How good would this PC be in next-gen emulators?

[Agetian]

I'm planning to buying a new PC some time next year (definitely after NVIDIA 9xxx series is released, and possibly even after the prices for 9800 or maybe 9600GT drop a little). The approximate configuration I'd like to get is as follows:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 (4*2.66GHz)
at least 2GB RAM (fastest I can find)
NVIDIA GeForce 9xxx card (will try to go for the top-of-the-line, like 9800, but may resort to something like 9600GT (if such a card will be available) if I'm low on cash)

I'm wondering how good this configuration might be to emulate:

1) Sega Dreamcast with nullDC
2) Sony Playstation 2 with pcsx2

What do you think? Do you think it's (at least supposed to be) adequate enough to provide reasonable FPS in the above-mentioned emulators (games like Sonic Adventure 2 for DC, Final Fantasy X for PS2)

- Agetian

[KanedA]

Hi Agetian...

Why didn't you just read PCSX2 FAQ?

[jonc2006]

probably. i wouldnt expect skyrocketing framerates in every game but i imagine it would be able to break the 30 mark in some of them. i cant say for sure about the DC emulation part, i find it generally confusing in terms of setting up, so ive never really done it succesfully.

but as far as PS2 emulation goes, it would probably give decent performance. dont hold me to that though, i have never really gotten into serious ps2 emulation, due to my system obviously. but from everything ive read and heard about it, it sounds like that could get the job done. you will probably want to make sure you get hardware that overclocks well, just in case. one other thing, i dont know if you are looking into the 9xxx series for the sole reason of ps2 emulation or if you have other plans for the use of them but if ps2 is the only reason you want to get one, you should know that the current top of the line card by nvidida , the 8800 GTX ultras or whatever people call them these days, are good enough for ps2 emulation. so you dont really need to go higher than that.

[tuanming]

Actually, you don't really need anything higher than a 7900 gt or 1900 gt/xt series to get the game to running along with your cpu, that is if you don't intend to use anything over 4x AA and BF for ZeroGS graphic plug in. To me, those GPUs are basically the minimum hardwares that won't bottleneck your processor.

But you could also try Gabest plug in, GSdx9 and GSdx10 (DX10 GPUs) if you the best looking graphic without sacrificing any fps. Of course, that is if you have at least the 7900 or 1900 GPUs The best gpu for the money right now are the 8800 GT/GTS those should be more than enough to power pcsx2 emulator and hopefully, enough for 8xAA w/ BF turned on for ZeroGS without eat away your precious fps .

[Hiei-YYH]

i really don't understand these guys, with a powerful pc like that and can't buy a ps2? lol anyway, for dc i think is good enough, but for ps2? err... no, maybe a 4.0ghz quad core.

I don't play ps2 on my pc, but can someone tell me why pcxs2 is so CPU and videocard eater? i mean, come on, ps2 emulation really needs that amount of power to get playable speeds? >_> looks to nulldc (yeah, i know that they are both different systems, but is that much?)

Plugins that require pixel shader above 3.0 (video cards that cost x2/x3 the actual ps2 or more) when the real ps2 have compared with what? 1.0? or maybe even less (correct if I'm wrong).

I'm not bashing the pcsx2 here since i don't play it, it's just by comments that i read day by day.


let's the pros answer XD

[refraction]

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

i really don't understand these guys, with a powerful pc like that and can't buy a ps2? lol anyway, for dc i think is good enough, but for ps2? err... no, maybe a 4.0ghz quad core.

whos to say they havent got a PS2? im not ignorant to the fact there are people who download their bios and probably games, but we do stand by the legal side of it and some people at least, comply to this.

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

I don't play ps2 on my pc, but can someone tell me why pcxs2 is so CPU and videocard eater? i mean, come on, ps2 emulation really needs that amount of power to get playable speeds? >_> looks to nulldc (yeah, i know that they are both different systems, but is that much?)

Why is PCSX2 slow?

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

Plugins that require pixel shader above 3.0 (video cards that cost x2/x3 the actual ps2 or more) when the real ps2 have compared with what? 1.0? or maybe even less (correct if I'm wrong).

The PS2's graphical synthesizer is a specialized bit of kit, it isnt a standard set of components like a PC's, but pixel shader 2 and 3 are used as they have the closest effects. Also microsoft have removed any lower pixel shaders from the directx sdk. If you have anything older its about time you upgraded anyway.

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

I'm not bashing the pcsx2 here since i don't play it, it's just by comments that i read day by day.

let's the pros answer XD

good to hear.

[tuanming]

I believe most of us in here have a ps2 to begin with... What wrong with having a good pc to play ps2 game using an emulator to emulate it? 0.o Why is ps2 so damn demanding? There're many ways to explain it...the complicated or the easy way. First of all do you even know what's backward engineering? Do you know the difference between the Great White Shark and a fish? If you don't know the answers to those questions then I think I needed not go farther explain it to you...

[Agetian]

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

i really don't understand these guys, with a powerful pc like that and can't buy a ps2? lol anyway, for dc i think is good enough, but for ps2? err... no, maybe a 4.0ghz quad core.

LOL nah I'm not that crazy to buy a PC this powerful for the sole purpose of emulating PS2 :P

I actually do own a PS2, it's not in the best condition atm and may die sooner or later, but since the only game I'll prolly ever replay is FFX (and maybe FFXII, well and *maybe* the Tekkens) anyway, then I guess I'm better off just emulating PS2 than buying a new PS2 AND a new high-end PC soon. For that matter, I also got a Sega Mega Drive (dead though, fried), PS1 (still working), DC (still working), oh and a DS (also working), which was not my best buy though since I got it (and a few games for it) in Moscow only to find (later) that it's impossible to find any games for it where I live (except for ordering them thru the Internet), while there are tons of PSP games where I am (but I don't own a PSP, and I don't plan to get one) Right now I'm no longer that much of a console fan though, and I prefer to emulate the old and not-so-old classics on my PC... Don't quite feel like playing on multiple outdated systems when you can play it all on a PC with a marvel like emulation. Sorry, this was going a little offtopic, so I stop speaking about myself here.

I'm getting a new PC soon anyway since my old one is getting quite dated and all, so... I was just wondering if my new PC will be at least half-good to replay some of the old classics I might like to revise later just in case my PS2 and/or DC go bye-bye for one reason or another (you know, consoles die, and so do the PCs... That's life I guess; I'm happy that there are people who keep the old classics going by creating emulators).

Originally Posted by KanedA

Why didn't you just read PCSX2 FAQ?

As a matter of fact, I did. As you can see, I wasn't only wondering about PS2 emulation, but also DC emulation; in addition to that, I was looking forward to hearing the opinions of people who played using PCSX2 and NullDC on different high-end computers that can be compared to the system I'm about to build, and people who could share some experience with me. Please forgive me if I asked the wrong thing, I didn't intend to. Please feel free to close, remove, etc. if necessary. Being a moderator myself on another board I know how important it is to stay within the rules, and I was hoping that I'm not about to break a rule or something with my post (it seemed in line with the discussions related to the hardware and the emulation at the same time), but if I did something that I was not supposed to do, then of course feel free to take the necessary action per the board rules, I'll only appreciate this.

By the way, speaking of the way I'm gonna play, I can live with the lowest settings possible - like maybe 800x600 windowed mode (or the same fullscreen mode) with all AAs and AFs turned off, and only the necessary minimum of settings turned on in the plugins. As a matter of fact, it's not even as much playing the game itself as much as just revisiting the good old days - so, I don't really care too much if it's as beatiful as on the real PS2 and a TV set, or if it looks worse but still plays the same. So no, in this aspect I'm not one of those "60fps with 8xAA and 16xAF in 1600x1200 with filtering turned on et al." guys - of course I understand that even the lowest settings are very demanding for both PS2 and DC emulation (at least from what I've read and from what I get out of what you guys said), and that's why even just being able to play these games at the lowest settings with more-or-less decent framerate will be marvellous (I mean, 5-10fps is simply intolerable, but something like 30-50fps is much better; I'm not sure I can hope for 50 but it's good to know that I can expect to go at least a bit above 30 fps )

Originally Posted by jonc2006

i dont know if you are looking into the 9xxx series for the sole reason of ps2 emulation or if you have other plans for the use of them but if ps2 is the only reason you want to get one, you should know that the current top of the line card by nvidida , the 8800 GTX ultras or whatever people call them these days, are good enough for ps2 emulation. so you dont really need to go higher than that.

As my final attempt to put my posts in line with the hardware discussion that's going on here, I'd like to say the following:

Nope, this part is definitely not about the emulation. I'm looking forward to the 9xxx series because I feel (I *hope*) that at it'll be something that 8xxx series was not... I'm looking forward to 9xxx's because I think these might be the videocards which will make DX 10 stuff finally enjoyable.. As you know, even the top-of-the-line 8xxx videocards don't perform awesomely well in DirectX 10 games on Vista, partly due to the slownessity of Vista, partly due to the videocard's limitations... But anyway, I'm looking forward to DX 10.1 and a videocard line that will support it in the whole (that is, 9xxx, if they live up to my expectations ). Actually, the 9xxx part of my request had nothing to do with emulation in particular, but more with like the desire to finally get to appreciate the PC DX10(.1) games that are being released in the end of 2007 and that are likely to be released in the future.

By the way, is there any news about the release date of the first 9xxx series videocard? I checked the original NVIDIA website but it seems to be pretty silent about it. I know it was supposed to be released in November, but since it wasn't released then, they must have moved it somewhere further in their roadmap. Any news on this will very much be appreciated.

Thanks to everyone for responding to my questions.

- Agetian

[Hiei-YYH]

Originally Posted by tuanming

I believe most of us in here have a ps2 to begin with... What wrong with having a good pc to play ps2 game using an emulator to emulate it? 0.o Why is ps2 so damn demanding? There're many ways to explain it...the complicated or the easy way. First of all do you even know what's backward engineering? Do you know the difference between the Great White Shark and a fish? If you don't know the answers to those questions then I think I needed not go farther explain it to you...

i don't believe that most ppl who come to pcsx2 forum have a ps2, if you believe that you're not that smart :P it's more like 5% have it. and some of them, prefer buying a ULTRA mega powerful pc with 9999 cores and 100000000ghz than buying the real deal, it's sad but is the true.

too bad for them, i'm not seeing them playing ps3 or xbox360 on their pcs for a long and distant future.

backward engineering isn't illegal? most games have that advice in their manuals :P, at least i think that getting data from softwares reversing it (it doesn't matter which way you did) without proper consent from the company who developed is illegal.

[refraction]

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

backward engineering isn't illegal? most games have that advice in their manuals :P, at least i think that getting data from softwares reversing it (it doesn't matter which way you did) without proper consent from the company who developed is illegal.

reverse engineering software is illegal, reverse engineering hardware isnt

[tuanming]

Hiei-YYH, I hope you're smart enough to know the difference between program and software.. Anyway, when i said "most ppl" in this type of situation I'm referring to legitimate folks whoever they are

[Hiei-YYH]

Originally Posted by tuanming

Hiei-YYH, I hope you're smart enough to know the difference between program and software.. Anyway, when i said "most ppl" in this type of situation I'm referring to legitimate folks whoever they are

[sarcasm]heh, I'm not that smart, I'm just a simple game code hacker [/sarcasm] what this have to do with reverse engineering anyway.

[tuanming]

Originally Posted by Hiei-YYH

i don't believe that most ppl who come to pcsx2 forum have a ps2, if you believe that you're not that smart :P it's more like 5% have it. and some of them, prefer buying a ULTRA mega powerful pc with 9999 cores and 100000000ghz than buying the real deal, it's sad but is the true.

too bad for them, i'm not seeing them playing ps3 or xbox360 on their pcs for a long and distant future.

backward engineering isn't illegal? most games have that advice in their manuals :P, at least i think that getting data from softwares reversing it (it doesn't matter which way you did) without proper consent from the company who developed is illegal.

And what does Xbox360, Ps3 have to do anything with pcsx2? From your previous comments i thought you were a middle school kid talking about pc hardwares and pcsx2... But anyway, let's get back to topic instead of dis-ing people pc spec and how demanding it is to play on a pc or is it illegal...

[runawayprisoner]

Originally Posted by tuanming

Hiei-YYH, I hope you're smart enough to know the difference between program and software.. Anyway, when i said "most ppl" in this type of situation I'm referring to legitimate folks whoever they are

*raises hand* Um... program... and software... are different words!
*coughs* Like that it's obvious. But anyway, I think this would be more appropriate: "most people" come to the PCSX2 forums asking for help most likely don't own a legitimate PS2. "most people" who help around in the PCSX2 forums most likely own a legitimate PS2. => "Not everyone" in the PCSX2 forums own a PS2.

[Master Chief]

Why are you getting a Q6700 when you could get a Q6600 for a significantly less price and overclock it to insane speeds?

[skoreanime]

If the 9xxx series is like any other Nvidia series card, it would probably be better value to get a 8800GTX then a low-end 9xxx series card. Then again, it's still all speculation on their performance...it's possible it can bomb .

[Jarrett]

It's kind of a silly question...building a theoretical PC that is faster than anything available today and asking if it's good enough.

[deamonhunter]

Originally Posted by Jarrett

It's kind of a silly question...building a theoretical PC that is faster than anything available today and asking if it's good enough.

seconded