why there is no thread about nulldc on psp

[kjall]

i was wondering why isn't there any thread about nulldc on psp since raz has annunced that he will start working on one for the psp lite in the future plans for nulldc thread by phantoma so ppl i am noob so dont get mad of me if my qstion was stupied.

[Hard core Rikki]

Because Raz has not released that, and noone other than authors would be expected to post threads about unreleased stuff.

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[kjall]

no i was talking about the work progress like in nulldc but thanx any way

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Last edited by kjall; June 10th, 2008 at 22:21..

[buugtdbgt]

umm....isnt it impossibl to emulate dreamcast on the psp tho....? i mean the psp can barley run n64.

[Xtreme2damax]

Originally Posted by denis411

umm....isnt it impossibl to emulate dreamcast on the psp tho....? i mean the psp can barley run n64.

Extremely slow - yes, impossible - probably not.

It might be possible to emulate the DC on the PSP, but is is going to have a lot of missing features the PSP isn't capable of and be extremely slow.

PC's are now just able to emulate the dreamcast decently, still even some games struggle. A PC is much more powerful than the PSP, the PSP would struggle a lot trying to emulate the Dreamcast.

N64 emulators are barely able to achieve anything above 10 - 15 FPS on the PSP, the Dreamcast is significantly more powerful than the N64.

Currently there are no plans of a DC emulator for PSP or any other platform as it would be pointless and a waste of time when the time could be better spent elsewhere such as a new release of NullDC for the PC and new plugins.

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[shashClp]

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

It might be possible to emulate the DC on the PSP, but is is going to have a lot of missing features the PSP isn't capable of and be extremely slow.

Which features? Are you just guessing? Afaik, the GPU's are similar, and the rest can be emulated. Back up your words with proper information, or else don't do such affirmations based on wild guessing, please.

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

N64 emulators are barely able to achieve anything above 10 - 15 FPS on the PSP, the Dreamcast is significantly more powerful than the N64.

Daedalus gets more than 15 fps on Mario 64, way more. At least R13, that the only version I've tried.

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

Currently there are no plans of a DC emulator for PSP or any other platform as it would be pointless and a waste of time when the time could be better spent elsewhere such as a new release of NullDC for the PC and new plugins.

There're plans, you just have to read a bit. Well, it's their time, and if the want to port it to PSP, then you'll have to accept it, like it or not.

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[Xtreme2damax]

Originally Posted by shashClp

Which features? Are you just guessing? Afaik, the GPU's are similar, and the rest can be emulated. Back up your words with proper information, or else don't do such affirmations based on wild guessing, please.

I read a while back that the emulating the GPU in the DC is more difficult at least for PC because PC graphics cards are lacking certain features the DC has, I believe there was mention about it from drkraziel in some thread around here.

I wouldn't of expected the PSP to have those features that PC GPU's lack.

Originally Posted by shashClp

Daedalus gets more than 15 fps on Mario 64, way more. At least R13, that the only version I've tried.

I did mention 15 FPS or greater in my post, it depends. In Mario 64 the FPS jumps around a bit, lows were 10 FPS highest were 15+ FPS, also the DC is a much more powerful/complex/capable console than the N64 so there is no doubt emulation would be much slower when trying to emulate the DC than the N64.

Then again I haven't had a PSP in a couple years, so I don't know really what's changed since then. With the way Sony is attempting to lock down the PSP now it's more tedious than before trying to get custom code running on it than it was with firmware 1.50, unless there exists custom firmware or a downgrader that guarantees you won't brick you're PSP in the process.

I think even Pandora's battery was put to a stop by Sony with a firmware update, but am not sure.

Originally Posted by shashClp

There're plans, you just have to read a bit. Well, it's their time, and if the want to port it to PSP, then you'll have to accept it, like it or not.

There was mention of him tinkering with the source for PSP and the possibility of porting it, I would hardly call it a plan. It's best not to get anyones hopes up, as it will just lead to pointless questions on releases and release dates if things don't go as expected.

Until there is an official news announcement about a port to PSP, I wouldn't hope too much as of now for a PSP port.

We haven't even heard anything else about a new release for the PC yet, drkraziel had plans to release it at the beginning of April, but he had to delay it and said a new release would be out no later than a month from that date, it's been two months since then and not even any more news about the Windows version of NullDC.

For the record, no I am not complaining as I respect developers time and efforts, and realize they have their own lives to worry about besides emulation, I just mentioned that for the reason we shouldn't be too hopeful on a PSP port when there hasn't been anything more mentioned about the Windows version of NullDC.

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[shashClp]

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

I read a while back that the emulating the GPU in the DC is more difficult at least for PC because PC graphics cards are lacking certain features the DC has, I believe there was mention about it from drkraziel in some thread around here.

I wouldn't of expected the PSP to have those features that PC GPU's lack.

Could you be a bit more specific? Afaik, the main problem with the DC emulation is due to the lack of zbuffer of the PowerVR, because it's uses a tile based ordering scheme. Which can be emulated exactly on PSP as on PC. There isn't a limiting factor, it's just a speed issue.

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

I did mention 15 FPS or greater in my post, it depends. In Mario 64 the FPS jumps around a bit, lows were 10 FPS highest were 15+ FPS, also the DC is a much more powerful/complex/capable console than the N64 so there is no doubt emulation would be much slower when trying to emulate the DC than the N64. (...)

Of course it's more challenging to emulate, and it'll be slower than Nintendo64 emulation, that's obvious.

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

I think even Pandora's battery was put to a stop by Sony with a firmware update, but am not sure.

No, it was done with a hardware revision.

Originally Posted by Xtreme2damax

There was mention of him tinkering with the source for PSP and the possibility of porting it, I would hardly call it a plan. It's best not to get anyones hopes up, as it will just lead to pointless questions on releases and release dates if things don't go as expected.

Until there is an official news announcement about a port to PSP, I wouldn't hope too much as of now for a PSP port. (...)

Did you even read the thread I posted? Specifically this post. Of course it's not written on stone, and it's not meant to get people's hopes up, but if he says he's planning to do so, I won't be the one saying that's not a plan.

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[Xtreme2damax]

Did you even read the thread I posted? Specifically this post. Of course it's not written on stone, and it's not meant to get people's hopes up, but if he says he's planning to do so, I won't be the one saying that's not a plan.

Yes and this is the only mention of PSP I saw him post:

I plan to start a rewrite from scratch that will target embeded enviroments (psp lite for now) that will be opensource

Okay so maybe I misinterpreted it a bit, but still it's not concrete or set in stone, which was the point of my original post.

I maybe chose the wrong words for my post, would it of been better if I had said, "Currently there was mention of a plan to port the source over to PSP, however depending on complications and if anything arises or anything changes I wouldn't hope too much at this point of time"?

I'm sorry if I can't find the right words to say, I've been bouncing back between a lot of forums posting replies and helping when I can and haven't been getting much sleep lately.

I didn't think a conflict would of arisen just because I was slightly misinformed or misinterpreted something the wrong way or couldn't find the right thing to say for my reply. I didn't mean to cause any conflict or upset anyone and am sorry I am more inexperienced than some individuals here, I was just posting what I had read earlier about the PowerVR and had no idea the PSP was capable of emulating it.

I never stated that DC emulation on the PSP was impossible, just that it would be slow.

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[drkIIRaziel]

There are some videos of the intial port up on youtube

YouTube - nullDC PSP Build 7-26-08

[PsyMan]

And these 2 are from a day earlier...

RAW:


Using external camera:

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[snickothemule]

Impressive.

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[saulin]

No offence but isn't it a waste of time since really I don't think the chances of DC emulation ever running full speed on a PSP are very good.

The PSP runs PSX games at full speed but I don't think is through pure emulation. And SNES emulation full speed might never happen on a lot of games as well. If it can't handle SNES is not likely to handle DC.

Just my 2 cents. But I guess just to prove it can be done it could be a project.

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[PsyMan]

Before this whole story about possibilities goes on again let me point some things out:

1. DC is not SNES, nor N64, nor PSX.

2. Even without a single optimization nullDC runs at 10% of full speed on interpreter mode.

3. The goal of the project is not to just port the emu to PSP but to make a rewrite targeting various embedded environments apart from PSP.

4. There is a debate on whether it is possible to reach fullspeed DC emulation on PSP. Most people say that it can't happen (ranging from knowledgeable developers to average Joes) but raz thinks that under specific circumstances it might be possible. If it's not, then there is no big deal since this is not the primary goal anyway.

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[jens.l]

I think it is impressive enough that somebody is trying this.

Maybe the next genaration handhelds or gadgets with better processor/graphic power can handle the good old games from the Dreamcast.

And if Raziel has already a working base for this target, than he is probably the first who can do it, before other will think about it.(sorry about my english)

Too bad that companys are not trying to make an Emulator handheld for consoles like Dreamcast, PS2 and Gamecube. After nearly ten years, it should be possible to make this real I think.
The Games for these systems are great,already sold and on the market.
So there is no reason to make a bad clone of these good games.
Probably the Pandora will only do it for PS1 and N64, but maybe in 2-3 years, I am sure it should happen also for the Dreamcast.

Mach weiter so.
jens

[Silenus]

Oh my God.
That is really impressive.
Although I am waiting for a CPS3 emulator for PSP, SF3 on the go would be awesome.
It is great to see we have a lot of great devs interested in the psp too.

Good luck with your project Raz.

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[Devil Master]

The goal of the project is not to just port the emu to PSP but to make a rewrite targeting various embedded environments apart from PSP.

What embedded environments? iPhone? Other cell phones? GP2X? Industrial PCs?

[quadomatic]

Originally Posted by Devil Master

What embedded environments? iPhone? Other cell phones? GP2X? Industrial PCs?

No way iPhone could handle it. Not the GP2X for sure...but...how about Pandora (spiritual successor to GP2X made by members of the community)?

It uses a PowerVR SGX for its GPU (Dreamcast uses PowerVR) and an ARM Cortex-A8 CPU clocked at 600mhz. Supposedly it could reach speeds of 900mhz, but I don't know for sure.

It's far more powerful than the PSP. A DC emulator would likely take a LOT of work, and maybe would still not be playable, but its a better shot for nullDC than PSP.

[drkIIRaziel]

A Pandora port is planned, as soon as i get a pandora myself

[quadomatic]

Originally Posted by drkIIRaziel

A Pandora port is planned, as soon as i get a pandora myself

Very awesome!

craigix is sending dev units to developers now. If you want one, you could get on the list:

http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=41837