I would greatly appreciate it.

Its stupid. Pure and simple, no explanation needed.

However, Why don't you give us proof how it isn't stupid, selfish, and cowardly. Because as far as im concerned its the bastards that are left behind that are the brave ones.

OOOOOOOOOOOOH Woe is me, the world hates me, i'll cut my ****ing wrists,

I believe an episode of foamy explained exactly how gutless these suicidal pissants are. Try and explain it all you want. There are people in these forums who have worse day to day problems, and haven't done anything STUPID. who continue to face each day out as they come and pass.

Suicide is the chickens choice. I'm glad they are dead, natural selection at its finest.

Originally Posted by snickothemule

It depends on the method of suicide. Women and men have different habits of accomplishing this feat. Some of them are quite direct in their approach, such as a man will gas himself using car exhaust and wait for the inevitable. A woman however will typically poison herself with a vicious ****tail of wine and tablets. It is not always jumping off a roof or slitting ones wrists.

And what about the ones who kill their fricking kids in the process. w,. I lost 4 friends in that manner, Victims of broken families and divorce. If you want to be the ***** and kill yourself, leave your friggin kids alone, they deserve a chance at life away from your crazy emo bull****.

Originally Posted by Spacy

Holy cow, I just skimmed through this thread to find out why mud was banned, and I'd never expect him to be like this. I think there must have occured something really bad in his RL for imprinting such opinions into him.

Now OnTopic, I read the argument "If you want to kill yourself, join the army.", which is really stupid IMO, because in the process, you kill other people as well, which surely does make you a murderer. OK, but wether killing in a war is a crime is a whole new flaming topic for itself, so it won't bring us any further.

Even though I don't like these wishy-washy final arguments, I think that rating suicide depends so much on religion, that you can use the answer for the right religion here: You can not say for sure, if suicide is okay or not, like you can not say which religion is the best for you, or if atheism is right.

However, what we can say for sure is, whenever you hear about someone wanting to commit suicide, you won't help him at all by telling him he is not allowed to do so or by accusing him of being brain-dead. IMO it is most efficient to actually find the problem in his/her life and try to correct it. I claim that no one with a perfect life and without any bad influences would ever think of suicide, so I conclude that a suicide-wish is the result of fatal problems without any hope of improvement. There are unsolvable problems for sure, but I think most people with a suicide-wish are caught in their own world and need help from the outisde to show them new paths out of their misery.

However, not all problems are correctable. On television, I saw a woman who was sick from head to toe (I don't remember what she had) and she was plagued by incredible pain without any chance of improvements. She asked a doctor to get her something with what she was able to kill herself unproblematically. IMO, the woman had all the rights in the world to commit suicide in her situation, and no one in the world could have helped her out of her disease. Isn't this like when your mum told you to squash the worm you accidentally cut in half together with an apple, in order to relieve him from his pain?


EDIT:
(Ouch, I just compared a sick woman to a worm cut into halves... I hope this doesn't get me banned. But believe me, in this exact situation, they are technically the same, you can't put two halves of a worm together.)

Terminally ill patients asking for asssisted suicide is euthanasia, I've no problem with that letting a person live in physical crippling pain is cruel and inhumane, we'd put a horse down in that instant, and so a human should be allowed that same compassion.


Suicide because of mental illness is barely a fraction of the actual suicides in the world. Most of them are practically normal healthy people who simply hit hard times in life, and get it into their stupid head that the people around them would be better off without them.

Oh, its one thing to sacrifice yourself to save others (ie throwing yourself on a bomb would be a noble act). But strapping the bomb to yourself and taking yourself and a class of innocent bystanders with you becuse the school jock and his friends locked you in a closet.

Oh, man up and stop being pussies. Thousands of bullied individuals have moved through life with no long term mental problems, though if you look back you take a good look at the changed parenting styles over the years..... these days most kids are raised by Foxnews and Hannah montana. Of course they are gunna become desensitzied... listening to miley cyrus would make me want to kill myself and a few hundred citizens as well.

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Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; September 3rd, 2008 at 13:03.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[Proto]

However, Why don't you give us proof how it isn't stupid, selfish, and cowardly. Because as far as im concerned its the bastards that are left behind that are the brave ones.

Not really, the Burden of proof is on you, since you were the one who proposed the original idea.

OOOOOOOOOOOOH Woe is me, the world hates me, i'll cut my ****ing wrists,

Appeal to ridicule, logical fallacy.

I believe an episode of foamy explained exactly how gutless these suicidal pissants are.

Appeal to false authority. You'd first have to stablish foamy as a valid authority in the analysis of the human mind.

Suicide is the chickens choice. I'm glad they are dead, natural selection at its finest.

The same, you haven't demonstrated that suicide is the chicken choice

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Last edited by Proto; September 3rd, 2008 at 15:51..

[Nightmare]

For those who keep on saying people who commit suicide are cowards, i really hope you can think twice and stop offending those who have committed suicide because some people that committed suicide did have their very personal problems, like diseases.

One extreme situation is,can you imagine that you have lost your whole family during an accident, while you are the only one who still alive but losing your hands and legs and have to lie on bed for your whole life? How many of you are so freaking brave to choose to live? Don't tell me you will if you are not in this situation. And for other diseases, some really can make people losing courage to live. You will never understand those who suffering until you are one of them. My point is, not EVERYONE who choose to commit suicide is coward, saying everyone who suicide is coward just showing that you are too immature.

And suicide is easy? Don't make me laugh.

[ozzgx4]

correct, suicide is not easy to commit, it is a very hard decision to make

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Originally Posted by snickothemule

Q:What is the meaning of life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

The problem with suicide is that suicide breeds suicide....

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[V1ncent]

Originally Posted by Nightmare

For those who keep on saying people who commit suicide are cowards, i really hope you can think twice and stop offending those who have committed suicide because some people that committed suicide did have their very personal problems, like diseases.

One extreme situation is,can you imagine that you have lost your whole family during an accident, while you are the only one who still alive but losing your hands and legs and have to lie on bed for your whole life? How many of you are so freaking brave to choose to live? Don't tell me you will if you are not in this situation. And for other diseases, some really can make people losing courage to live. You will never understand those who suffering until you are one of them. My point is, not EVERYONE who choose to commit suicide is coward, saying everyone who suicide is coward just showing that you are too immature.

And suicide is easy? Don't make me laugh.

Read the whole thing, its been said that there are exceptions.

And suicide is easy? Don't make me laugh.

If you are depressed, I mean really depressed (maybe because of your girlfriend and stuff), suicide is the first thought in mind.

Its not difficult to try to take your life. It becomes difficult when you find out that you are succeeding.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by V1ncent

Read the whole thing, its been said that there are exceptions.


If you are depressed, I mean really depressed (maybe because of your girlfriend and stuff), suicide is the first thought in mind.

Its not difficult to try to take your life. It becomes difficult when you find out that you are succeeding.

Read my post carefully. I pointed to those who keeps saying people who commit suicide is coward. Not those who agreed that there are exceptions. Alright?

Its not difficult to try to take your life? How sure are you? If it is not difficult, i have been gone from this world long time ago. The choice is very hard to make when you have to think about your parent, friends, etc.

[V1ncent]

Read my post carefully. I pointed to those who keeps saying people who commit suicide is coward. Not those who agreed that there are exceptions. Alright?

Actually, the user you're trying to point has accepted that there are exceptions.

Its not difficult to try to take your life? How sure are you?

I am sure.

The choice is very hard to make when you have to think about your parent, friends, etc.

Thats what I meant though.