Nvidia not only blocks out PhysX but now a basic feature like Anti Aliasing.

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

That's nonsense. nVidia does not want ATi to use AA on this game cuz the AA on this game was nVidia's work.

...how much do I need to repeat that till you get it?

nVidia has NOT claimed complete total and absolute dominion over AA for ever and ever and ever so chill

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[strike105x]

Originally Posted by lagunareturns

your comment is absurd because this is the same thing as having eax supported in a game, its an option that can be enabled when you use a creative sound card... so why nvidia cant have the same....

Option is one thing but the way you expressed your idea in the other post made it seem like separating games based on hardware like the separation on games on different platforms (like some platforms having a game and another not having it). If i misunderstood and it was just about the some options sorry, if i didn't misunderstood then i still say its absurd.

Originally Posted by lagunareturns

also when pc is a platform regardless of hardware used, some select few games, sure they are old ones, only support specific video cards (like turok 2), sure you can setup the game to work with a tnt video card, when you are 8800 gt but youll realise its not 100% perfect like lighting, glitches and having your enemies turn invisible after an hour...

Ok this is a bad example now really how do you want a game to support future hardware which it has no idea about cause i really doubt Acclaim knew'd in 1999 about Nvidia's 8XXX series but decided not to support it.

__________________

|Strike's Deviantart|Anime List|Important Notice|

[seinfeldx]

I know that, its just stupid to make the market that way with nvidia games and ati games where you can only get AA if you have their graphic cards, the game is not owned by nvidia nor ati.

__________________

C2D E6550 @ 2333 Mhz | HD2600XT | P5KC | 1 + 1 GB G.Skill 6400HK 800 4.4.3.5

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Originally Posted by seinfeldx

I know that, its just stupid to make the market that way with nvidia games and ati games where you can only get AA if you have their graphic cards, the game is not owned by nvidia nor ati.

most other engines support AA natively so that's not going to happen

The only reason why it happend in this case is because THE GAME ENGINE DID NOT NATIVELY SUPPORT AA

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[Demigod]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

most other engines support AA natively so that's not going to happen

The only reason why it happend in this case is because THE GAME ENGINE DID NOT NATIVELY SUPPORT AA

Yup. If the game doesn't support AA natively then the developers would be taking a huge risk in enabling AA for all cards when their implementation is only explicitly supported for Nvidia cards. Even if it appears to work on ATI cards there is no guarantee and without that guarantee the best thing to do is to exclude the feature for their cards. It is the only sensible choice.

__________________
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Mobo: Intel DX48BT2 Memory: 8192 MB PC10600 DDR3 Videocard: PNY Geforce 9800 GX2 Soundcard: On-board SigmaTel High Definition Audio Hard drive: 1 TB Seagate & 1 TB Hitachi Optical drive: LG GGW-H20L (2x BD-R DL) PSU: Nexus 1000 Watt OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit)

[KrossX]

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

most other engines support AA natively so that's not going to happen

The only reason why it happend in this case is because THE GAME ENGINE DID NOT NATIVELY SUPPORT AA

Yup yup and yup. As you've said and has been said many times, the support of AA to the Unreal3 Engine was a work of nVIDIA so it's perfectly right to claim it an added feature of them.

It is quite different as the blocking of PhysX.

__________________

[seinfeldx]

It sounds like you saying that you could be in danger just to use AA on ati like is gonna explode, you can say that they could make it available and if its would work slower on ati they would say that ati sucks but that not the case, they just don't want ati users have AA.

__________________

C2D E6550 @ 2333 Mhz | HD2600XT | P5KC | 1 + 1 GB G.Skill 6400HK 800 4.4.3.5

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Originally Posted by KrossX

It is quite different as the blocking of PhysX.

Although that too is ok cuz ATi can't do PhysX to save their life...or rather they just plain can't so it's handled by the CPU as Squall said which causes unplayable performance so it might as well not be supported thus I don't see the problem with locking it away....like I would really care if a feature which brings my FPS below 30 is blocked from me using it.

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[strike105x]

I already think i'm going to have nightmares with the unreal engine and AA this night if he says it again i'm probably gonna go to the nut house :P.

__________________

|Strike's Deviantart|Anime List|Important Notice|

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Originally Posted by seinfeldx

It sounds like you saying that you could be in danger just to use AA on ati like is gonna explode, you can say that they could make it available and if its would work slower on ati they would say that ati sucks but that not the case, they just don't want ati users have AA.

Well techincally if the AA was not developed for use with a certain card eventhough it may work you could techincally sue and win if your card was to explode, especially in america.

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[seinfeldx]

I know, in america a thief sued the person he was stealing because he got injured, but it not likely that to happen even with programs that stress gpu more than games that doesn't happen.

__________________

C2D E6550 @ 2333 Mhz | HD2600XT | P5KC | 1 + 1 GB G.Skill 6400HK 800 4.4.3.5

[SCHUMI_4EVER]

Originally Posted by seinfeldx

I know, in america a thief sued the person he was stealing because he got injured, but it not likely that to happen even with programs that stress gpu more than games that doesn't happen.

It does not matter, even if there's a remote chance you have to cover you rear or face the risk of getting sued out of your shoes.

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

[KrossX]

I meant it in the way PhysX is disabled when the main card ain't nVIDIA.
( or was it just when a non-nVIDIA card is present?.. that's even worst )

I would like to still have a use for a replaced card, even if it's just for PhysX. As if it were an old Ageia's card.

__________________

[Squall-Leonhart]

OK, all of you seriously just shut up for a moment.

This has nothing to do with Nvidia not wanting ATI to use AA, This has everything to do with ATI not working with the developers to ensure that a UT3+AA patch was checked in and certified to work with the Batman implementation of AA.

As i said earlier

UT3 = DFR (Deferred Rendering).

Dx10 does not allow DFR and AA to work as it normally would, without implementing Driver level work arounds (The driver needs to run through a intercept and reroute code path, which applies AA and is then directed back towards DFR, As DFR changes the image just enough to prevent the hardware from retrieving a colour sample which is required to apply AA in DX10 and lower hardware) or using SoftAA. (or implementing a 3 stage render method which would impact on performance heavily)

The option might be available if you force the Dev ID, however its most likely not working effectively and there will be missing or corrupted effects.

Dx10.1 allows DFR + AA in hardware, however the UT3 engine in Batman was not adapted to this.

The Devs used Vendor IDs and most likely a min Driver string in a Device List within one of the compiled files to ensure that the AA setting only gets shown on cards who have been verified to have Working AA on the game.

ATI DID NOT work with the Developers to ensure that a DFR+AA work around was inplace, so the Developers never enabled AA to work on ATI cards.

IF ATI gots its game on and came to the table and works with developers, rather then chucking a **** and accusing nvidia of "sabotage" Then one would find that the AA option would be available within the first updates.

ATI KNOWS full well that the UT3 engine does not support AA without driver level work arounds, and is deflecting their Complacency and laziness off on Nvidia as underhanded market tactics.

Now, If anyone does not believe me, they can verify it with the developers of Batman:AA themselves.

This is not the first time, that ATI has dropped the ball when it comes to Developer relations and its not something that happens rarely either.

This is very much why ATI comes to the table late when it comes to support of new titles within their drivers.

Originally Posted by lagunareturns

your comment is absurd because this is the same thing as having eax supported in a game, its an option that can be enabled when you use a creative sound card... so why nvidia cant have the same....

Except that now that most have openal support EAX up to 5 can be emulated accurately on most hardware.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; October 3rd, 2009 at 04:42.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[KrossX]

I think there's already a quorum regarding the AA feature actions, not being wrong.

__________________

[Squall-Leonhart]

physx re-enabled on FW190
http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/1...html#post82812

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

OK, all of you seriously just shut up for a moment.

This has nothing to do with Nvidia not wanting ATI to use AA, This has everything to do with ATI not working with the developers to ensure that a UT3+AA patch was checked in and certified to work with the Batman implementation of AA.

As i said earlier

The Devs used Vendor IDs and most likely a min Driver string in a Device List within one of the compiled files to ensure that the AA setting only gets shown on cards who have been verified to have Working AA on the game.

ATI DID NOT work with the Developers to ensure that a DFR+AA work around was inplace, so the Developers never enabled AA to work on ATI cards.

IF ATI gots its game on and came to the table and works with developers, rather then chucking a **** and accusing nvidia of "sabotage" Then one would find that the AA option would be available within the first updates.

ATI KNOWS full well that the UT3 engine does not support AA without driver level work arounds, and is deflecting their Complacency and laziness off on Nvidia as underhanded market tactics.

Now, If anyone does not believe me, they can verify it with the developers of Batman:AA themselves.

This is not the first time, that ATI has dropped the ball when it comes to Developer relations and its not something that happens rarely either.

This is very much why ATI comes to the table late when it comes to support of new titles within their drivers.

I completely understand what you're saying, and it makes sense. I do wonder however in how far nVidia's TWIMTBP program makes the game an "exclusive" to them, so that no ATi help is involved? I don't know the contracts, but I can imagine that if you sign with one, signing with the other would not be allowed by contract?

As for re-enabling PhysX: A wise idea from a marketing POV. First creating public awareness about the possibility by removing it. All hardware sites complain and give publicity. Then enabling it again, but not having all people know about it you raise the chances of people purchasing your GPUs for this purpose, raising brand awareness and sales. Not a bad idea seeing how the 58XX series are the best thing to get and they don't have anything anytime soon

__________________

PC Specs:
CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz
GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000
Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1)
SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz
HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB
PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W
Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 1920*1200

Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!

[Mr. B]

This has everything to do with ATI not working with the developers to ensure that a UT3+AA patch was checked in and certified to work with the Batman implementation of AA.

The developers obviously work with cement and not marble if they have to get help from video card developers for certain "features"

As DFR changes the image just enough to prevent the hardware from retrieving a colour sample which is required to apply AA in DX10 and lower hardware) or using SoftAA. (or implementing a 3 stage render method which would impact on performance heavily)

And how is using a G-Buffer made of composite render targets impacting performance? Most DFR renderers render to several render targets before composition.....so.....

And whats the harm in using shaders for filtering the final image?

I suggest reading this before people rant more.....

---

Last edited by Mr. B; October 5th, 2009 at 09:57..

[StriderVM]

For me it's normal for ATI to complain since NVidia gets AA while ATI doesn't on Batman Asylum, but doesn't make it necessarily, true. Since naturally there's no real AA on the Unreal engine and nVidia has some work with the developers in having an implementation to it....

But I think the TWIMTBP is a wolf in sheeps clothing type of racket, since it eases the programmers problem.... By focusing on one hardware rather than think of all the other vcard manufacturers. Which isn't fair....
/closet ATI fanboy? :P

But then in essence, it's pot calling the kettle black.... -_-

__________________
Current PC specs :
AsRock 945GCM-S
Pentium Dual Core E5200 @ 2912Mhz (233x12.5)
Palit Radeon 4850 Sonic 512MB gDDR3
2x2048MB Kingston DDR2 800Mhz RAM

[Squall-Leonhart]

I have actually seen 1 game which was part of both nvidia's and ati's programs....... i'm just too arsed to fish it out of my hundred or so disks....

Originally Posted by Mr. B

The developers obviously work with cement and not marble if they have to get help from video card developers for certain "features"




And how is using a G-Buffer made of composite render targets impacting performance? Most DFR renderers render to several render targets before composition.....so.....

And whats the harm in using shaders for filtering the final image?

I suggest reading this before people rant more.....

Well you know how lazy developers are these days.

Done right DFR wouldn't break AA at all.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; October 5th, 2009 at 13:27.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost