recommended an X2 over a Phenom

[MrPink]

a friend is building a new comp and sent me a list of the parts he was using. included was the 2.2ghz Phenom chip, which i told him to replace with an X2 for now until the Phenom series has had time to mature. also i have read reviews saying the Phenom underperformed compared to higher clocked dual cores. so my question is now this, should i tell him to get the best dual core AMD possible and not buy a Phenom for a year or two, or to get a low or midrange dualcore (i recommended the 4800+ for now) and get a higher end Phenom when they are eventually released this year?

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[Linktothepast]

Athlon 6400 x2 has better performance than phenom at gaming when all 4 cores are not utilized (most cases) . So if he is a gamer and wants to buy an Amd processor, at this point 6400 x2 is better than any phenom at gaming.

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[MrPink]

yeah, but i ended recommending a more expensive motherboard, so as part of the compromise i was going to recommend an appropriately cheaper processor to make up for the more expensive mobo. but yes, i am extremely jealous of anyone with an AM2 platform (i have 939) cause the 6400 black edition seems to me the only venerable competition to intels core 2 duo overclocking monsters.

hmmm... maybe i'll force him to go with 6400, and its so cheap right now!!

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[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Linktothepast

Athlon 6400 x2 has better performance than phenom at gaming when all 4 cores are not utilized (most cases) . So if he is a gamer and wants to buy an Amd processor, at this point 6400 x2 is better than any phenom at gaming.

don't you mean 3 cores???

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AMD Athlon64 X2 4400+ @ 2.68GHz, Radeon HD4850 512MB, 2GB PC3200 2-3-2-5, ABit AN8-SLi, Sound Blaster X-FI XtremeMusic

[StriderVM]

Actually, the best AMD Dual Core right now is the 5000 Black Edition. It's because the unlocked multipliers will actually be useful. And you will be able to achieve +6400 (About 3.2Ghz) speeds on that processor.

Sadly though, to be able to dictate the multiplier, you NEED a decent motherboard. Budget motherboard do not have the multiplier settings in the BIOS.

I'd also suggest you get an AM2+ motherboard for 100% Phenom compability, because most older AM2 motherboard manufacturers usually will NOT make a BIOS update for Phenom compability (They want you to buy their newer motherboards , duh.)

Kirby : I don't get it...... O_o

Back to Phenom :

Well, according to some benchmarks I saw, the Phenom actually has better performance per clock ratio compared to the AthlonX2, even on single core processing, the main problem though, is that the AthlonX2's are running on much higher clock speeds than the current Phenoms available. Not to mention Phenom's are slightly harder to overclock.

AMD Phenom vs. Athlon Core Shootout | Tom's Hardware

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[fried_egg]

hes talking about the three core phenoms theyre going to be kicking out eventually to take advantage of their crappy chips which have a defective core.

[StriderVM]

fried_egg :

I realized what Kirby said and actually you're wrong. No offence.

When games don't support multiple cores, they are still using 1 core, hence like Kirby said : You mean 3 cores. Because one of the cores is still being used.

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[runawayprisoner]

I'll say go with Phenom. Utilized or not, you have up to 3 cores for future uses... plus from what I've read, you'd need a more expensive setup to take advantage of AMD top dual-core stuffs... (oh bummer!) sincerely, I'd even recommend him switching to Intel to avoid the hassles.

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[MrPink]

yeah, but i like the little guy
and i've read that intel quads are not really quads, just two dualcores on a single die

Phenoms i read are the real deal, a true quad core processor. i don't know what this means performance wise, but it sounds more honest than "its like, you know, having 2 core 2 duos instead of one!"

plus, AMD is actually starting to catch up in terms of the GHz race. the new X2s that are similar price to some core 2 duos, actually match the clock speed or exceed it, like the 6400+ black edition at 3.2GHz

i also have a personal interest in AMD, since my 4400+ has handled everything from ut2k4 to ut3, from quake 4 to crysis, its just a very versatile proc when you look at its low clock speed (2.2GHz, i have socket 939), and i expect all other AMD products are just as rugged.

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[SCHUMI_4EVER]

You have to remember that C2D's came out like a year after X2's....so Intel had plenty of time to observe and improve on everything AMD had done....it's actually hardly impressive and shows very little personal innovation.

If I could get any processor I wanted right now, then I would got for that 6400+ Black edition, sure a C2D maybe be better for newer games or an Intel quadcore, but for older games nothing will be able to touch it.

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[MrPink]

mmmm... the core 2 extreme x6800 is 2.93ghz @ $975 on newegg
in this corner the X2 6400+ @ 3.2ghz weighs in at $160, also newegg



please dont call me an AMD fanboy or anything, i just love that they can offer competition to intel. the 6400+ is a valid competitor to one of their top of the line procs, for about a sixth of the price. if there is some advantage that intel has in their lower manufacturing process for this comparison (65nm v 90nm) then please explain how that justifies a 6x increase in price.

of course this also all on paper, i know that actual performance is another thing.
but i just cant get help get excited about a dual core 3.2ghz for under $200.

makes me want to upgrade my platform to AM2/AM2+ now, and put off a car for later

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[Master Chief]

Originally Posted by MrPink

yeah, but i like the little guy
and i've read that intel quads are not really quads, just two dualcores on a single die

Phenoms i read are the real deal, a true quad core processor. i don't know what this means performance wise, but it sounds more honest than "its like, you know, having 2 core 2 duos instead of one!"

People say this quite often. But the truth is, a quad core is a quad core. 1+1+1+1=4, and so does 2+2. Besides, the C2Q performs somewhat better than Phenom and overclocks much better. I would have loved to use a Phenom in my new machine but I wasn't going to settle for less.

Performance wise I really don't think there's any difference (again, the C2Q is somewhat better than Phenom). AMD just used the "true quad core" slogan as a marketing tactic.

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[MrPink]

good point, and i admit i have had no personal experience with a quad core.
or a modern intel chip (the last intel i owned was in a dell about 5 years ago, a pentium 4 2ghz woohoo!)

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[Linktothepast]

Intel cpu's are a better choice right now. You can even get a cheap core 2 duo processor (preferably penryn), overclock it to the maximum and have a way better processor than any dual core chip Amd has or will put to the market in the near future. Clock to clock a core 2 duo is at least 10% faster (can get a lot higher) than a phenom chip. If you consider also that a core 2 duo (penryn) chip can easily overclock to 3,5 Ghz, you will have to wait at least a year to see a phenom overclocked at 4 ghz, and just to be even .

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[Kaizen]

Originally Posted by MrPink

yeah, but i ended recommending a more expensive motherboard, so as part of the compromise i was going to recommend an appropriately cheaper processor to make up for the more expensive mobo. but yes, i am extremely jealous of anyone with an AM2 platform (i have 939) cause the 6400 black edition seems to me the only venerable competition to intels core 2 duo overclocking monsters.

hmmm... maybe i'll force him to go with 6400, and its so cheap right now!!

if that's the case (ie; getting a new motherboard)
then he should go intel, no reason to go amd at the moment when even the pentium core 2 models can overclock to 3ghz at least

[MrPink]

he wants AMD
i would like to convince him to go intel, but as many people as possible need to buy AMD so that their market cap increases and can dominate intel in the future

idk, no matter what i read, no matter what statistics people throw at me, i just don't see any viable performance advantage that intel may have. sure, they might have the fastests most overclockable procs, but dollar for dollar, the AMD models compete pretty well with similarly priced intels.

i guess when push comes to shove and it comes time for me to upgrade my platform, i'll probably go LGA 775. because i am too late for AM2, AM2+ will only be out for a year or so i read (before AM3 comes out). meanwhile, i haven't heard that intel will be upgrading their platform any time soon. then i'll be able to joing the crowd with my very own core 2 duo...

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[Kaizen]

Originally Posted by MrPink

he wants AMD
i would like to convince him to go intel, but as many people as possible need to buy AMD so that their market cap increases and can dominate intel in the future

idk, no matter what i read, no matter what statistics people throw at me, i just don't see any viable performance advantage that intel may have. sure, they might have the fastests most overclockable procs, but dollar for dollar, the AMD models compete pretty well with similarly priced intels.

i guess when push comes to shove and it comes time for me to upgrade my platform, i'll probably go LGA 775. because i am too late for AM2, AM2+ will only be out for a year or so i read (before AM3 comes out). meanwhile, i haven't heard that intel will be upgrading their platform any time soon. then i'll be able to joing the crowd with my very own core 2 duo...

I'm no fanboy, I like the fastest cheapest parts
and intel makes them just now

Although at stock speeds amd compete price-wise
overclock kills them like fish in a barrel

the cheapest of the cheap core 2 duo can overclock to 3.5Ghz
(as proved on tomshardware)

no dual core amd at any price can best an overclocked pentium
the only moot point AMD have is energy efficiency

.....but that's only until wolfdale and yorkfield
the extreme yorkfield can idle at 3 watts

tell your friend to try and not be biased and get cheap overclocked c2d or wolfdale model if possible

I again have to state that I am not biased or a fanboy,
just amd is getting schooled just now in the cpu front

Edit, to clarify I mean the exxxx pentium series before some guy tries to "rofl pentium....lolz noob" me

[DaStinger77]

I agree he should switch over to intel at this point in time. Im an AMD fanboy, my 3200+ is a beast compared to its intel counterparts, crysis and cod4 work great. But in the current market Intel's chips have the edge at the moment. Very possible the coin could flop sides again at any time as every company makes good and not so good products.

I've just started ordering parts for my new rig and it pains me to buy an intel product, but as someone that can only do a full overhaul every 5ish years intel is just the way better option to get my moneys worth.

Just my two cents on that, if AMD is the choice though I would recommend what you stated about getting a good mid-high x2 series chip and then moving on to the phenom(sp?) once they get a couple generations of chips in.

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[StriderVM]

Mr Pink :

I am still supporting AMD in this times of turmoil. Did you know that AMD's stock is near to $10+ on early 2006 and now it's lingering on the $5 range? It's just how bad it is in AMD's camp. When they bought ATI, ATI's stock is on the $5 range as well. Now, even with both companies are now in $5.

Of course before it was ok, AMD survived even on the 5x86 and the K6 days. But since their acquisition of ATI on the near exact time the Core architecture was announced......

But currently, Intel's offerings will drive AMD to bankrupcy if this continues.

AMD's processors are priced so low because it's the only way to be competitive.

Would you believe that you would need an AthlonX2 running at 3.8Ghz to reach the same performance level of a Core2Duo running at 3.0Ghz? The situation was reversed about 2 yeas ago.....

Even on such bad times, I still support AMD. Thats why I'm planning to buy a Radeon 3850 when I have the money.

PS. Look at sims, when he first bought a Core2Duo, he wasn't impressed, but in less than 2 months, he's now an Intel supporter.... I think it's still found in their archives here somewhere....

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[Kaizen]

Originally Posted by StriderVM

Mr Pink :

I am still supporting AMD in this times of turmoil. Did you know that AMD's stock is near to $10+ on early 2006 and now it's lingering on the $5 range? It's just how bad it is in AMD's camp. When they bought ATI, ATI's stock is on the $5 range as well. Now, even with both companies are now in $5.

Of course before it was ok, AMD survived even on the 5x86 and the K6 days. But since their acquisition of ATI on the near exact time the Core architecture was announced......

But currently, Intel's offerings will drive AMD to bankrupcy if this continues.

AMD's processors are priced so low because it's the only way to be competitive.

Would you believe that you would need an AthlonX2 running at 3.8Ghz to reach the same performance level of a Core2Duo running at 3.0Ghz? The situation was reversed about 2 yeas ago.....

Even on such bad times, I still support AMD. Thats why I'm planning to buy a Radeon 3850 when I have the money.

PS. Look at sims, when he first bought a Core2Duo, he wasn't impressed, but in less than 2 months, he's now an Intel supporter.... I think it's still found in their archives here somewhere....

yeah, amd is sinking fast

but ATI is doing really well,
I own a 3850 and it's incredible for it's low price

The next few revisions of Phenom apparently will improve some current errors and provide more stable overclocks

I hope they really do it
..but intels current parts overclock so well it's almost unbelievable
wolfdale excites me

you're right to recomend a low x2 and then a mid lifetime phenom
it's always good to have a well planned upgrade path
I'm going late generation Yorkfield with a 3870x2 next
I honestly believe I'll get 4.5-5Ghz from that chip