wiisports emulation

[pipox]

i've read lots of questions about wii emulation and if its possible with present day systems. They are all answered with "no, look at the specs needed for gamecube emu." However...
i've seen noone refer to the turok emulation, that needed next to no specs to run, another example could be the radikal bikers emu..

there is a growing interest for wiimotes on pc's, and controls are fully functional.
wiisports is by far the most sold game on the wii, the gametypes are not the most system requirements demanding.

so my question is;

Could someone please write a wiisports emulator??...pretty please?

[Chrono Archangel]

buy a wii. youll appreciate playing the wii much more on a big screen with your friends than all alone on your pc....

as for a wii emulator. still far until we see one.

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[shashClp]

Get yourself proper information before comparing a PSX and a Xbox hardware to a Wii, to avoid showing how you REALLY didn't read nothing about those emulators and don't know why they're runable on current hardware...

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[pipox]

Originally Posted by shashClp

Get yourself proper information before comparing a PSX and a Xbox hardware to a Wii, to avoid showing how you REALLY didn't read nothing about those emulators and don't know why they're runable on current hardware...

Please get your facts straight, and get yourself propper information before claiming radikal bikers is based on the psx while in fact Gaelco uses his own custom hardware.
And i am also not comparing the wii to any of those systems...learn to read dip****..i am comparing the flow of progression and performance of standalone emus with those of their broader emulating brothers.

Originally Posted by Chrono Archangel

buy a wii. youll appreciate playing the wii much more on a big screen with your friends than all alone on your pc....

as for a wii emulator. still far until we see one.

i never buy consoles..i dont like the limitations and the way you are forced to keep spending money on it to make it keep its value. Also, when you look at the specs, the wii is an inferior system to xbox/ps3, with by far the superior system, the pc. What i do like about the wii, is the fact that allmost all games are made especially for the wiimote. representing a console type, not earlier emulated at pc.

1 of my little monitors is a beamer vpl-cx1 and my pcs are in my living room, 1 media pc and 1 for normal usage...i dont even have a tv...
i have connected 2 ps2 joypads and a wiimote+nunchuck, i have tons of emus on which i only kept the fun multiplayer games and i glued it all together with maximus arcade..a great frontend.

as for the wii emulator, somehow, i was expecting that a similar thing would happen, as has happened with the handheld nintendos... all could relatively easy be emulated with help of the code of the previous hendheld emu.
However.. it wouldve allready happened if this was the case with wii,

the 1 game emulators i have encountered seemed to popup out of nowhere, and where lots faster then full emulators. i dont know how far the similarities go between gamecube and wii, but i really hope close enough for someone to attempt this.

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Last edited by pipox; July 11th, 2007 at 05:19.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[shashClp]

Originally Posted by pipox

Please get your facts straight, and get yourself propper information before claiming radikal bikers is based on the psx while in fact Gaelco uses his own custom hardware.

Which is PSX level hardware...

Originally Posted by pipox

And i am also not comparing the wii to any of those systems...learn to read dip****..i am comparing the flow of progression and performance of standalone emus with those of their broader emulating brothers.

Learn how emulators are done, and why those two (Xbox and PSX, I repeat) were possible, so you stop insulting people (insulting emulator authors in this boards is not exactly something smart) and realize why they are so different that comparing (even if at performance and progression level, as you "say") them is stupid...

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[emwearz]

i never buy consoles..i dont like the limitations and the way you are forced to keep spending money on it to make it keep its value

Will keep that in mind when you post asking for help and I close your topic, to use any of the emulators here, you need to own the original consoles.

I don't claim to know everything about the Gamecube and the Wii, however by the fact that they are yet to create any bootable Wii homebrew, yet they have a large amount of Gamecube homebrew, that there is more to the console than what everyone says (More powerful GC with a new controller).

I will now hand it over to those who know what there talking about (Such as shashClp).

Also pipox you have recieved a infraction for insulting shash, theres no need for it.

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[Coolsvilleman]

People said that emulation of consoles was impossible until it happened. I remember reading about UltraHLE in the newspapers after it was first released. That was some cool stuff. As for the Wii. If emulator authors were given the entire internal hardware and software specifications I have no doubt they would be able to emulate it. Though as it stands now it would be extremely hard if not impossible to emulate the Wii without further information and better hardware.

P.S. I think this thread should come to a close soon.

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[@ruantec]

well Xbox emulation(that´s how´s called atm) is more a xbe to .exe converter and in my opinion is a different thing. i think if somebody start a "Xbox Emulator" it should be a emulator and not a converter(so to say). i think that´s the reason why Xbox emulation never got further.

in other hands psx emulator use pure emulation to emulate the hardware and that´s another thing.

about the Wii.... a wii emulator it´s very possible as the hardware of the Gamecube is already known and the Wii have some modifications but it´s still a Gamecube 1.2

i have some information about the Wii hardware, GPU, CPU etc.. and emulate Wii sports will not be a big challange... but the biggest one will be to sync the wiimote or any other controller to work with it. i think this will be the biggest challenge for us.

Greetz

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[pipox]

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

i have some information about the Wii hardware, GPU, CPU etc.. and emulate Wii sports will not be a big challange... but the biggest one will be to sync the wiimote or any other controller to work with it. i think this will be the biggest challenge for us.

Greetz

Wow..that is some nice, and unexpected news!!
as for the controller,
Wouldnt it be most probable that the games use the raw values of the wiimote meters?..or would the software to interpret them be in the wii itself?
if the game uses the raw values, then i think it should be possible to just patch the values through, as the pc is recieving those as well, it could be more a matter of emulating, or redirecting a bluetooth connection then emulating controls i think.

anyway, thumbs up

[shashClp]

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

about the Wii.... a wii emulator it´s very possible as the hardware of the Gamecube is already known and the Wii have some modifications but it´s still a Gamecube 1.2

Possible isn't fast, at all... With a PowerPC (different endianess) at 729mhz, and a GPU at 243mhz, is far from possible in the near future. If not, please provide some facts, as the Wii is more like a 2x Gamecube. Emulation is possible, but at several seconds per frame.

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

i have some information about the Wii hardware, GPU, CPU etc.. and emulate Wii sports will not be a big challange... but the biggest one will be to sync the wiimote or any other controller to work with it. i think this will be the biggest challenge for us.

In fact, emulating the Wiimote is easy (I've already worked with it on a PC, and it's easy to use it), VERY easy. The hard part is doing it fast: we all know specific information about the Wii hardware, and if you start counting the required power, you'll see how feasible it is...

Else, please provide some facts, because your afirmations seem far from realistic. Like that you know that Wiisports really keeps the cpu 95% of the time idle, or something alike, but with real data, not speculation.

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[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by shashClp

Possible isn't fast, at all... With a PowerPC (different endianess) at 729mhz, and a GPU at 243mhz, is far from possible in the near future. If not, please provide some facts, as the Wii is more like a 2x Gamecube. Emulation is possible, but at several seconds per frame.



In fact, emulating the Wiimote is easy (I've already worked with it on a PC, and it's easy to use it), VERY easy. The hard part is doing it fast: we all know specific information about the Wii hardware, and if you start counting the required power, you'll see how feasible it is...

Else, please provide some facts, because your afirmations seem far from realistic. Like that you know that Wiisports really keeps the cpu 95% of the time idle, or something alike, but with real data, not speculation.

don´t get me wrong but it seems like you missunderstood me a bit there.... i say "is prossible" but i didn´t say how acurate it will/could be.

about wii sports.... am investigating more deep into this.. but am pretty shure wii sports doesn´t make heavy use of the hardware at all.

about the wiimote... when i talked about it... i don´t mean it would be hard to emulate/use etc... as i sayd ("Sync the wiimote") with the speed we can get with an emulator.

about the information....
Nintendo, for its part.. refused to release any Wii technical specifications so as i sayd "i have some" infos about it.. atm not much.

what am trying at the moment is investigating and trying to understand how the wii works...

The Wii's GPU has fixed functions for vertex, lighting, and pixel operations and is an older fixed function design where you have lots of operations but the pipelines are not programmable were newer GPU´s from ATI or NVIDIA are.

in fact the GPU is basically a Gamecube 1.5 and it can be compared to an old Geforce GPU with some extra memory attached.

that´s probably why we´ll see some graphical improvements in the future by increasing memory clock speed, from 162 megahertz to 243 megahertz and the extra memory size give more room for graphical operations such as anti-aliasing, motion blur and so on...

there´s also an increasement int fixed-function TEV Gamecube own just 8 and the Wii 16... another interesting thing are the shaders that PC,PS3 and Xbox can reproduce.. allmost all of them can be reproduced on the Wii by re-implementing them with the fixed function hardware of the Wii's GPU.

so now we can see the little console have some power(of course the 360 and the PS3 are far more faster)... am investigating by my own on how to get more infos etc...

but now to your question of speed.... you´re probably right atm it´s not possible/easy to create a emulator of the wii... first because of the lack of information and second because of some speeds problems...

but(now comes ) current wii games(wii sports?) or first generation games aren´t using the full power of the console to my knowledge(if am not wrong) they´re are Gamecube games on wii format(so to say) so maybe there´s a small possibility to get some results.

btw i do not post any speculation if am not shure about them... but probably am wrong who knows.... that´s the way i am.

i have my own theory when am researching...

"impossible is just impossible because you think it is or because you give up"

Greetz

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Last edited by @ruantec; July 17th, 2007 at 22:34..

[shashClp]

I just wanted to note, that without proper data (like seeing it use bios sleep continously or something alike) there's no way to know if it's really feasible. Speculating about that in a coders forum would be ok, but speculating about that on a forum were people read that, and instantly think it's feasible on a 386 (which happens quite a lot here), it's completely different. That's why I wanted to note that avoiding throwing random ideas/theories is a good idea, at least here, imho.

I never meant to be despective about your theories, just about the possible consequences of them.

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[@ruantec]

Originally Posted by shashClp

I just wanted to note, that without proper data (like seeing it use bios sleep continously or something alike) there's no way to know if it's really feasible. Speculating about that in a coders forum would be ok, but speculating about that on a forum were people read that, and instantly think it's feasible on a 386 (which happens quite a lot here), it's completely different. That's why I wanted to note that avoiding throwing random ideas/theories is a good idea, at least here, imho.

I never meant to be despective about your theories, just about the possible consequences of them.

ok i think i got your point but a 386??? well that was a good one!!
actually this aren´t speculations...more than that this are conclutions i got so far.

anyways hardware has changed and now with those cheap Q6600 intel CPU´s alot of doors are opened... who knows.

and i agree with you... some people can get wrong informations or hope by reading those things....

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Last edited by @ruantec; July 17th, 2007 at 23:08..

[shashClp]

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

actually this aren´t speculations...more than that this are conclutions i got so far.

Could you please be a bit more specific? That's why I'm saying you're speculating, because you're not throwing any real data :P

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

anyways hardware has changed and now with those cheap Q6600 intel CPU´s alot of doors are opened... who knows.

That won't help at all with CPU emulation, which is the major problem: as you know, CPU emulation can't be splitted across several cores, thus still having to emulate that PowerPC at 729mhz, which is quite a feat...

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[pipox]

N64 ran at 93.75 Mhz and was emulatable at pc's with double this speed (with good voodoo), so what changed, that this ratio is no longer achievable? I guess its the amount of features the cpu has, but if the goal is to emulate only one game, and a technical relative simple game for that matter, then wouldnt this mean that only a small amount of these features need to be emulated?

[shashClp]

The N64 CPU had the same endianess than PCs, the RDP was HLE emulated, the ammount of information about the N64 was massive compared to the Wii, and last but not least, the N64 RDP ran way slower than the Wii one :P

And please, stop speculating about wether a certain game uses less resources until you've some real data, else it's nonsense that leads nowhere. Wiisports, for all we know, could be using 100% the CPU, and 50% of the GPU, thus being impossible to emulate on current hardware.

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[@ruantec]

ok let´s stop this discussion here because we will go nowhere...... as i sayd am researching and i get things by my own since Nintendo refuses to give some information about the hardware...

the conclutions i got so far i posted in my post #11... search or look info´s about the wii capabilities(if you find any) and am pretty shure you will see am right.

about the CPU emulation i know what you mean... i didn´t talked about splitting the CPU emulation in all four cores or something like that... i was talking about the power of newer CPU´s and there capabilities.

the Wii is a more powerfull Gamecube... at the moment developer are using the Gamecube SDK 1.2(i think that´s the version) to create there games so as i sayd in my previous post Wii games are actually Gamecube games in Wii format and that´s why i doubt first generation games are using the full power of the console since developers concentrate on the changes like the Wiimote etc and not in the hardware at all.

games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid prime corruption etc make more use of the hardware...

wait let´s take this into a more logical example.... what about Zelda TP on the Wii???
this game looks amazing on both consoles... but the question is... if the Gamecube is able to run this game using the full power of the console... how will the Wii do beeing more powerfull?

about the hardware usage... i can´t show you anything untill i get proper information about that..
one thing i know for shure by making use of the TEV you will have a heavy use of the GPU aswell as the CPU and you can slowdown the Wii pretty fast.

don´t get me wrong but we will go nowhere here.... so is just a waste of time.. i´ll try to get as far as i can and then i´ll show what i got.... so is just a matter of time.

Greetz

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Last edited by @ruantec; July 18th, 2007 at 17:11..

[shashClp]

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

ok let´s stop this discution here because we will go nowhere...... as i sayd am researching and i get things by my own since Nintendo refuses to give some information about the hardware...

That's normal and ALWAYS happens on every console :P

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

the conclutions i got so far i posted in my post #11... search or look info´s about the wii capabilities(if you find any) and am pretty shure you will see am right.

You're pretty right about it's capabilities, but nothing I couldn't find here, and extrapolating data from the old Gamecube GPU.

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

about the CPU emulation i know what you mean... i didn´t talked about splitting the CPU emulation in all four cores or something like that... i was talking about the power of newer CPU´s and there capabilities.

Well, new cpus struggle to emulate the Gamecube CPU at 485mhz, we'll see how well they handle the 729mhz Wii CPU (and all the stuff that can't be threaded for reasons that would enlarge this post too much).

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

the Wii is a more powerfull Gamecube... at the moment developer are using the Gamecube SDK 1.2(i think that´s the version) to create there games so as i sayd in my previous post Wii games are actually Gamecube games in Wii format and that´s why i doubt first generation games are using the full power of the console since developers concentrate on the changes like the Wiimote etc and not in the hardware at all.

games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid prime corruption etc make more use of the hardware...

They won't be using the GPU at it's full use, but the CPU (that's the usual on first generation games). When developers get to know GPU's at it's fullest, they use it better. CPU's are easier to use at it's full, due to compiler usage. So that leaves us with the same problem, high CPU usage...

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

wait let´s take this into a more logical example.... what about Zelda TP on the Wii???
this game looks amazing on both consoles... but the question is... if the Gamecube is able to run this game using the full power of the console... how will the Wii do beeing more powerfull?

But Wiisports (and that's what we're discussing here) isn't a Gamecube game, wasn't done for the Gamecube in mind, and probably is way worst programmed. That's like comparing apples and oranges... We both know that only by watching how a game looks, you can't know how it uses the system resources, more on console platforms, were the hardware is fixed along it's lifespan.

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

about the hardware usage... i can´t show you anything untill i get proper information about that..
one thing i know for shure by making use of the TEV you will have a heavy use of the GPU aswell as the CPU and you can slowdown the Wii pretty fast.

You mean emulating them, or how they operate on hardware ?

Originally Posted by @ruantec-Man

don´t get me wrong but we will go nowhere here.... so is just a waste of time.. i´ll try to get as far as i can and then i´ll show what i got.... so is just a matter of time.

Greetz

I'll wait to be proved wrong. That's how emulation works, sometimes... But from the techincal specs, isn't something that seems feasible on current generation hardware...

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[@ruantec]

yup you´re right looking at the technical specs is looking really hard and almost impossible and i agree with you in that point...but anyways someone has to try in order to get some results one day.

"We both know that only by watching how a game looks, you can't know how it uses the system resources, more on console platforms, were the hardware is fixed along it's lifespan"

yes is true... what am trying to show you is that actual games aren´t really Wii games at all(so to say).... maybe i write things in the wrong way so you don´t understand what i mean.... wait i have an example...

imaging you have a directX 10 capable machine... so you want to create a DX10 game but you´re using directX 8 or probably 9 SDK! got me now? the problem right now is nintendo delivered to developers a Gamecube SDK 1.2 with some small modifications... so the same gamecube libraries are included etc.... but i believe ninty will have to change that... or maybe is another strategy..

hope you understand me now

Greetz

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[shashClp]

That doesn't cover the CPU requirements part, maybe the GPU ones, but not the CPU...

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