PC's are more powerful than consoles right? but...

Cons · January 30th, 2003

i know that xbox gpu is gf3 based. and puters are more powerful than consoles. but how come the graphics of consoles look better than pc graphics? is it because of the TV and monitor difference? like, can pc render the same quality grahics as uh, gt3 perhaps? or is it only me?lol
or maybe pc grphics are better and its just my crappy vcard. a lil explanation pls. like compare nbalive2003 pc and ps2, i think ps2 looks better and runs smoother. thanks in advance

Sampah · January 30th, 2003

NOT all games run in PS2 is quite beautifull and smooth, take example of GTA3 vice City, it runs a bit slower in PS2 the frame will drop when viewing many objects like building or tekken4, cool graphics but slower than arcade version, since PS2 not using a high end graphics card, max fps for PS2 is only 60fps however not all games capable of running at this max fps.

about the difference in PS2 graphics, it's just the matter of the monitor screen VS TV screen, of course TV can renderer better image than Monitor, I tried playing tekken3 in PC monitor using VGS(I think all of you know VGS resolution is very ugly since it's using software) but when I use TV out feature of my graphics card, it looks very similiar to PS version.

to make it clearly, if you want COOL GRAPHICS, PC is the only place can house that for you but if you want NICE GAMEPLAY, only PS2 with cool RPG games can make you satisfy.

Adair · January 30th, 2003

all harware in a console is 100% for making the games look good while running smoothly.
Hardware in a PC is designed to do many things (Multi-tasking).

Also when a company develops a game for a specific console they know that every person who will buy their game has the exact same hardware in their console. So the developer can tweak the game engine to run at peak performance on the console's harware.
However when developing for PC the company has to take into account that nearly every consumer has different hardware in their PC. Some people have high end everything, others have completly outdated PCs and still others have half new and half old harware. So the developers have to balance their game engine to run well on a plethora of machines with varying hardware at a multitude of different resolutions and graphical settings.

That's why the people with high end PCs love it when someone like John Carmack decides to make a game like Doom3 which will take much more advantage of the top o' the line hardware than your average game would.

There's probably some other reasons and details to answer your question, but I'm tired...

Player-X · January 30th, 2003

I guess you guys said everything I was going to say

**Kane** · January 30th, 2003

>i know that xbox gpu is gf3 based. and puters are more powerful than consoles. but how come the graphics of consoles look better than pc graphics? is it because of the TV and monitor difference? like, can pc render the same quality grahics as uh, gt3 perhaps? or is it only me?lol
or maybe pc grphics are better and its just my crappy vcard. a lil explanation pls. like compare nbalive2003 pc and ps2, i think ps2 looks better and runs smoother. thanks in advance

Console > PC ports generaly will look better on the console (unless it's done a long time hence). This is because developers are lazy, and can't be bothered to optimise code properly.
PC > Console ports are debatable. Firstly we don't see them that often, and when we do, they are many years after the original release.

Consoles are specificaly games machines, so they don't have to worry about compatibility with productivity apps. Instead of bein multi-purpose, they are single purpose. This makes them better optimised.

>it because of the TV and monitor difference?

You got a TV out on your card? It's a good place to start.

Hanamichi · January 30th, 2003

>I guess you guys said everything I was going to say

Then shut it. Jk

I dont know about other consoles, but the PS2 also has a 2560-bit bus thus offering a theoretical bandwith of 48GB/sec. Er, I think. Its quite weak at the texturing department though (IIRC, 4MB of VRAM for textures) Sometimes hardware just isnt what it seem to be.

**Demigod** · January 30th, 2003

The reason the PS2 has such a wide bus is because it has such a small VRAM size. It's required, since a large amount of textures are transferred across the bus on the PS2 (AGP bus hardly transfers any textures at all).

> PC > Console ports are debatable. Firstly we don't see them that often, and when we do, they are many years after the original release.

They're usually worse in quality than their original PC counterparts. The Warcraft II port (I forgot what system) looked horrible on consoles and the Quake 3 Arena port to the DC suffered from slowdowns and slow mouse movements.

w3_tennis_duran · January 30th, 2003

pc is much better just like u said PC is designed to do many things (Multi-tasking). Adair ps2 cant do that.

**Dark Watcher** · January 30th, 2003

Indeed...It also allows for developers to utilize the main RAM in place of VRAM, and or perform special effects in software instead of hardware.... also keep in mind that PS2 does not have any texture compression...so that bugger is streamlining textures all the time...but with it's vector units..well this is a good example of a machine designed for a single purpose....3D gaming..

Take the Gamecube..that bubba has no VRAM whatsoever...it uses the main memory instead. However it uses a special type of memory and 6:1 texture compression.

It's interesting how some of these consoles are designed...various techniques to perform a single function....nice

Xbox...er...nevermind...standard PC architecture with an OS kernal that focuses on gaming alone....but if hacked we have no doubt that the bugger could run PC applications such as word processing...

Adair · January 30th, 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by w3_tennis_duran
pc is much better just like u said PC is designed to do many things (Multi-tasking). Adair ps2 cant do that.

Ummm...I never said or implied that it could.

Blebekblebek · January 31st, 2003

Hello...

well i'm using TV out on my G2MX...

well the graphics so POor...(maybe because the refresh rate...)

dogulation000 · January 31st, 2003

Nowadays, console to PC ports are becoming more likely.... the only problem is redesigning the controls, Which has nothing to do with graphics, or speed of gaming.

Player-X · January 31st, 2003

Imagine if Unreal Championship on XBoX live can interface with a PC version of UT2003,Let's just say the scores will be quite diffrent

Cons · January 31st, 2003

its just that the games in ps2 look really nice. wish i could play games like gt3 without having to buy a pc. ps3 is coming up right? and have u heard of the new console thats less expensive but claimed to be more powerful? its Phantom** something. forgot the name. thanks everyone

Kazuya Mishima · January 31st, 2003

It also count that the games made for the consoles are in a lower resolution than the 1260xanything that gamer uses in pc games. But the tv makes a kind of blurring thus giving the impression of good graphics. When you see the graphics of the vgs they look ugly, no? Well, the tv makes them appear good beacuse of that blurring.
Its just that the monitor its designed to show the imperfections if the games if they are not made in higher resolutions.

Hanamichi · January 31st, 2003

You can use S Video cables for the consoles. They make the images much sharper and still look better, though some unwanted weak points like low quality textures might become more visible to the eye. I plan on getting one if it isnt expensive in my place.

I've also heard that TV's does something similar to AA, but Im not sure about it.

**Kane** · January 31st, 2003

>well i'm using TV out on my G2MX...
>well the graphics so POor...(maybe because the refresh rate...)

The graphics on a TV are very blurry. This is good for certain games, but for desktop apps it's more than a little annoying.

>its just that the games in ps2 look really nice. wish i could play games like gt3 without having to buy a pc. ps3 is coming up right? and have u heard of the new console thats less expensive but claimed to be more powerful? its Phantom** something. forgot the name. thanks everyone

The Phantom is a joke. Sony and Microsoft were able to break the console market by virtue of haveing spondules of casto throw at thier hardware. Infinitum labs (the guys behind the Phantom) don't have that.
The Phantom won't go anywhere: Mark my words.

>It also count that the games made for the consoles are in a lower resolution than the 1260xanything that gamer uses in pc games.

I use 640x480 in most of the game I play. I don't really know why, but that's the way I work.

>But the tv makes a kind of blurring thus giving the impression of good graphics. When you see the graphics of the vgs they look ugly, no? Well, the tv makes them appear good beacuse of that blurring.

Yes, try smearing a tub of lard over your monitor.... or use screen smoothing in Pete's plugins

>Its just that the monitor its designed to show the imperfections if the games if they are not made in higher resolutions.

It's just that monitors are designed to be sharp for desktop apps.

>You can use S Video cables for the consoles. They make the images much sharper and still look better, though some unwanted weak points like low quality textures might become more visible to the eye. I plan on getting one if it isnt expensive in my place.
I've also heard that TV's does something similar to AA, but Im not sure about it.

S-Video does indeed provide nearly the best TV signal you can get. As I said: the TV blurs the picture.

**Dark Watcher** · January 31st, 2003

Console to PC ports? Because the varied architecture of each game system, and the way each game is made to take advantage of each consoles strong points..sometimes ports can be a royal pain..
In most cases developers have to rebuild a game from the ground up. So far the only exception to the rule is Xbox..since the basic architecture mirrors that of the standard PC. Even then however doing an Xbox to PC port could be a pain since the game has to cater to different types of PC's with different components. ...remember..a game could be built around the capabilities of the Xbox hybrid NVidia chip...so what happens if your an ATI user? Maybe some developers think it is more trouble then what it's worth.....

Now here is an interesting point....The Xbox is capable of 1920x1080 interlaced resolution..the PS2 1280 x 1024 ...the GC max res is still unknown....
Funny thing is (with a handful of exceptions) most games are made to only cater to 480i with resolutions of 320x240 and 640x480...guess developers figure folks will stick to TV only...

Adair · February 1st, 2003

I don't know the max res for GC games either, but I know that quite a few of them have support for 480p. Metroid Prime looked amazing on my friend's 60inch HDTV which supports 1080i and 480p.

January 30th, 2003	#1 (permalink)
Cons Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philippines Posts: 325	PC's are more powerful than consoles right? but... i know that xbox gpu is gf3 based. and puters are more powerful than consoles. but how come the graphics of consoles look better than pc graphics? is it because of the TV and monitor difference? like, can pc render the same quality grahics as uh, gt3 perhaps? or is it only me?lol or maybe pc grphics are better and its just my crappy vcard. a lil explanation pls. like compare nbalive2003 pc and ps2, i think ps2 looks better and runs smoother. thanks in advance __________________ courtesy of STRIDER....thanks man

January 30th, 2003	#2 (permalink)
Sampah The Handsome Man Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Unlucky Place Posts: 881	NOT all games run in PS2 is quite beautifull and smooth, take example of GTA3 vice City, it runs a bit slower in PS2 the frame will drop when viewing many objects like building or tekken4, cool graphics but slower than arcade version, since PS2 not using a high end graphics card, max fps for PS2 is only 60fps however not all games capable of running at this max fps. about the difference in PS2 graphics, it's just the matter of the monitor screen VS TV screen, of course TV can renderer better image than Monitor, I tried playing tekken3 in PC monitor using VGS(I think all of you know VGS resolution is very ugly since it's using software) but when I use TV out feature of my graphics card, it looks very similiar to PS version. to make it clearly, if you want COOL GRAPHICS, PC is the only place can house that for you but if you want NICE GAMEPLAY, only PS2 with cool RPG games can make you satisfy. __________________ PROCESSOR: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ @1.8Ghz RAM: Kingstone 512MB PC3200 MOBO: ECS Nforce4 A939 VGA: Pixelview Geforce 6600GT (Golden Limited Edition) 128MB OS: WinXP pro Service pack 2

January 30th, 2003	#3 (permalink)
Adair Ghost Hacker Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,830	all harware in a console is 100% for making the games look good while running smoothly. Hardware in a PC is designed to do many things (Multi-tasking). Also when a company develops a game for a specific console they know that every person who will buy their game has the exact same hardware in their console. So the developer can tweak the game engine to run at peak performance on the console's harware. However when developing for PC the company has to take into account that nearly every consumer has different hardware in their PC. Some people have high end everything, others have completly outdated PCs and still others have half new and half old harware. So the developers have to balance their game engine to run well on a plethora of machines with varying hardware at a multitude of different resolutions and graphical settings. That's why the people with high end PCs love it when someone like John Carmack decides to make a game like Doom3 which will take much more advantage of the top o' the line hardware than your average game would. There's probably some other reasons and details to answer your question, but I'm tired... __________________ WindowsXP pro \| ASUS A7N8X Nforce2 motherboard \| Athlon XP 1700+(1.46 Ghz) IBM 40GB 7200rpm \| 512Mb DDR PC3000 \| Leadtek geforce4 Ti4400 \| SB live X-gamer 16x DVDrom & 4x4x24x CDrewriter \| Enermax EG465 (430watt power supply)

January 30th, 2003	#5 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,255	>i know that xbox gpu is gf3 based. and puters are more powerful than consoles. but how come the graphics of consoles look better than pc graphics? is it because of the TV and monitor difference? like, can pc render the same quality grahics as uh, gt3 perhaps? or is it only me?lol or maybe pc grphics are better and its just my crappy vcard. a lil explanation pls. like compare nbalive2003 pc and ps2, i think ps2 looks better and runs smoother. thanks in advance Console > PC ports generaly will look better on the console (unless it's done a long time hence). This is because developers are lazy, and can't be bothered to optimise code properly. PC > Console ports are debatable. Firstly we don't see them that often, and when we do, they are many years after the original release. Consoles are specificaly games machines, so they don't have to worry about compatibility with productivity apps. Instead of bein multi-purpose, they are single purpose. This makes them better optimised. >it because of the TV and monitor difference? You got a TV out on your card? It's a good place to start. __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb

January 30th, 2003	#7 (permalink)
Demigod これはバタスです Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,811	The reason the PS2 has such a wide bus is because it has such a small VRAM size. It's required, since a large amount of textures are transferred across the bus on the PS2 (AGP bus hardly transfers any textures at all). > PC > Console ports are debatable. Firstly we don't see them that often, and when we do, they are many years after the original release. They're usually worse in quality than their original PC counterparts. The Warcraft II port (I forgot what system) looked horrible on consoles and the Quake 3 Arena port to the DC suffered from slowdowns and slow mouse movements. __________________ CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66 Ghz (Yorkfield) Mobo: Intel DX48BT2 Memory: 2048 MB PC10600 DDR3 Videocard: PNY Geforce 9800 GX2 PCIe w/ 1024 MB GDDR3 Soundcard: On-board SigmaTel High Definition Audio Hard drive: 300 MB Maxtor & 1 TB Hitachi Optical drive: LG GGW-H20L (2x BD-R DL) OS: Microsoft Windows Vista (32-bit)

January 30th, 2003	#4 (permalink)
Player-X Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: From Kuching in Malaysia now stuck in Houston Texas Posts: 9,110	I guess you guys said everything I was going to say

January 30th, 2003	#6 (permalink)
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,573	>I guess you guys said everything I was going to say Then shut it. Jk I dont know about other consoles, but the PS2 also has a 2560-bit bus thus offering a theoretical bandwith of 48GB/sec. Er, I think. Its quite weak at the texturing department though (IIRC, 4MB of VRAM for textures) Sometimes hardware just isnt what it seem to be.

January 30th, 2003	#8 (permalink)
w3_tennis_duran Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: asia Posts: 260	pc is much better just like u said PC is designed to do many things (Multi-tasking). Adair ps2 cant do that. __________________ i fight like a girl!

January 30th, 2003	#9 (permalink)
Dark Watcher Coffee Demon Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Darkness, Unknown Posts: 2,898	Indeed...It also allows for developers to utilize the main RAM in place of VRAM, and or perform special effects in software instead of hardware.... also keep in mind that PS2 does not have any texture compression...so that bugger is streamlining textures all the time...but with it's vector units..well this is a good example of a machine designed for a single purpose....3D gaming.. Take the Gamecube..that bubba has no VRAM whatsoever...it uses the main memory instead. However it uses a special type of memory and 6:1 texture compression. It's interesting how some of these consoles are designed...various techniques to perform a single function....nice Xbox...er...nevermind...standard PC architecture with an OS kernal that focuses on gaming alone....but if hacked we have no doubt that the bugger could run PC applications such as word processing... __________________

January 31st, 2003	#11 (permalink)
Blebekblebek Kelelep di Laut Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Banjarmasin [Indonesia] Posts: 149	Hello... well i'm using TV out on my G2MX... well the graphics so POor...(maybe because the refresh rate...) __________________ ~ Blebekblebek ~ 500x130, 25k max

January 31st, 2003	#12 (permalink)
dogulation000 The Upcoming Rookie Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 614	Nowadays, console to PC ports are becoming more likely.... the only problem is redesigning the controls, Which has nothing to do with graphics, or speed of gaming.

January 31st, 2003	#13 (permalink)
Player-X Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: From Kuching in Malaysia now stuck in Houston Texas Posts: 9,110	Imagine if Unreal Championship on XBoX live can interface with a PC version of UT2003,Let's just say the scores will be quite diffrent

January 31st, 2003	#14 (permalink)
Cons Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philippines Posts: 325	its just that the games in ps2 look really nice. wish i could play games like gt3 without having to buy a pc. ps3 is coming up right? and have u heard of the new console thats less expensive but claimed to be more powerful? its Phantom** something. forgot the name. thanks everyone __________________ courtesy of STRIDER....thanks man

January 31st, 2003	#15 (permalink)
Kazuya Mishima The seeker of perfection Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Suing somebody Posts: 3,061	It also count that the games made for the consoles are in a lower resolution than the 1260xanything that gamer uses in pc games. But the tv makes a kind of blurring thus giving the impression of good graphics. When you see the graphics of the vgs they look ugly, no? Well, the tv makes them appear good beacuse of that blurring. Its just that the monitor its designed to show the imperfections if the games if they are not made in higher resolutions. __________________ Visit my blog in Spanish: http://andreyirra.blogspot.com

January 31st, 2003	#16 (permalink)
Hanamichi Crotally Tazy Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Malaysia Posts: 4,573	You can use S Video cables for the consoles. They make the images much sharper and still look better, though some unwanted weak points like low quality textures might become more visible to the eye. I plan on getting one if it isnt expensive in my place. I've also heard that TV's does something similar to AA, but Im not sure about it.

January 31st, 2003	#17 (permalink)
Kane 邪魔ゎ指せない Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Gosport, England Posts: 26,255	>well i'm using TV out on my G2MX... >well the graphics so POor...(maybe because the refresh rate...) The graphics on a TV are very blurry. This is good for certain games, but for desktop apps it's more than a little annoying. >its just that the games in ps2 look really nice. wish i could play games like gt3 without having to buy a pc. ps3 is coming up right? and have u heard of the new console thats less expensive but claimed to be more powerful? its Phantom** something. forgot the name. thanks everyone The Phantom is a joke. Sony and Microsoft were able to break the console market by virtue of haveing spondules of casto throw at thier hardware. Infinitum labs (the guys behind the Phantom) don't have that. The Phantom won't go anywhere: Mark my words. >It also count that the games made for the consoles are in a lower resolution than the 1260xanything that gamer uses in pc games. I use 640x480 in most of the game I play. I don't really know why, but that's the way I work. >But the tv makes a kind of blurring thus giving the impression of good graphics. When you see the graphics of the vgs they look ugly, no? Well, the tv makes them appear good beacuse of that blurring. Yes, try smearing a tub of lard over your monitor.... or use screen smoothing in Pete's plugins >Its just that the monitor its designed to show the imperfections if the games if they are not made in higher resolutions. It's just that monitors are designed to be sharp for desktop apps. >You can use S Video cables for the consoles. They make the images much sharper and still look better, though some unwanted weak points like low quality textures might become more visible to the eye. I plan on getting one if it isnt expensive in my place. I've also heard that TV's does something similar to AA, but Im not sure about it. S-Video does indeed provide nearly the best TV signal you can get. As I said: the TV blurs the picture. __________________ >Site Live< Pop over to my site for help with setting up PSX emulators. Help for the Final Fantasies and other RPGs avalaible Celes: (Desktop) Athlon 64 X2 4200+, 2Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, MSI K8N Platinum, GeForce 8800 GTS 320Mb, 500Gb RAID HDD, Vista Business Erika: (MCPC) Athlon XP 2400+, 1Gb 400MHz DDR Ram, geForce 6800 256Mb, 80Gb Hdd, XP 2005 MCE Kimiko: (Desktop 2) Athlon 64 3000+, 512Mb 400MHz DDR Ram, Asus K8V, geForce 6800 128Mb

January 31st, 2003	#18 (permalink)
Dark Watcher Coffee Demon Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Darkness, Unknown Posts: 2,898	Console to PC ports? Because the varied architecture of each game system, and the way each game is made to take advantage of each consoles strong points..sometimes ports can be a royal pain.. In most cases developers have to rebuild a game from the ground up. So far the only exception to the rule is Xbox..since the basic architecture mirrors that of the standard PC. Even then however doing an Xbox to PC port could be a pain since the game has to cater to different types of PC's with different components. ...remember..a game could be built around the capabilities of the Xbox hybrid NVidia chip...so what happens if your an ATI user? Maybe some developers think it is more trouble then what it's worth..... Now here is an interesting point....The Xbox is capable of 1920x1080 interlaced resolution..the PS2 1280 x 1024 ...the GC max res is still unknown.... Funny thing is (with a handful of exceptions) most games are made to only cater to 480i with resolutions of 320x240 and 640x480...guess developers figure folks will stick to TV only... __________________

February 1st, 2003	#19 (permalink)
Adair Ghost Hacker Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,830	I don't know the max res for GC games either, but I know that quite a few of them have support for 480p. Metroid Prime looked amazing on my friend's 60inch HDTV which supports 1080i and 480p. __________________ WindowsXP pro \| ASUS A7N8X Nforce2 motherboard \| Athlon XP 1700+(1.46 Ghz) IBM 40GB 7200rpm \| 512Mb DDR PC3000 \| Leadtek geforce4 Ti4400 \| SB live X-gamer 16x DVDrom & 4x4x24x CDrewriter \| Enermax EG465 (430watt power supply)

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