Creating PSX Perfection

[Clessoulis]

I have idea of totally easly made PSX emu.

There will be a nice fresh new GUI that will allow you to configure controls, resolution and sound sample. There will be a filter mode in which you can select filters. If the user doesn't know what they can handle there would be scan mode that chose the options best for there system based off its spec's. These would be the only options the user's would be able to control.

See I believe that when you give people the ablitly configure there emu's themself you loose user friendlyness and conpetive edge. For example I think that the plugin system is killing emulation. There's no point in using Epsxe over PCSX over AdriPSX ILE because they all use the damn plugin system. This means there all the same quality because there only as good as the quality of there plugins.

Your wondering how would this be done? Well defanitly not from the ground up.

The source's would work as followed.
AdriPSX ILE Would be the base for the emu and work as the loader of all the plugins. This is where all the work would have to be done to make a much better gui.

P.E.Op.S. PSX Soft GPU would be used for the graphic's dude to them being crappy source means you can change the way there call apon making them selectable through the new GUI.

P.E.Op.S. PSX Soft would be used for the cd drive because the emu could force the drive to auto find by using this plugins auto scan.

P.E.Op.S. DirectSound Open-Source SPU would be used for sound. The only thing the user would be able to configure is sample rate and sound filters.

The Bios would also be free source one so the user wouldn't have to go hunting down illegal one's. The bios would be PCSX's HLE bios. These would be the only bios that this emu could use.

Now of these plugins would be able to be changed which would make for a more stable free and much more user friendly emu that the public truly needs.

If you'd like to work on this dream of a project please email me at Clessoulis@edgeemu.com

[Allnatural]

???

Anyway, back to reality...

[zerocopy]

another retard this week.

[RF]

Hey! Allnatural, nice to see you again

Anyways. This is all true except for the scanning. If you are too dumb to read the readme's, search epsxe's main page (links to ngemu for plugins), and then search these forums on your problems, well, you should be using VGS. You would also have to release a new version every time a new plugin version comes out. Also every computer varies in its own little way, so thoes select plugins wont do. Every possible plugin must be incorporated.

[Kane]

>There will be a nice fresh new GUI that will allow you to configure controls, resolution and sound sample. There will be a filter mode in which you can select filters. If the user doesn't know what they can handle there would be scan mode that chose the options best for there system based off its spec's. These would be the only options the user's would be able to control.

OK, certain games are happier in certain resoloutions. and need certain effects on, some games hate filtering. Some people hate filtering. Any autodetecting algorithm wouldn't be an algorithm at all but a massive database of every PSX game ever created and what options can't be used in it.

>See I believe that when you give people the ablitly configure there emu's themself you loose user friendlyness and conpetive edge.

Use VGS then. That's the only way you are gonna be able to eliminate configuation from PSX games: Making it look like the original. Asking to create an emu without configs is just lazy on your part.

>For example I think that the plugin system is killing emulation. There's no point in using Epsxe over PCSX over AdriPSX ILE because they all use the damn plugin system. This means there all the same quality because there only as good as the quality of there plugins.

Hardly. The plugins are constantly evolving all the time, oft at a faster rate then the emus themselves. If we strip out the plugins, we are left with an emu still. It will still emulate the main CPU IOP and GTE of the PSX and more. ePSXe is more compatible than most. AdriPSX tends to be the fastest. PCSX has the HLE BIOS and PSXeven's constant updates result in it running games no other emu will.

>AdriPSX ILE Would be the base for the emu and work as the loader of all the plugins. This is where all the work would have to be done to make a much better gui.

AdriPSX is to incompatible to be a base IMO.

>P.E.Op.S. PSX Soft GPU would be used for the graphic's dude to them being crappy source means you can change the way there call apon making them selectable through the new GUI.

Defeats the object of the plugin system. The object is that we can use harwdware accelleration, higher resoloution (soft plugins don't really do that for 3d) filtering and FSAA.

>P.E.Op.S. PSX Soft would be used for the cd drive because the emu could force the drive to auto find by using this plugins auto scan

You mean PEOPs CDR? I've found it not as fast as Xevens in many cases, so I'll stick to Xeven's thank you very much.

>P.E.Op.S. DirectSound Open-Source SPU would be used for sound. The only thing the user would be able to configure is sample rate and sound filters.

Once again, you are gonna sacrifice compatibility and quality. Some games PEOPs doesn't like IIRC. Some games Eternal doesn't like.

It's hardly a dream project, it's you being lazy and wanting to not have to bother configuring anything. How about you program an emu from scratch then?
The Plugin system gives us choice and competing plugins and emus struggle to better each other and add features. Eternal has now twice extended the SPU plugin architecture. The CDR architecture was extended to support subchannel reads, the PAD plugins were extended to add vibration support.....

[Sera]

wow, i'm amazed...

[Kazuya Mishima]

The scanning thing cant be done. How hare you going to make the emu to guess what the config should be and above all, to guess what are your preferences? What if i dont like filtering or i do like? What if i want the framebuffer effects done in software and not done by the video card?

The emus are not the same. If they were then it would be only one. They are very different, the plugin system its to give you better graphics and sound but with the games ach emu can run in a good way. They are not the same.

About peops gpu. What is the point of using it? Then you can use vgs since you dont have 3d aceleration with peops, not bilinear filtering and a lot of other things. Also, if you want a good emulation with peops you will need atleast a 1.4 ghz processor and not everybody have it. If they have a lower processor they can still play at constant 60 fps with the help of the accelerated plugins. If you only use peops a lot of people with lower processors will get the following message in case your scan method works: You cant play this emu at full speed because of some lazy b@stard

Also, if you limit the spu to peops spu then you cant use eternal which its the most compatible and you wont get any good sound in games like xenogears and again i dont want to imagine being reduced to endure bad sound because of some lazy...

Oh, and with the bios if the pcsx the other emus cant work. The pcsx its designed to work with that. if you try to make the others work you will have to alter they programming making them less compatible and slower.

And you will be habing to encode every time a plugin its updated And as always, they have new features which means to have to reencode the emu's main code and the scan method and other things and if i remember you are to lazy to just configure a simple emu like epsxe.

Emu of your dremas? Im sorry if your dreams are to get all easy in life.

[Clessoulis]

It's not the fact I'm lazy its the fact that I wanted to create something fo people that are lazy. I use epsxe myself and know how to configure all of the plugins. Just think about plugin emu's vs non plugin.

Zsnes, Snes9x, Ultnes, GiriGiri Saturn, Kawaks, and the list could go on. Non plugin emu's have always been much better imho.

well, I disagree with that; however, I DO understand that separate emus + plugin systems aren't the most user-friendly. However, to drop everything because of that....uhm, no.

Things that can be done to make it easier...
1) well, the gui.. epsxe's gui itself is pretty straightforward and you're still stuck with those plugins. pete's plugin's gui's also got major improvements during development; so that's already pretty much made easy (what better to use than a standard windows menu layout?); in short, there's been work to make the guis better. Integrating the plugins with the emu to make things easier would defeat the purpose of the plugins: the option to use em in more than one emu.
2) Documentation. Simply because we know epsxe isn't the easiest ever, there are tons of documentation available.
3) Support forums. You're looking at it.

of course, you can praise the ease of use of Virtual Game Station; and I agree, it's great. There IS perhaps room for the following improvement (in epsxe): provide an instant working installer; for an example: look at how it was done in project 64 (an emu WITH plugins): you install it and it is instantly capable of running stuff. of course you still need to know about things when you want to change options; but it makes that step smaller. Things are a reverse-enginered bios are required for that though (pcsx) .

oh, and plugins don't make or break the emu; it might make em look similar, but they're not...

[Kane]

>Zsnes, Snes9x, Ultnes, GiriGiri Saturn, Kawaks, and the list could go on. Non plugin emu's have always been much better imho.

The SNES, NES, Genesis, CPS/2 are simpler system than that of the PSX. The plugin system is the most efficient way to do it (if we want improvement)

[Galway no Sora]

Without plugins ? Need not plugin would be nice, but I think the quality would be .... you know

[fivefeet8]

Originally posted by Clessoulis

See I believe that when you give people the ablitly configure there emu's themself you loose user friendlyness and conpetive edge.

Even newbs get the hang of configuring after a few tries. And the many available frontends make it even easier to run games with one click. "Competitive edge"? Haha. I don't think the emu authors are making their emus to be competitive. They aren't making any money from em, so why would they? It's the feeling of making something work or fixing a few bugs in their emulators that gratify them. That and the many fans of their "free" emulators thanking them.

[Chrono Archangel]

aniway plugin base emus are better. just ask Fabien Autrel, he remade his Saturn emulator so that it could be plugin based. having plugins gives the user alot more oprions too play around with. the emus are perfect the way they are

[Clessoulis]

I guess this idea just isnt liked to much here. I guess this is why these emu's will always remain open source and/or free while comerical ones normally work like they way I think they should and cost money.

[fivefeet8]

Originally posted by Clessoulis
I guess this idea just isnt liked to much here. I guess this is why these emu's will always remain open source and/or free while comerical ones normally work like they way I think they should and cost money.

Of course. Think about it. Commercial emulators are "selling" their product to the average person. The average person doesn't know too much about computers or emulators. So they have to make their emulator easier to use. That doesn't neccessarily mean the emu is more compatible or faster though.

[Kane]

Aye. VGS was ultra compatible for its time, but has since been superceded by emus like ePSXe.

[Clessoulis]

Originally posted by fivefeet8


Of course. Think about it. Commercial emulators are "selling" their product to the average person. The average person doesn't know too much about computers or emulators. So they have to make their emulator easier to use. That doesn't neccessarily mean the emu is more compatible or faster though.

But, thats the thing people shouldn't have to know anything to enjoy there psx games. All they should have to know is how to put the cd in the drive.

[Xeven]

and those are exactly the people we dont like.

[kairi00]

Originally posted by Clessoulis
But, thats the thing people shouldn't have to know anything to enjoy there psx games. All they should have to know is how to put the cd in the drive.

Oh yeah there's already a way to do that dude, and that is to put the CD into the drive of a real PSX.

Your goal and our goals (by 'our' I mean the people opposed to your ideas) differ.

Your goal is to get an experience as simple as the real PSX. Put the CD in, play away. There is already an emulator geared to that, and that is Connectix VGS. That is as close to a real PSX as you will get, in terms of configurability, experience, and performance. Connectix VGS is developed with this in mind.

Now the goal of ePSXe/PSXeven/AdriPSX/etc on the other hand, is to provide a wide range of possibilities to enhance and tweak the experience of playing PSX games. Graphical tweaks, increased resolution, filtering, framerates, or even to create 'special effects' (NickK's plugins come to mind). Granted, if you want minimal configuration effort, you can always use the Soft plugins and you have your 'close to PSX' experience with very minimal amount of tweaking. These free emulators were NOT, and I repeat, NOT developed with the intention of providing users with an almost authentic PSX experience. In my opinion, bleem! tried to cross this boundary (i.e. providing enhanced PSX experience while limiting configuration options to the minimum), and, truth be told, it got caught between a rock and a hard place. Users who want to just 'put-the-CD-and-play' is turned off by the configurations needed before playing (albeit REALLY minimal), and users who want to tweak feel the options are not adequate and plugin-based emus are much more tweakable and free anyways.

My $0.02.

[Clessoulis]

Originally posted by kairi00


Oh yeah there's already a way to do that dude, and that is to put the CD into the drive of a real PSX.

Your goal and our goals (by 'our' I mean the people opposed to your ideas) differ.

Your goal is to get an experience as simple as the real PSX. Put the CD in, play away. There is already an emulator geared to that, and that is Connectix VGS. That is as close to a real PSX as you will get, in terms of configurability, experience, and performance. Connectix VGS is developed with this in mind.

Now the goal of ePSXe/PSXeven/AdriPSX/etc on the other hand, is to provide a wide range of possibilities to enhance and tweak the experience of playing PSX games. Graphical tweaks, increased resolution, filtering, framerates, or even to create 'special effects' (NickK's plugins come to mind). Granted, if you want minimal configuration effort, you can always use the Soft plugins and you have your 'close to PSX' experience with very minimal amount of tweaking. These free emulators were NOT, and I repeat, NOT developed with the intention of providing users with an almost authentic PSX experience. In my opinion, bleem! tried to cross this boundary (i.e. providing enhanced PSX experience while limiting configuration options to the minimum), and, truth be told, it got caught between a rock and a hard place. Users who want to just 'put-the-CD-and-play' is turned off by the configurations needed before playing (albeit REALLY minimal), and users who want to tweak feel the options are not adequate and plugin-based emus are much more tweakable and free anyways.

My $0.02.

I do like the idea of VGS put it in and play but I like the idea of Bleemcast better. Put it in and joy how good psx emulation can be with enhanced graphics and no glitches.