Xbox 360 emulation possibililty - Page 2

shafeen · January 14th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

I have the feeling that no one listens to a damn thing I have to say...

lol i have a bad habit of just reading the opening post and replying to the thread ...didn't see yours post

was a nice read tho

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**blueshogun96** · January 15th, 2009

Sorry if I sounded kind of harsh. I've posted in many threads relating to emulating the 360 (in multiple forums), and yet everyone in the thread continues to ignore obvious points they continuously miss (especially if it's already been stated). Personally I just don't like it when the only responses are just "wait 5-10 years", or "you're a n00b for asking! gtfo" and stuff like that (not that this thread contained only that) because that doesn't explain anything.

At least it's possible to create a cycle accurate 360 emulator (unlike Xbox1 with interpreters and recompilers). Each core runs 2 threads and executes 1 instruction per thread, but that's still almost 3.2 billion instructions to emulate before a single VBLANK can be generated!

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Squall-Leonhart · January 15th, 2009

omg, be more sensitive....... wtf am i saying, carry on Blue xD.

I think this topic has run its course though.

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DarkSamus · January 16th, 2009

Some interesting insights there blueshogun96

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theartofbone · August 4th, 2009

You also have to realize that who will code such a thing? Emulator programers do NOT get paid to do such complex and time consuming tasks. They do it for fun, to learn, for the challange and for countless other reasons. Of all the reasons, no one funds them. I'm sure Microsoft themselves are not going to paypal the guy $5,000 for his efforts, or any amount for that matter.

Even if we did have enough PC power to emulate the machine, who'll do it? When it's done people will complain and say it wasn't good enough. That is the main problem. The original poster is probably young and has the drive for such a feat to get done but there is one problem. Most likely, he can not program or understand the nature of such a task! To fully understand something (without creating that something), and then try and emulate it? Let alone tell the computer to do what you are thinking while doing so in such a general way in sakes of compatibility amongst the different computer configurations?

Give me a break.

I think game boy emulators are cool, as well as NES, even SNES. There comes a point where wishing for PS3 and XBOX 360 emu's is really out of this world atm. Just buy a system. Or better yet, don't buy it. You're alive and well without one so far. What's the big deal?

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Dadaluma83 · August 4th, 2009

There is an old saying with computers. If you can't do a certain task or don't have hardware requirements to do something, just wait.

Processor speed and computer hardware is always getting faster and better. I mean in the old days of 200 Mhz Pentiums who would have ever thought we could see speeds of over 3 Ghz? What about in the days when computers came with a 256MB hard drive who would have ever thought one day we could store way more than that on a USB drive? Or a small iPod for that matter.

So one day hardware will exist to be strong enough to emulate the PS3 and 360 at fully playable speeds. Although sometimes I wonder what is the limit? Like is it possible to ever reach the fastest processor possible? Or the most powerful graphics card possible? What is the limit?

But the biggest obstacle to 360 or PS3 emulation is not hardware limitations, it is coding and manpower. An emulator for either of those systems would be a monumental coding task. Each console generation gets significantly more advanced. Early consoles like Atari, NES, and SNES were fairly simple to get working as evidence that all those have several good emulators for them. They were basically plug and play. You put a cartridge in, and play the game. Nothing extra.

It is essentially the same concept up to the PS2. Just put a game in, and play.

But the 360 and PS3 are almost like their own computer system with each having many other functions such as multimedia, online play, downloads, hard drives and storage, etc.

Definitely a monumental coding task but if it were to ever happen it would be the second biggest thing all over the internets, after the Final Fantasy 7 remake which would have probably happened by then.

**blueshogun96** · August 5th, 2009

Quote:

When it's done people will complain and say it wasn't good enough.

That's likely to happen no matter what. Look at PCSX2. It's the most advanced PS2 emulator out there, any yet noobs still complain about speeds and compatibility. It's best to ignore those who post such ignorance (even if it is 85% of the scene) and appreciate the 15% that care and appreciate.

TBH, I know I'm not the greatest emu author here (in fact, I'm probably the worst emu author!), but I still think it's possible to pull this off (with two Intel i7 cores and a fully Direct3D 11 compatible video card). My greatest successes with emulation came from stupid ideas! Remember my old PS2 GS plugin GSrex Direct3D7? It worked, and it was fast too! Oh, and remember Smashing Drive? I did some really dirty and downright retarted hacks to get that game working in Cxbx. Xenoborg? Yeah, I did that because I was bored and didn't plan on getting anywhere with it, but hey, it's still worked... like s@#%, but it worked! Using the methods I described earlier and if I had that $8,000 uber PC of my dreams (and some spare time on my hands), I'd try it! Sorry for the crazy rant, I guess I'm not myself lately

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Last edited by blueshogun96; August 5th, 2009 at 03:23..

Squall-Leonhart · August 5th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by theartofbone

you also have to realize that who will code such a thing? Emulator programers do not get paid to do such complex and time consuming tasks. They do it for fun, to learn, for the challange and for countless other reasons. Of all the reasons, no one funds them. I'm sure microsoft themselves are not going to paypal the guy $5,000 for his efforts, or any amount for that matter.

Even if we did have enough pc power to emulate the machine, who'll do it? When it's done people will complain and say it wasn't good enough. That is the main problem. The original poster is probably young and has the drive for such a feat to get done but there is one problem. Most likely, he can not program or understand the nature of such a task! To fully understand something (without creating that something), and then try and emulate it? Let alone tell the computer to do what you are thinking while doing so in such a general way in sakes of compatibility amongst the different computer configurations?

Give me a break.

I think game boy emulators are cool, as well as nes, even snes. There comes a point where wishing for ps3 and xbox 360 emu's is really out of this world atm. Just buy a system. Or better yet, don't buy it. You're alive and well without one so far. What's the big deal?

omfg!!!!!! Zombie

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**Cid Highwind** · August 5th, 2009

/me throws pills to Squall

Someone posts a link in one thread and the other is bound to be revived. Man I should really get back to writing some content for the webpage, just to spell out some basics about emulation for beginners

Core points:
- Emulation means trying to run software on hardware it was not developed for
- Emulation requires a huge overhead (example: PS2 needs a 4GHz Core 2 Duo while it's "just" a 300MHz processor)
- Emulation becomes exponentially more complicated through the generations, so don't expect your PS3 or Xbox 360 consoles to be emulated anytime soon

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Last edited by Cid Highwind; August 6th, 2009 at 09:57..

zodac_spear · August 5th, 2009

what i don't understand is why did the OP not mention 360's puny RAM?

edit: never mind he did

gamefreak94 · August 5th, 2009

Even if he didn't, its irrelevant to the argument.

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**blueshogun96** · August 6th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

(example: PS2 needs a 4GHz Core 2 Duo while it's "just" a 333MHz processor)

Small correction. The PS2 has a ~300MHz processor (IIRC), and the reason for the slow speeds is due to the vector units emulation. So it's almost like emulating a triple core machine. My notebook PC runs PCSX2 just fine (see specs below). Runs Devil May Cry and a handful of others at a rock solid 60fps. No one believed it would do the job, but it does. I have yet to reinstall it and try it again after HP serviced it, but so far it runs better than ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zodac_spear

what i don't understand is why did the OP not mention 360's puny RAM?

edit: never mind he did

Trust me on this, RAM is like a penis (as far as consoles are concerned). Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it that counts... literally. Consoles don't need as much RAM as PCs because they generally run only one process (the game and sometimes the dashboard/OS, making it two).

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Last edited by blueshogun96; August 6th, 2009 at 05:20.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

Squall-Leonhart · August 6th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

Small correction. The PS2 has a ~300MHz processor (IIRC), and the reason for the slow speeds is due to the vector units emulation. So it's almost like emulating a triple core machine. My notebook PC runs PCSX2 just fine (see specs below). Runs Devil May Cry and a handful of others at a rock solid 60fps. No one believed it would do the job, but it does. I have yet to reinstall it and try it again after HP serviced it, but so far it runs better than ever.

Trust me on this, RAM is like a penis (as far as consoles are concerned). Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it that counts... literally. Consoles don't need as much RAM as PCs because they generally run only one process (the game and sometimes the dashboard/OS, making it two).

indeed, the different hardwares also operate, and and have differing OPC to typical computers, so more, or less raw mhz is required depending on the cpu's OPC x mhz

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Ordlad · August 9th, 2009

It will be available after Xbox720 is released.

**@ruantec** · August 11th, 2009

Probably not exactly what he wants to hear as i agree with blueshogun96 in all he said.. but emulating the 360 is just far away for now because there´s no documentation nor the required hardware to get even closer to a descent emulation.

but now talking about high hardware requirements for emulation.. it reminds me an article i saw from a university professor were he showed a new method of emulation that makes possible to emulate stuff without the need of an immensive power as its done today... he didn´t explained things detailed but he indeed found a way to overcome the code redundancy and create a very accurate way... i still wonder how but the article was real and for sure not just another bu***** from the internet... i´ll try to find the article if i can as it could change the way we go by emulating hardware. eventhough i still wonder how the hell this guy got that if is real.

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Last edited by @ruantec; August 12th, 2009 at 07:16..

August 4th, 2009	#25 (permalink)
theartofbone Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 55	Lets not forget one thing -- Who will do this? You also have to realize that who will code such a thing? Emulator programers do NOT get paid to do such complex and time consuming tasks. They do it for fun, to learn, for the challange and for countless other reasons. Of all the reasons, no one funds them. I'm sure Microsoft themselves are not going to paypal the guy $5,000 for his efforts, or any amount for that matter. Even if we did have enough PC power to emulate the machine, who'll do it? When it's done people will complain and say it wasn't good enough. That is the main problem. The original poster is probably young and has the drive for such a feat to get done but there is one problem. Most likely, he can not program or understand the nature of such a task! To fully understand something (without creating that something), and then try and emulate it? Let alone tell the computer to do what you are thinking while doing so in such a general way in sakes of compatibility amongst the different computer configurations? Give me a break. I think game boy emulators are cool, as well as NES, even SNES. There comes a point where wishing for PS3 and XBOX 360 emu's is really out of this world atm. Just buy a system. Or better yet, don't buy it. You're alive and well without one so far. What's the big deal? __________________ The Bible's worth is in it's editor.

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January 15th, 2009	#22 (permalink)
blueshogun96 Emu author Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Unidentified Posts: 2,503	Sorry if I sounded kind of harsh. I've posted in many threads relating to emulating the 360 (in multiple forums), and yet everyone in the thread continues to ignore obvious points they continuously miss (especially if it's already been stated). Personally I just don't like it when the only responses are just "wait 5-10 years", or "you're a n00b for asking! gtfo" and stuff like that (not that this thread contained only that) because that doesn't explain anything. At least it's possible to create a cycle accurate 360 emulator (unlike Xbox1 with interpreters and recompilers). Each core runs 2 threads and executes 1 instruction per thread, but that's still almost 3.2 billion instructions to emulate before a single VBLANK can be generated! __________________ [Sagat] Windows XP x64 Pro \| AMD Athlon 3000+ (~2.0GHz) \| NVIDIA GeForce 6600 PCI-E \| Realtek AC97 Audio \| 512MB Ram \| NVIDIA NForce 4-4X chipset \| Seagate HDD 160GB \| LG 8614 DVD-ROM \| HP DVD 1040d CD/DVD -/+ RW w/ LightScribe [Raylene] HP dv2000 \| Windows Vista Home Premium \| Intel Core2 Duo @2.2GHz \| NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS 128Mb (Dedicated) + 1264Mb (Shared) \| 3GB Ram \| 220GB HDD GeneralEmu - December 27, 2005 and beyond! Shogun3D Interactive (I try to update it every day now) Shogun's Cxbx Dev Blog

January 15th, 2009	#23 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,822	omg, be more sensitive....... wtf am i saying, carry on Blue xD. I think this topic has run its course though. __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

August 4th, 2009	#26 (permalink)
Dadaluma83 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: United States Posts: 72	There is an old saying with computers. If you can't do a certain task or don't have hardware requirements to do something, just wait. Processor speed and computer hardware is always getting faster and better. I mean in the old days of 200 Mhz Pentiums who would have ever thought we could see speeds of over 3 Ghz? What about in the days when computers came with a 256MB hard drive who would have ever thought one day we could store way more than that on a USB drive? Or a small iPod for that matter. So one day hardware will exist to be strong enough to emulate the PS3 and 360 at fully playable speeds. Although sometimes I wonder what is the limit? Like is it possible to ever reach the fastest processor possible? Or the most powerful graphics card possible? What is the limit? But the biggest obstacle to 360 or PS3 emulation is not hardware limitations, it is coding and manpower. An emulator for either of those systems would be a monumental coding task. Each console generation gets significantly more advanced. Early consoles like Atari, NES, and SNES were fairly simple to get working as evidence that all those have several good emulators for them. They were basically plug and play. You put a cartridge in, and play the game. Nothing extra. It is essentially the same concept up to the PS2. Just put a game in, and play. But the 360 and PS3 are almost like their own computer system with each having many other functions such as multimedia, online play, downloads, hard drives and storage, etc. Definitely a monumental coding task but if it were to ever happen it would be the second biggest thing all over the internets, after the Final Fantasy 7 remake which would have probably happened by then.

August 5th, 2009	#29 (permalink)
Cid Highwind Human Metal Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Holland / Hungary Posts: 13,538	/me throws pills to Squall Someone posts a link in one thread and the other is bound to be revived. Man I should really get back to writing some content for the webpage, just to spell out some basics about emulation for beginners Core points: - Emulation means trying to run software on hardware it was not developed for - Emulation requires a huge overhead (example: PS2 needs a 4GHz Core 2 Duo while it's "just" a 300MHz processor) - Emulation becomes exponentially more complicated through the generations, so don't expect your PS3 or Xbox 360 consoles to be emulated anytime soon __________________ PC Specs: CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000 Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1) SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 19201200 Geometry Wars: 198.400 Lumines: 999.999 Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!* Last edited by Cid Highwind; August 6th, 2009 at 09:57..

August 5th, 2009	#30 (permalink)
zodac_spear Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: australia Posts: 36	what i don't understand is why did the OP not mention 360's puny RAM? edit: never mind he did

August 5th, 2009	#31 (permalink)
gamefreak94 Die anime!! Die!! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: پاكستان <--- Urdu Posts: 6,256	Even if he didn't, its irrelevant to the argument. __________________ How to configure uTorrent for maximum upload and download speed?

August 9th, 2009	#34 (permalink)
Ordlad Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 6	It will be available after Xbox720 is released.

August 11th, 2009	#35 (permalink)
@ruantec Emu author Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Austria (originally from Dominican Republic) Posts: 2,377	Probably not exactly what he wants to hear as i agree with blueshogun96 in all he said.. but emulating the 360 is just far away for now because there´s no documentation nor the required hardware to get even closer to a descent emulation. but now talking about high hardware requirements for emulation.. it reminds me an article i saw from a university professor were he showed a new method of emulation that makes possible to emulate stuff without the need of an immensive power as its done today... he didn´t explained things detailed but he indeed found a way to overcome the code redundancy and create a very accurate way... i still wonder how but the article was real and for sure not just another bu*** from the internet... i´ll try to find the article if i can as it could change the way we go by emulating hardware. eventhough i still wonder how the hell this guy got that if is real. __________________ Current development tools:** Visual C++.net, Visual C#.net Visual VB.net, Visual Webdeveloper.net Bloodshed Dev C++, Borland C++ Visual Basic 6 Last edited by @ruantec; August 12th, 2009 at 07:16..