NullDC plans for the future?

[Janolsen86]

Im not asking for next releases, but can the team tell something about future plans for NullDC? Are you going to work on this emulator until it reach a "final" version (not beta)?

[drkIIRaziel]

Extensive testing, plugins that dont crash randomly (or due to missconfiguration), fully implemented plugin interfaces (so i can make the specifications public ). The 'beta' status has nothing to do with the completeness of the emulation, it qualifies the 'quality' and stability of the release.

[Janolsen86]

Well its good to know that you are working on it! I used to play games on Chankast, but havent heard anything in almost 5 years now! I dont know what happened

[ready2rumbelX]

Raziel, thanks for the effort. It's a fantastic project, and well worth the time you've invested in it. There's no price for the happiness you're responsible for.

r2rX

[Janolsen86]

You bet! Dreamcast is the best emulator out there, but it`s HARD to get these days. I bought one on Ebay not long ago, but it`s fun to use emulators as well.

[Sakuraii]

For me the emulator is already 100% compatible/working. I don't think there is much to left to change.

[Janolsen86]

It`s working very well, but I think it`s pretty hard to get a DC emulator to be perfect. NullDC still have some bugs, but is working VERY well indeed. I hope there will be more releases soon !!

[Aquashark]

if you ever plan to add Netplay support i recommend Kaillera p2p client.
[kaillera.movsq.net]

although it's named so.. it doesn't share anything with the infamous Kaillera project (which is outdated, laggy and unsecure).. it's just trying to be a p2p alternative to Kaillera.

it's open source and totally transparent and has good lag compensation algorithms (it's almost perfect even @ 100-150ms ping with minimal input delay, and decently playable @ 150+ ms).

[vicious1988]

Do you plan on releasing the source code? I'd love to take a crack at porting this for the Wii homebrew scene.

[drkIIRaziel]

There are varius complications around the source code so opensourcing isnt that simple.I do plan to release source, but that requires massive amount of work to be possible.nullDC is designed and implemented around x86/Windows and relies havily on features like managed memory, file mapping and other OS services that are typicaly not avaiable on consoles.I plan to start a rewrite from scratch that will target embeded enviroments (psp lite for now) that will be opensource

[phantoma]

You've read my mind, since I've also looked at the possibility of porting a DC emulator to the PSP.

I would be a great console to run DC on, since it has the same button configuration and the wide screen display/wifi capabilities offer something unique that may not be present in the even the PC enviroments.

However, I've always thought that the major problem would be making an efficient enough code that will use the psp without wasting resources. The dreamcast runs at 300mhz(200 cpu/100 gpu) while the psp runs at 499mhz(333mhz/166mhz), I don't know if its possible since it recommended that you use a 2ghz CPU to run Null on the PC.

Not to mention that psp homebrew runs on the CPU which is not 499mhz but 333mhz. I would like to believe that it may be possible but it would require heavy tweaking.

Daedalus on the PSP, runs at 333mhz, and has limited compatibility with only 2 games running at full-speed with sound and at their 14th release. Other games do run but far from 100%.

[Jebusman]

hey phantoma, don't want to burst your bubble, but a Dreamcast on a PSP? Let's point out a few things wrong with that.

1: You don't combine the CPU and GPU to get a speed. They are two seperate things, the dreamcast RUNS at 200MHz, NOT 300MHz. Just like the PSP runs at 333MHz, NOT 499MHz.

2. widescreen and wifi capabilities mean nothing, since the DC didn't have wifi (and I'm sure most game did not have specific widescreen display support).

3. Daedalus is an N64 EMULATOR (I think). this, is a DC emulator. An entire generation difference. comparing the two is like comparing apples to LSD.

I don't doubt that a DC emulator would be "plausible", but "practical" is pretty much out of the question.

[drkIIRaziel]

Well i think i can manage to get playable speeds, so i'l give it a try .nullDC can allready convert dc games to widescreen (well, it doesnt allways work too well...).

*edit*: note that this is only possible for psp lite (the older one doesnt have the amount of ram needed, simple as that)

[phantoma]

Originally Posted by Jebusman

hey phantoma, don't want to burst your bubble, but a Dreamcast on a PSP? Let's point out a few things wrong with that.

1: You don't combine the CPU and GPU to get a speed. They are two seperate things, the dreamcast RUNS at 200MHz, NOT 300MHz. Just like the PSP runs at 333MHz, NOT 499MHz.

2. widescreen and wifi capabilities mean nothing, since the DC didn't have wifi (and I'm sure most game did not have specific widescreen display support).

3. Daedalus is an N64 EMULATOR (I think). this, is a DC emulator. An entire generation difference. comparing the two is like comparing apples to LSD.

I don't doubt that a DC emulator would be "plausible", but "practical" is pretty much out of the question.

You dont appear to understand.

1.) I was just stating the CPU/GPU speed total to display the differences. In processing power. While in emulation you require powerful hardware to emulate software.

2.) Widescreen was described as a benefit in the sense that the emulator could display your corner of the screen in a multiplayer game, the same could be said for WIFI. I meant wifi in the sense of online multiplayer support through wireless support, or ad-hoc multiplayer support.

3.) I compared this to Daedalus due to both being emulators. Stating that while Daedalus is at a working level it uses up almost all of the psp's resources, using the cpu at its max(333mhz). So to put it in your words; If the psp could hardly play apples, after months of development, then do you really think it could play LSD?

My best guess would be that you could probably play 1-2 launch titles. At a near final version at full speed with sound. But you would have to take away alot from the actual game.

Originally Posted by drkIIRaziel

Well i think i can manage to get playable speeds, so i'l give it a try .nullDC can allready convert dc games to widescreen (well, it doesnt allways work too well...).

*edit*: note that this is only possible for psp lite (the older one doesnt have the amount of ram needed, simple as that)

It would be a great mistake to not attempt to develop something for the original psp, since most of those are homebrew compatible.There are 20+ million psps in the market, most of those are psp old. If you release something only for the psp lite you limit the amount of psp using your app and thus limit the amount of support.

The dreamcast uses 26MiB of memory in total(16 main/8 video/2 sound), the psp(old) uses 32mb while the lite uses 64mb, double of that of the old psp, most of which is used for upscaling the visual screen from the psp to a television screen and UMD buffering.

If has been thought that you could use that extra ram for better performance but it has yet to be seen in homebrew. Either way it would suck to have to buy another psp just for a dreamcast emulator. I could buy a dreamcast(used/refurbished) for that amount of money.

[drkIIRaziel]

no, dc actualy has more memory (you frogot the bios ;p).The kernel reserves 8 mb on the psp so you realy only have 24mb usable.There are ways to fit the memory on em but its just not practial speedwise.You can address the extra memory directly from what i know.The lite has 52 mb of mem avaiable for user memory witch is still on the low side (hint : nullDC for windows needs ~ 70 mb of ram ingoring the texture cache).The project will be opensource anyway.I dont have any expirience with psp deving, and only minnor expirience with mips as an architecture generaly but i *think* i'l get playable speed.I must add here that ZeZu that has done some psp deving thinks its quite impossible -- i very well could be wrong.

About the target audience, keep in mind i do that for myself and my own pleasure, in my own free time w/o asking any money for it.I dont realy care if users wont use it.That is their problem.If a dc is cheaper go buy it, it will also do a much better work.I dont even have a psp to start with (so the hole project will cost me at least 170 euros).So please spare me the money reason, i simply dont care.

[cruelcynic]

If you got DC to run on the psp decently I would go out and buy one.

[chesso]

it sounds unlikely to me that it will reach playable speeds, but good luck! and, most importantly, have fun doing it

[Quake3k]

Well if you can get that running on psp at full speed you can even get it to run on nokia symbian s60 phones eks N95 have 2x332mhz arm cpu and 64mb ram and a 3d chip

info: Nokia N95 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i would say it will be impossible to get it to run on a psp or you gotta be a really hard coder

[Phil]

2 cpu's? then why is the n95 so sluggish? my phone has one 416mhz cpu with 164 ram and it can keep up with the n95...even exceeds it in some test

[cruelcynic]

Ya I don't really see it happening on psp. Hell the other handheld I am keeping an eye on the pandora has
# ARM® Cortex™-A8 600Mhz+ CPU running Linux
# 430-MHz TMS320C64x+™ DSP Core
# PowerVR SGX OpenGL 2.0 ES compliant 3D hardware
and I think like 128MB memory. The general consensus is that DC will be next to impossible as well. Shame.