Ramifications of PSP PSX emulator

Stevedroid · March 28th, 2006

So the rumor is that Sony will be releasing an official PSX emulator for the PSP. This raises a lot of questions.

First and foremost however is how the games will get onto the unit. The PSP obviously can't play PSX CDs directly. I can only think of a couple of different options, and none of them seems really obvious.

1) Sony will start selling PSX games on UMDs or flash memory cards. However, what about 3rd party games. Presumably Sony could only be responsible for the resale of the games it owns so they're really limiting the number of playable games.

2) Sony will start a game download service. Same deal about 3rd party games applies though.

3) The emulator will play ISOs and Sony will leave things up to the users in terms of copying the games onto flash cards. This seems very unlikely though since it would be seen as endorsing game copying, plus there's presumably a huge selection of pirated ISOs out there.

4) Sony will release software that will copy PSX CDs into a prioprietary format. They'd have to do something to tie these to a specific user or unit so they don't end up being distributed like ISOs though. Such a thing may not be possible unless PSP units are individually recognizable in software by an electronic serial number or similar - and I'm not sure the PSP has that.

I wonder if they do start offering downloads whether or not they'll make an officially endorsed PC emulator. Seems unlikely, but they're not really worried about PS1 market penetration anymore. I mean people aren't buying PS2s and soon to be PS3s to play PS1 games so there's no financial reason for Sony not to make a PS1-PC emulator (well other than it may cost more to develop and support than it would earn).

Anyway do you think the PSP PSX emulator will have any effect on the PC emulator scene or is it different enough that it won't have any impact?

---edit----

Hmmm...in retrospect, now that I think about it I'm not sure Sony is releasing an emulator. I think maybe I just read somewhere that a (homebrew) PSX emulator was being developed for the PSP and my brain made a faulty connection making me think it was something Sony was officially doing.

chronomaster504 · March 28th, 2006

You are right, there will an offical PS1 emu. How much of an emu it will be remains in question since it will play modified PS1 (and from what i read even some PS2) games. The PS1/2 games will probably be distrobuted through the e-distrobution system they are setting up.
There is also a PS1 emulator being made by PacManFan and some people who are helping him. Right now its at a rough beta stage (5-10fps only running a few demos).

__________________
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Stevedroid · March 28th, 2006

Ah ok, good to know I wasn't just mixing memories then.

Yeah the online distribution model does seem most likely, though I still have to wonder how they'll keep things from being copied from unit to unit or the internet. Plus what about 3rd party games, I guess they'd have to work with Sony to get the game on their service, but you'd think a lot of companies would opt out just because theylll think the old games will not sell that well.

flowrent · March 28th, 2006

Sony will offer PSX games downloadable for PSP .
That's all they said officially .
This means either they port it for PSP or they make an emulator which they integrate in a new firmware and offer certain iso's for download.Also they might modify the controls for some of them .
A lot of security issues arise from the second option(emulator+iso's) but i'm sure they have something up their sleeves.

chronomaster504 · March 28th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevedroid

Ah ok, good to know I wasn't just mixing memories then.

Yeah the online distribution model does seem most likely, though I still have to wonder how they'll keep things from being copied from unit to unit or the internet. Plus what about 3rd party games, I guess they'd have to work with Sony to get the game on their service, but you'd think a lot of companies would opt out just because they won't think the old games will sell that well.

For the e-distrobution thing, my guess is that you will have to register you PSP with your MAC address and the downloaded games will be tied to that MAC address
For the 3rd party issue my guess is that Sony has all the source code to any game on their systems (they do have to sign them some how), so the only big deal legaly will be with licensing (but they may have some deal already with that to, who knows).

__________________
"When facing death, the impossible is much less of a barrier" - Prince of Persia

**hushypushy** · March 28th, 2006

well....a lot of companies that made these games dont exist anymore. also, im not so sure how willing a lot of companies would be to invest in a proprietary system (aka, selling and marketing UMDs with games on them).

its complex, only because of storage issues. hell, maybe they could say "make an ISO with ISObuster and throw it on a memory stick" but then you'd need an army of 512 or 1gig memory sticks, etc. and if you downloaded it there'd be a similar problem. also, games that use the R3 button or right stick are really SOL, eh? i really dont know how they're going to do this, i am interested in seeing how it turns out.

chronomaster504 · March 28th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by hushypushy

well....a lot of companies that made these games dont exist anymore. also, im not so sure how willing a lot of companies would be to invest in a proprietary system (aka, selling and marketing UMDs with games on them).

its complex, only because of storage issues. hell, maybe they could say "make an ISO with ISObuster and throw it on a memory stick" but then you'd need an army of 512 or 1gig memory sticks, etc. and if you downloaded it there'd be a similar problem. also, games that use the R3 button or right stick are really SOL, eh? i really dont know how they're going to do this, i am interested in seeing how it turns out.

First, if the companies (if Sony dosent do it all it's self) use the emu way of doing things, they wouldent be investing in UMD's, just the process of making the games
Storage is an issue, but also could make profit for Sony (if people buy Sony mem sticks)
About the controls how many PS1 games required L/R 3 (seeing as the origanl controller didn't have these buttons) but L/R 2 would need to be accounted for and thats probably something that would be modifyed.

__________________
"When facing death, the impossible is much less of a barrier" - Prince of Persia

Last edited by chronomaster504; March 28th, 2006 at 05:21.

**Razor Blade** · March 28th, 2006

Like it has been said these games will be modified, most likely to fill the entirety oif the PSP's screen and also account for the button configurations. This emulator will not be for PS2 games at all! That is a pure rumor and one that isn't true.

They will distruibuted through some sort of Sony online service, one of a kiosk type,that has been seen at GDC here. Although i'm sure the main one will simply be through wifi that you can connect to anywhere.

Yes PacManFan is developing a PSone emu for the PSP (one which I am helping out with) The community is still supporting him and as far as I know he is still working hard on it! It's not like sony is going to be releasing every single (modified) PSone game or anything for the PSP, so a PSone homebrew emulator for the PSP is something we should all be looking forward to as well.

All these games will cost a "small fee" I would guess about 5-15 bucks USD which would be a bargain IMHO. Because it is distributed didigtally it's saving both Sony and the consumer money.

I was really cautious not to upgrade my PSP, but once this comes out i'm pretty sure I will

I hope all you PSP owners are looking forward to this October! And as soon as this becomes available, I will write up a little review (with pics) here, but that won't be for a while!

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**hushypushy** · March 28th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronomaster504

Storage is an issue, but also could make profit for Sony (if people buy Sony mem sticks)

heh, doubtful. if the games are cheap, like RB said, that's cool, but memory sticks definitely arent. i dont know many people who can afford to keep up a collection of 1gig memory sticks.

**moomoomoo** · March 28th, 2006

When I get some time I should be helping PacManFan with PSPSone. It's not bad at the moment, but has a few issues. The 5-10 FPS someone mentioned above is because it's working through the interpreter at the moment. Recompiler's nearly running but has a few bugs that need sorting. Few other things are broken but it's getting on nicely. Watch this space!

FFVII Forever · March 28th, 2006

I have togo read again and i will edit this post but i believe they already discussed how they will be distributing the games.

EDIT - Okay sorta wrong on my part all they said is digitally distributed they also brought up a new PSP with flash possibility and they confirmed a rumor that it will supoort flash 6 games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sony

In addition, Kutaragi announced that Sony is developing an emulator that will allow PSPs to play original PlayStation games. He said the PS games would be digitally distributed to PSPs, adding ammo to rumors that Sony is planning to distribute classic games much like Microsoft already does with the Xbox 360 and Nintendo will with the Revolution.

Since the PSP's built-in memory is limited, the digital-distribution announcement also seems to lend credence to the rumor that a second PSP with built-in flash memory is in the works, though Kutaragi did not confirm so explicitly.

Kutaragi concretely confirmed another rumor--that the PSP would play games made with version 6 of Macromedia Flash. He also said the handheld would support RSS feeds later this year.

**Kane** · March 28th, 2006

It'd make so more sense if they made it possible to hook up an external CD/DVDR to the machine.
The PSP DVD addon. I'm sure it'd sell like hot cakes.

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**Dark Watcher** · March 28th, 2006

Hmm...We imagine Sony would do select PSX game titles, and would reduce the resolution quality of MDECS (since the PSP has no need for 640x480 interlaced / non-interlaced modes) and perhaps sound (Kind of similar to the Dreamcast bubbas that crunch down GD-ROM games to fit on a CD). They were contributors to the Yellow Book CD-ROM / XA standard after all. The downloads will be smaller, and Sony may drop the price of their GIGAPACK PSP. This may encourage sales. The new format of course will be proprietary, and only some PSX games will be converted.

We also may see Sony take a page from Nintendo with their IQUE service. They will introduced Memory Duo sticks with digital signature embedded. The Duo is specific to the user and a download log can detect what games have been purchased / downloaded..and as we wrote for IQUE
If a purchased game is deleted simply to make room for another game, it can be downloaded again for free the next time.

__________________

**hushypushy** · March 29th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane

It'd make so more sense if they made it possible to hook up an external CD/DVDR to the machine.
The PSP DVD addon. I'm sure it'd sell like hot cakes.

that's a battery sucker right there, eh?

yeah it'd still sell like crazy too, i can see it now, "well i can only watch about half of a movie before my battery dies but at least i dont have to keep buying UMDs"

chronomaster504 · March 29th, 2006

This is what makes me wonder if it is infact a PS1 emu, or just modded PS1 games:
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...reen0075nz.jpg
^ the above pic is from Ken Kutaragi's speach about PSP and PS3. I don't see PS1 emu on that list, but i do see "memory stick boot" it makes me think that maybe they just used the word emulator to up the hype around the FW but guess we won't know untill Sept-Oct.

__________________
"When facing death, the impossible is much less of a barrier" - Prince of Persia

Sotyrulz · April 22nd, 2006

I believe sony definately has to have something up their sleeve if they are going to pull this off, if the games were put on UMDs then i would still buy them, i hope they manage to port mgs over to the psp that would be great, but maybe they will make a small extention to add the L/R 2 buttons, you never know. Also you never know what they would be able to do, maybe a small extention to port the ps1 games over to the mini dvds and an addon that could play them? if they did do an emulator, unless they have some way of grealty compressing the games, i see nothing but extremely high prices payed beucase everyone has to go out and buy memory sticks.

If this is an emulator for the games where you must throw them on memory sticks then sony has to do something becusae not everyone has that kind of space, so i seroulsy doubt that is oging to be what it will be like, maybe they can put the games on UMDs and keep them the same as the regualr PSone games, and make it so the emulator is the only thing htat can run these UMDs, you never know but as it was pionted out before there is a possibility that sony wont be allowed to release the games of other companies on UMD discs.

i guess the only way to know is to wait.

March 28th, 2006	#1 (permalink)
Stevedroid Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 43	Ramifications of PSP PSX emulator So the rumor is that Sony will be releasing an official PSX emulator for the PSP. This raises a lot of questions. First and foremost however is how the games will get onto the unit. The PSP obviously can't play PSX CDs directly. I can only think of a couple of different options, and none of them seems really obvious. 1) Sony will start selling PSX games on UMDs or flash memory cards. However, what about 3rd party games. Presumably Sony could only be responsible for the resale of the games it owns so they're really limiting the number of playable games. 2) Sony will start a game download service. Same deal about 3rd party games applies though. 3) The emulator will play ISOs and Sony will leave things up to the users in terms of copying the games onto flash cards. This seems very unlikely though since it would be seen as endorsing game copying, plus there's presumably a huge selection of pirated ISOs out there. 4) Sony will release software that will copy PSX CDs into a prioprietary format. They'd have to do something to tie these to a specific user or unit so they don't end up being distributed like ISOs though. Such a thing may not be possible unless PSP units are individually recognizable in software by an electronic serial number or similar - and I'm not sure the PSP has that. I wonder if they do start offering downloads whether or not they'll make an officially endorsed PC emulator. Seems unlikely, but they're not really worried about PS1 market penetration anymore. I mean people aren't buying PS2s and soon to be PS3s to play PS1 games so there's no financial reason for Sony not to make a PS1-PC emulator (well other than it may cost more to develop and support than it would earn). Anyway do you think the PSP PSX emulator will have any effect on the PC emulator scene or is it different enough that it won't have any impact? ---edit---- Hmmm...in retrospect, now that I think about it I'm not sure Sony is releasing an emulator. I think maybe I just read somewhere that a (homebrew) PSX emulator was being developed for the PSP and my brain made a faulty connection making me think it was something Sony was officially doing.

March 29th, 2006	#15 (permalink)
chronomaster504 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 19	but... This is what makes me wonder if it is infact a PS1 emu, or just modded PS1 games: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...reen0075nz.jpg ^ the above pic is from Ken Kutaragi's speach about PSP and PS3. I don't see PS1 emu on that list, but i do see "memory stick boot" it makes me think that maybe they just used the word emulator to up the hype around the FW but guess we won't know untill Sept-Oct. __________________ "When facing death, the impossible is much less of a barrier" - Prince of Persia

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March 28th, 2006	#2 (permalink)
chronomaster504 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 19	You are right, there will an offical PS1 emu. How much of an emu it will be remains in question since it will play modified PS1 (and from what i read even some PS2) games. The PS1/2 games will probably be distrobuted through the e-distrobution system they are setting up. There is also a PS1 emulator being made by PacManFan and some people who are helping him. Right now its at a rough beta stage (5-10fps only running a few demos). __________________ "When facing death, the impossible is much less of a barrier" - Prince of Persia

March 28th, 2006	#3 (permalink)
Stevedroid Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 43	Ah ok, good to know I wasn't just mixing memories then. Yeah the online distribution model does seem most likely, though I still have to wonder how they'll keep things from being copied from unit to unit or the internet. Plus what about 3rd party games, I guess they'd have to work with Sony to get the game on their service, but you'd think a lot of companies would opt out just because theylll think the old games will not sell that well.

March 28th, 2006	#4 (permalink)
flowrent European Citizen xD Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest ,RO Posts: 338	Sony will offer PSX games downloadable for PSP . That's all they said officially . This means either they port it for PSP or they make an emulator which they integrate in a new firmware and offer certain iso's for download.Also they might modify the controls for some of them . A lot of security issues arise from the second option(emulator+iso's) but i'm sure they have something up their sleeves.

March 28th, 2006	#6 (permalink)
hushypushy the only one you've ever SEEN Join Date: May 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 21,879	well....a lot of companies that made these games dont exist anymore. also, im not so sure how willing a lot of companies would be to invest in a proprietary system (aka, selling and marketing UMDs with games on them). its complex, only because of storage issues. hell, maybe they could say "make an ISO with ISObuster and throw it on a memory stick" but then you'd need an army of 512 or 1gig memory sticks, etc. and if you downloaded it there'd be a similar problem. also, games that use the R3 button or right stick are really SOL, eh? i really dont know how they're going to do this, i am interested in seeing how it turns out.

March 28th, 2006	#8 (permalink)
Razor Blade Locked and Loaded Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I AM CANADIAN! Posts: 12,032	Like it has been said these games will be modified, most likely to fill the entirety oif the PSP's screen and also account for the button configurations. This emulator will not be for PS2 games at all! That is a pure rumor and one that isn't true. They will distruibuted through some sort of Sony online service, one of a kiosk type,that has been seen at GDC here. Although i'm sure the main one will simply be through wifi that you can connect to anywhere. Yes PacManFan is developing a PSone emu for the PSP (one which I am helping out with) The community is still supporting him and as far as I know he is still working hard on it! It's not like sony is going to be releasing every single (modified) PSone game or anything for the PSP, so a PSone homebrew emulator for the PSP is something we should all be looking forward to as well. All these games will cost a "small fee" I would guess about 5-15 bucks USD which would be a bargain IMHO. Because it is distributed didigtally it's saving both Sony and the consumer money. I was really cautious not to upgrade my PSP, but once this comes out i'm pretty sure I will I hope all you PSP owners are looking forward to this October! And as soon as this becomes available, I will write up a little review (with pics) here, but that won't be for a while! __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0 GHz ● NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS ● 2GB DDR2 RAM Hitachi 120GB HD ● Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive ● Windows Vista Home Premium ● Dell 2007WFP LCD ● Dell XPS M1330 Laptop ● 1TB Western Digital MyBook External HD ● Logitech Z10 Speakers ● PLAYSTATION 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 28th, 2006	#10 (permalink)
moomoomoo Administrator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK Posts: 848	When I get some time I should be helping PacManFan with PSPSone. It's not bad at the moment, but has a few issues. The 5-10 FPS someone mentioned above is because it's working through the interpreter at the moment. Recompiler's nearly running but has a few bugs that need sorting. Few other things are broken but it's getting on nicely. Watch this space!

March 28th, 2006	#12 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,305	It'd make so more sense if they made it possible to hook up an external CD/DVDR to the machine. The PSP DVD addon. I'm sure it'd sell like hot cakes. __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb

March 28th, 2006	#13 (permalink)
Dark Watcher Coffee Demon Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Darkness, Unknown Posts: 2,905	Hmm...We imagine Sony would do select PSX game titles, and would reduce the resolution quality of MDECS (since the PSP has no need for 640x480 interlaced / non-interlaced modes) and perhaps sound (Kind of similar to the Dreamcast bubbas that crunch down GD-ROM games to fit on a CD). They were contributors to the Yellow Book CD-ROM / XA standard after all. The downloads will be smaller, and Sony may drop the price of their GIGAPACK PSP. This may encourage sales. The new format of course will be proprietary, and only some PSX games will be converted. We also may see Sony take a page from Nintendo with their IQUE service. They will introduced Memory Duo sticks with digital signature embedded. The Duo is specific to the user and a download log can detect what games have been purchased / downloaded..and as we wrote for IQUE If a purchased game is deleted simply to make room for another game, it can be downloaded again for free the next time. __________________

April 22nd, 2006	#16 (permalink)
Sotyrulz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: US Posts: 1	I believe sony definately has to have something up their sleeve if they are going to pull this off, if the games were put on UMDs then i would still buy them, i hope they manage to port mgs over to the psp that would be great, but maybe they will make a small extention to add the L/R 2 buttons, you never know. Also you never know what they would be able to do, maybe a small extention to port the ps1 games over to the mini dvds and an addon that could play them? if they did do an emulator, unless they have some way of grealty compressing the games, i see nothing but extremely high prices payed beucase everyone has to go out and buy memory sticks. If this is an emulator for the games where you must throw them on memory sticks then sony has to do something becusae not everyone has that kind of space, so i seroulsy doubt that is oging to be what it will be like, maybe they can put the games on UMDs and keep them the same as the regualr PSone games, and make it so the emulator is the only thing htat can run these UMDs, you never know but as it was pionted out before there is a possibility that sony wont be allowed to release the games of other companies on UMD discs. i guess the only way to know is to wait.