Fix Buggy Noise In Vista!!!! - Page 4

**drkIIRaziel** · November 18th, 2008

K, the speed limit code was added to the aica plugin, will be included in next rls

Borisz · November 18th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkIIRaziel

Because they care about crappy cards, and vista ...

Or they just had decent sound code to begin with. I'm talking about 10+ year old apps that predate not just Vista, but xp and 2k as well - everything from emulators to media players to friggin Morrhuhn Jagd 2, none of them have the slightest sound related problems under Vista. Only NullDC.

**drkIIRaziel** · November 18th, 2008

Or they just didn't had a need to do real time streaming ? nullDC's streaming code works well with big buffers (2048+) even under vista, i can't see what problem you have with it ;p

Squall-Leonhart · November 19th, 2008

Vista's removal of the HAL was not just a security precaution, but a DRM precaution as well.

Regardless, it fails as Vista SW audio is 30% slower then XP's heh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsyMan

Eh..? I want a screenshot of both beta 1.6 and 1.0.3 on a the exact place where the sound is breaks with 1.0.3. If you don't mind that is. Or is it global?

Its probably one of those Integrated SPU's with pathetic HWA, like RTAC97

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Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; November 19th, 2008 at 04:12.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

PsyMan · November 19th, 2008

Nah, most likely a bug on the plugin. Although the random stops on MvC2 could be related to something else.

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Squall-Leonhart · November 19th, 2008

IO Timing?

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PsyMan · November 19th, 2008

Dunno... Razi did something to the code that resulted in periodical pauses on some 2D fighters after beta 1. Could be about everything.

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Squall-Leonhart · November 19th, 2008

Maybe Idle synching or something like that, I've noticed 2d fighters on the PSX render at half speed, say 30FPS while the VI is 60. might be similar on DC.

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PsyMan · November 19th, 2008

Ehh, not really... Not on that case at least. I could try and track what change caused the problem but there is a very tiny issue... Those "problematic" games were broken for about 100 revisions (they just wouldn't get ingame) and when they were fixed again they already had the issue... so yeah, it's time consuming to track wtf happened.

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Borisz · November 19th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkIIRaziel

Or they just didn't had a need to do real time streaming ? nullDC's streaming code works well with big buffers (2048+) even under vista, i can't see what problem you have with it ;p

This one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkIIRaziel

The problem with sound sync and big buffers is only noticeable with a fast pc that can get 2x+ fullspeed when non limited.On older hardware its not that bad

**drkIIRaziel** · November 20th, 2008

Thats not a problem on the sound code.ndc was never meant to be used with big buffers because sound gets laggy.The problem is that you -have- to use large buffers on vista, and while streaming works perfectly fine with em the sync gets bursty leading to a perceived 'choppiness'. That is happens by design (yes, its not a bug) as it allows to free up cpu time (take a look at the task manager, ndc only uses the amount of cpu needed instead of wasting a full core for busy waits like other emus do).The fact that i dislike vista and don't plan to switch os anytime soon makes the problem a bit bigger, as i can't test the behavior of any change i do

.

nullDC is tested under windows xp x64,c2d, gf8600 GTS (ati HD 4850 now, since i upgraded, but most of the code was writen with the 8600), and an audigy soundcard.I just assume that rest OS/PCs will get similar results to my platform, as i can't afford to buy 20 test systems and dedicate time testing at em.

Squall-Leonhart · November 20th, 2008

is sound plugin based? could always russel up a openal plugin, or even better since both creative, and realtek have access to DSHW via OAL (Realtek 3D Soundback and Creative Alchemy)

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Seffnot · December 8th, 2008

umm sorry for the noob interjection here but the first post says to alter the CFG file, but mine looks nothing like the one displayed in the post. mine looks like the following:
";; nullDC cfg file ;;
[nullDC_plugins]
Current_PVR=nullPvr_Win32.dll
Current_GDR=nullGDR_Win32.dll
Current_AICA=nullAica_Win32.dll
Current_ExtDevice=nullExtDev_Win32.dll
Current_maple0_5=nullDCMapleDevices_Win32.dll:0
Current_maple1_5=NULL
Current_maple2_5=NULL
Current_maple3_5=NULL
Current_maple0_0=nullDCMapleDevices_Win32.dll:2
Current_maple0_1=nullDCMapleDevices_Win32.dll:2
Current_maple0_2=NULL
Current_maple0_3=NULL
Current_maple0_4=NULL
Current_maple1_0=NULL
Current_maple1_1=NULL
Current_maple1_2=NULL
Current_maple1_3=NULL
Current_maple1_4=NULL
Current_maple2_0=NULL
Current_maple2_1=NULL
Current_maple2_2=NULL
Current_maple2_3=NULL
Current_maple2_4=NULL
Current_maple3_0=NULL
Current_maple3_1=NULL
Current_maple3_2=NULL
Current_maple3_3=NULL
Current_maple3_4=NULL"

Masticate · December 13th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkIIRaziel

Thats not a problem on the sound code.ndc was never meant to be used with big buffers because sound gets laggy.The problem is that you -have- to use large buffers on vista, and while streaming works perfectly fine with em the sync gets bursty leading to a perceived 'choppiness'. That is happens by design (yes, its not a bug) as it allows to free up cpu time (take a look at the task manager, ndc only uses the amount of cpu needed instead of wasting a full core for busy waits like other emus do).The fact that i dislike vista and don't plan to switch os anytime soon makes the problem a bit bigger, as i can't test the behavior of any change i do

.

nullDC is tested under windows xp x64,c2d, gf8600 GTS (ati HD 4850 now, since i upgraded, but most of the code was writen with the 8600), and an audigy soundcard.I just assume that rest OS/PCs will get similar results to my platform, as i can't afford to buy 20 test systems and dedicate time testing at em.

This issue also occurs on linux under wine, so it's not just vista users that are left out.

Sewje · December 21st, 2008

I wasn't convinced increasing the buffers beyond 2048 would fix the crackling effects in Vista, while it worked to a certain extent I found it increased sound lag for a game also, so it wasn't a proper fix. I decided to test some theories of sync problems myself.

I made some very interesting finds.
First of all I noticed with vsync the refresh of my monitor wasn't dead on 60 fps, it was 59.91 fps with vsync on, so this lead me to think if the sound was a little offsync with the vsync this would cause the crackling.
So instead of increasing the sound buffer setting from 2048 i reduced it to the percentage to match my vsync. from 2048 to 2044

Guess what! it fixed my ingame crackling!
I did some more tunning and found going over 2044 produced the long few seconds of crackling ingame, the crackling I got from 2048 buffer!
Reducing the number lower than 2044 also produced more crackling.
Although all crackling wasn't completly eliminated I found this worked best for me, there was still crackling but it was very little. But I can only guess this happens because you can't match the vsync perfectly.

Hope it helps some ppl.

Squall-Leonhart · December 21st, 2008

true NTSC is 59.91fps.

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PsyMan · December 22nd, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

true NTSC is 59.91fps.

and that's why there is "crackling" when the user chooses to use vsync at 60Hz... It's not a "Vista specific issue" or something (also happens on XP etc.) and a better way to "fix" it is to use a higher screen refresh rate (70Hz or something) or disable vsync completely.
The speed limiting feature on more recent internal betas take care of this issue... I think

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Squall-Leonhart · December 22nd, 2008

isn't there a way to sync to audio?

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PsyMan · December 22nd, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

isn't there a way to sync to audio?

That's what nDC does. It's just the vertical sync on top of the audio sync that creates buffer underruns.

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Greenhawk84 · January 25th, 2009

Ok so Vista works great for me and I dont understand what the deal is with people. Just download the F.E.A.R. 2 demo and it ran with flying colors on max settings. Anyway, NullDC is a great emulator but unfortunately for me I get choppy sound when in full screen, yet amazing graphics and frame rate. Oddly in windowed mode I do not get sound issues but the graphics are slower. Mortal Kombat Gold is the main game I play. The sound is actually great for a while until I get late into a match. Ive tried Soul Calibur and Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and those games seemed ok. Havnt played them nearly as much as MKG though to be sure.

I have a Dell XPS 420 with a Nvidia 8800GT 512MB, Intel Q6600 @ 2.40ghz, and Sigmatel on-board audio. I use NullDC nommu 1.0.3 with Windows Vista SP1. Plugins I use nullPVR Aug20/08 and nullAICA Aug20/08. AICA buffer set at 2048. Sync audio on.

As mentioned the graphics and frames in full screen are superb on my rig just not the sound.

December 21st, 2008	#75 (permalink)
Sewje Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 2	Vista Crackling I wasn't convinced increasing the buffers beyond 2048 would fix the crackling effects in Vista, while it worked to a certain extent I found it increased sound lag for a game also, so it wasn't a proper fix. I decided to test some theories of sync problems myself. I made some very interesting finds. First of all I noticed with vsync the refresh of my monitor wasn't dead on 60 fps, it was 59.91 fps with vsync on, so this lead me to think if the sound was a little offsync with the vsync this would cause the crackling. So instead of increasing the sound buffer setting from 2048 i reduced it to the percentage to match my vsync. from 2048 to 2044 Guess what! it fixed my ingame crackling! I did some more tunning and found going over 2044 produced the long few seconds of crackling ingame, the crackling I got from 2048 buffer! Reducing the number lower than 2044 also produced more crackling. Although all crackling wasn't completly eliminated I found this worked best for me, there was still crackling but it was very little. But I can only guess this happens because you can't match the vsync perfectly. Hope it helps some ppl.

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November 18th, 2008	#61 (permalink)
drkIIRaziel Emu author Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens,Greece Posts: 580	K, the speed limit code was added to the aica plugin, will be included in next rls

November 18th, 2008	#63 (permalink)
drkIIRaziel Emu author Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens,Greece Posts: 580	Or they just didn't had a need to do real time streaming ? nullDC's streaming code works well with big buffers (2048+) even under vista, i can't see what problem you have with it ;p

November 19th, 2008	#65 (permalink)
PsyMan Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: In a weird room :\ Posts: 994	Nah, most likely a bug on the plugin. Although the random stops on MvC2 could be related to something else. __________________ I'm not insane. YOU are insane... You are all insane! Click Here to Visit my Blog Page

November 19th, 2008	#66 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	IO Timing? __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

November 19th, 2008	#67 (permalink)
PsyMan Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: In a weird room :\ Posts: 994	Dunno... Razi did something to the code that resulted in periodical pauses on some 2D fighters after beta 1. Could be about everything. __________________ I'm not insane. YOU are insane... You are all insane! Click Here to Visit my Blog Page

November 19th, 2008	#68 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	Maybe Idle synching or something like that, I've noticed 2d fighters on the PSX render at half speed, say 30FPS while the VI is 60. might be similar on DC. __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

November 19th, 2008	#69 (permalink)
PsyMan Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: In a weird room :\ Posts: 994	Ehh, not really... Not on that case at least. I could try and track what change caused the problem but there is a very tiny issue... Those "problematic" games were broken for about 100 revisions (they just wouldn't get ingame) and when they were fixed again they already had the issue... so yeah, it's time consuming to track wtf happened. __________________ I'm not insane. YOU are insane... You are all insane! Click Here to Visit my Blog Page

November 20th, 2008	#71 (permalink)
drkIIRaziel Emu author Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens,Greece Posts: 580	Thats not a problem on the sound code.ndc was never meant to be used with big buffers because sound gets laggy.The problem is that you -have- to use large buffers on vista, and while streaming works perfectly fine with em the sync gets bursty leading to a perceived 'choppiness'. That is happens by design (yes, its not a bug) as it allows to free up cpu time (take a look at the task manager, ndc only uses the amount of cpu needed instead of wasting a full core for busy waits like other emus do).The fact that i dislike vista and don't plan to switch os anytime soon makes the problem a bit bigger, as i can't test the behavior of any change i do . nullDC is tested under windows xp x64,c2d, gf8600 GTS (ati HD 4850 now, since i upgraded, but most of the code was writen with the 8600), and an audigy soundcard.I just assume that rest OS/PCs will get similar results to my platform, as i can't afford to buy 20 test systems and dedicate time testing at em.

November 20th, 2008	#72 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	is sound plugin based? could always russel up a openal plugin, or even better since both creative, and realtek have access to DSHW via OAL (Realtek 3D Soundback and Creative Alchemy) __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

December 8th, 2008	#73 (permalink)
Seffnot Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 6	umm sorry for the noob interjection here but the first post says to alter the CFG file, but mine looks nothing like the one displayed in the post. mine looks like the following: ";; nullDC cfg file ;; [nullDC_plugins] Current_PVR=nullPvr_Win32.dll Current_GDR=nullGDR_Win32.dll Current_AICA=nullAica_Win32.dll Current_ExtDevice=nullExtDev_Win32.dll Current_maple0_5=nullDCMapleDevices_Win32.dll:0 Current_maple1_5=NULL Current_maple2_5=NULL Current_maple3_5=NULL Current_maple0_0=nullDCMapleDevices_Win32.dll:2 Current_maple0_1=nullDCMapleDevices_Win32.dll:2 Current_maple0_2=NULL Current_maple0_3=NULL Current_maple0_4=NULL Current_maple1_0=NULL Current_maple1_1=NULL Current_maple1_2=NULL Current_maple1_3=NULL Current_maple1_4=NULL Current_maple2_0=NULL Current_maple2_1=NULL Current_maple2_2=NULL Current_maple2_3=NULL Current_maple2_4=NULL Current_maple3_0=NULL Current_maple3_1=NULL Current_maple3_2=NULL Current_maple3_3=NULL Current_maple3_4=NULL"

December 21st, 2008	#76 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	true NTSC is 59.91fps. __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

December 22nd, 2008	#78 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	isn't there a way to sync to audio? __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

January 25th, 2009	#80 (permalink)
Greenhawk84 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: US, OH Posts: 2	Ok so Vista works great for me and I dont understand what the deal is with people. Just download the F.E.A.R. 2 demo and it ran with flying colors on max settings. Anyway, NullDC is a great emulator but unfortunately for me I get choppy sound when in full screen, yet amazing graphics and frame rate. Oddly in windowed mode I do not get sound issues but the graphics are slower. Mortal Kombat Gold is the main game I play. The sound is actually great for a while until I get late into a match. Ive tried Soul Calibur and Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 and those games seemed ok. Havnt played them nearly as much as MKG though to be sure. I have a Dell XPS 420 with a Nvidia 8800GT 512MB, Intel Q6600 @ 2.40ghz, and Sigmatel on-board audio. I use NullDC nommu 1.0.3 with Windows Vista SP1. Plugins I use nullPVR Aug20/08 and nullAICA Aug20/08. AICA buffer set at 2048. Sync audio on. As mentioned the graphics and frames in full screen are superb on my rig just not the sound.