ATi vs Nvidia 2008 - Page 6

**blueshogun96** · October 27th, 2008

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Anyway, I'm still choosing NVIDIA. At this point, I still don't see what ATI has that NVIDIA doesn't. Sure ATI has more compatible drivers, but NVIDIA's tools, and instrumented drivers are something I just can't live without. I'm a graphics programmer and the SDKs are awesome! The NVPerfHUD analysis tools are really helpful for finding those hard to find bottlenecks. So for me it's not just the hardware, it's the software support too. Besides, NVIDIA is the only hardware vendor with decent OpenGL drivers.

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Last edited by blueshogun96; October 28th, 2008 at 01:45..

Squall-Leonhart · October 27th, 2008

neither one has overall compatible drivers.

Nvidia has some issues with older games, while ati has issue with opengl, and if you run crossfire....

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IronicMan · October 27th, 2008

Nvidia is getting desperate... a sad day to see how far they have fallen. They claimed an 9800GT is faster than the 4830 w/ intended spec by showing slides of graphs from TPU with a 8800GT (lol, even they admit it's the same card) and a 4830 560SP bugged version...

NVIDIA Responds to Radeon HD 4830 Launch, Claims GeForce 9800 GT is Better - techPowerUp! Forums

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dimentionalrift · October 27th, 2008

I wanted to go for a GTX280 OCX from XFX, but I got a much better deal with a Sapphire 4870X2, and to be honest I'm not even slightly regretting.
Crysis, the most unoptimized game to this day, a game that was written specificly for Nvidia cards, was eaten up in a second, and that was after I disabled one of the cores and lowered the used onboard memory to half (1GB out of 2GB) - got an average FPS rate of 35.92FPS, take that Nvidia.
Oh and I was using Catalyst 8.8 for the test.

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**blueshogun96** · October 28th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

Nvidia has some issues with older games

NVIDIA has many issues with older games. There are many explanations for it. I'm sure you already know these things, but it's for those who don't.

1. NVIDIA (as well as most GPU vendors) don't actively check their drivers against old versions of DirectDraw/Direct3D. If support for a particular feature is broken, either they did it on purpose, they don't know about it, or they just don't give a rat's ass.
2. APIs evolve to meed the needs of the hardware, not vice versa. Good API design starts with creating functions that can efficiently manipulate the hardware level registers efficiently as possible and using minimal CPU cycles. For instance, NVIDIA's hardware registers went through a drastic change between the TNT (Riva, Vanta and Aladdin) and the first GeForce series (GeForce 256). So when the hardware changes, writing drivers to use that API to access the hardware need to change to efficiently do the job. Meaning you can't expect DirectX 3.0's IDirect3DExecuteBuffer which was written with old Nvidia and 3Dfx in mind to have the same performance on a modern card with a totally different architecture, regardless of the game's system requirements.
3. Some games (particularly older ones) sometimes take advantage of the video card's/driver's bugs. Doing so is a bad decision on their part not only because it doesn't help the hardware vendor fix their drivers, but helps further break the game if/when the driver bug is fixed. A good example of this is Aliens versus Predator. When clearing the Z-Buffer, instead of using the Direct3D API to clear the z-buffer (so the driver can handle it the way it's supposed to), instead they used a DirectDraw API to clear it manually. Since a Z-Buffer was queried as a surface back then (IDirectDrawSurface), it was possible to clear a Z-Buffer by filling it with 0xFFFFFFFF by calling IDirectDrawSurface::Blt. I changed this around in the source code before, and it fixed the problem until the latest drivers came out. Now the only way to play the game is by using a Direct3D9 port done by sirlemonhead.
4. NVIDIA in general doesn't give a rat's ass about older games unless it was a highly popular game (i.e. HalfLife, Unreal, etc.) that if not fixed could cost them valuable customers. NVIDIA rarely fixes older games for certain crowds. It's rather suprising that NVIDIA made a fix for Aliens versus Predator, but the NVIDIA users have been bugging them for a fix. After the next driver release, the game was broken again.

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**SCHUMI_4EVER** · October 29th, 2008

I highly doubt ATI is any better though.

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Squall-Leonhart · October 29th, 2008

most of the games having problems are Dx7 titles, which i've been told is a result of DX attempting to use SM2 instructions via vertex and pixel shaders, resulting in bad performance.... the drivers got a mega update in 177 to fix that.

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guest.r · November 2nd, 2008

Old games (dating before 2k) shouldn't become an issue in mainstream discussions, because there are other simple solutions to enjoy them, for example maintaining a second rig, is almost for free if not for free amongs friends.

But it's cool if someone reminds the folks for some incoming situations, so they can plan a bigger working place in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest.r

But it's cool if someone reminds the folks for some incoming situations, so they can plan a bigger working place in advance.

Err...what about hd rack, dual boot and OS in OS solutions? :P
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise, now i sincerely hope for nVidia that they'll get some nice console/notebook contracts.

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Last edited by guest.r; November 2nd, 2008 at 09:19.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

ToM_E · December 6th, 2008

The last nvidia card I bought was the TNT 2. Been with Ati ever since.

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**SCHUMI_4EVER** · December 6th, 2008

Eventhough I have made comments before, but I never voted. So I have now voted in nVidia's favour seeing as I have GTX260 which I love it kinda had to be so.

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TheMaister · December 6th, 2008

Well. I've had:

GeForce 2 MX
GeForce FX 5200 (Worst purchase ever in my PC-career)

ATi Radeon 9800 pro
GeForce 7800GT
GeForce 8800GT (now)

I'm quite satisfied with nVidia. Their OpenGL support is the very best (running Linux mostly here.), and that's a very big plus for me. I'm considering an ATi card, but it will be decided by their effort in OpenGL and Linux support (which is coming along now!

)

Squall-Leonhart · December 7th, 2008

I've had, and or tested

Riva TNT
Geforce 2, mx 200, 400, GT
Geforce 4MX 200, 400, Ti4800se
Geforce FX 5200, 5700, 5900XT(and ran it at ultra speeds)
Geforce 6600GT, 6800GS
Geforce 7600GS, 7950GT

ATI Radeon 7200
Radeon 8500
Radeon 9200

....I chose nvidia in easy to use DCP, as well as old skool support.

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IronicMan · January 1st, 2009

techPowerUp! News :: G92-Based GeForce 9 Series Products to be Renamed GeForce GTS 200 Series
Hope this piece isn't true but if this is true... really? Has nVidia becoming this desperate with the renaming/rebadging sprees?
8800GT = 9800GT = GTS 240? 8800GTS = GTS 250? wow. unbelievable.

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IamWhatIam · January 1st, 2009

Its just a marketing scheme. Change the name and people will buy it.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PsyMan

I personally find the way some members react when things do not go as they wish pathetic.

You can always add a member in your ignore list, report his posts, request a ban, but making a new thread/post announcing that you're leaving just because of this member... it is pathetic.

Not worth to give a damn. So long, goodbye, don't let the door hit your back on your way out.

Lord Zedeck · January 1st, 2009

Weren't they supposed to rename the entire GeForce 9 series to GTX/GTS 1x0, but that never happened?

As for ATi versus nVidia, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I prefer nVidia. I have owned more nVidia cards. Of course, I don't let that make my decisions for it, but if I were purchasing one of two "similar" cards, one from each GPU maker (for example, a choice between a GeForce 8800GT or a HD4830), if the cost and performance was close enough, I'd edge towards nVidia. I prefer their drivers as well, though they're more even these days (in the past, nVidia had the hands down advantage here). nVidia has generally seemed to have either quieter and/or cooler running cards as well (bar the GeForce FX series), which is big to me.

Lately though, I'm considering going initiative with ATi out the gate, due to nVidia's recent tactics (renaming, not making any real new cards, yet charging high prices for stuff, etc.). They only improved slightly since ATi's price to performance was good, and nVidia's so bad, but if nVidia goes back and makes a half rehash card with a new name and a high price, I'm not going with them.

Depending on the situation of price and performance then, I'm going to get either the supposed GeForce GTX 360/380 or the supposed Radeon HD5850/5870 for my next card. I'm hoping nVidia doesn't slip up, but it's looking like I may be going with ATi again finally (the 9700 or 9800 non Pro was the last I had).

By the way, we need a thread for 2009, unless that's going to be held for the GeForce GTX3x0 and Radeon HD5xx0 series (not until at least June though for those though, right?).

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Last edited by Lord Zedeck; January 2nd, 2009 at 23:42..

strike105x · January 1st, 2009

Had ati rage 3d 8 mb (which believe me or not in pete's d3d (dont remember the version) did better than TNT2 32 mb)
TNT2 32 Mb needed in some games cause the ati wouldnt play'd them
Geforce 2 MX 64 mb
Nvidia FX 5200 (bigest disapointment)
Ati 9200 (performed better than FX5200 even though it was still on directX 8.1)
Ati 9600 XT (was verry happy with that bord)
Ati X1050 (so & so bord basically a 9600 with DDR2 and on PCI-express

)
Nvidia 8400 GS (it may have had directX 10 suport but it was expensier (back then a few months ago dont remember exactly now i think they are in the same price range) than my bored and had at least half performance in direct X 9 at least)
Ati X1550 considering the price it performs verry good
(this were cards that i owned)
Had tested many others but what makes me like ati more then Nvidia its the Image quality +2d which lacks from nvidia thats why even when nvidia had an ahead start with performance (talking about the geforce 8XXX compared to HD2/3XXX) i still loved ati more

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Phil · January 1st, 2009

Cant wait until gtx300's comes out

hey, cool i have a gtx240 already, so **** you!!!

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xXStrikeFreedom · January 28th, 2009

I've always preferred NVIDIA's cards. Generally because their cards are D3D based. Though each has committed to maintain the standards of both D3D and OpenGL nowadays, I prefer a card which has dominance in D3D rather than OpenGL.

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Last edited by xXStrikeFreedom; January 28th, 2009 at 01:52..

raksmey1309 · January 28th, 2009

I've had TNT
Geforce 2
Geforce 4 MX
Geforce FX 5700
Geforce 8800GT (Current)
I am saftified with NVIDIA.

**SCHUMI_4EVER** · January 28th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXStrikeFreedom

I've always preferred NVIDIA's cards. Generally because their cards are D3D based. Though each has committed to maintain the standards of both D3D and OpenGL nowadays, I prefer a card which has dominance in D3D rather than OpenGL.

nVidia cards have dominance in OpenGL...

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No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

View Poll Results: ATi or nVidia?
ATi FTW!	66	43.42%
nVidia forever!	86	56.58%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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October 27th, 2008	#102 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	neither one has overall compatible drivers. Nvidia has some issues with older games, while ati has issue with opengl, and if you run crossfire.... __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

October 27th, 2008	#103 (permalink)
IronicMan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 74	Nvidia is getting desperate... a sad day to see how far they have fallen. They claimed an 9800GT is faster than the 4830 w/ intended spec by showing slides of graphs from TPU with a 8800GT (lol, even they admit it's the same card) and a 4830 560SP bugged version... NVIDIA Responds to Radeon HD 4830 Launch, Claims GeForce 9800 GT is Better - techPowerUp! Forums __________________ Intel C2Q Q9450 w/ OCZ Vendetta 2 + Yate Loon D12SH-12 + OCZ Freeze @ 3.6Ghz, vcore: 1.27 GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R OCZ 2X2GB OCZ2P10004GK @ 900MHZ 4-4-4-15-2T WD WD6401AALS 640GB HD WD WD10EACS 1TB HD Visiontek Radeon HD4870 512MB Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic modded w/ LM4562, Blackgate 2200uF, and ERS Paper Antec 900 w/ Dust Filters + 4X Yate Loon D12SH-124B PCP&C S75QB Silencer 750W 2X Samsung SH-S203N DVD Burner 2X SOYO 24" Topaz M-PVA Logitech X-5500 Logitech QuickCam Orbit AF, Logitech G15 v2, Logitech G5 v2, 4x Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2 APC BX1300LCD MS Vista Ultimate x64 SP1

October 27th, 2008	#104 (permalink)
dimentionalrift Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Israel Posts: 544	I wanted to go for a GTX280 OCX from XFX, but I got a much better deal with a Sapphire 4870X2, and to be honest I'm not even slightly regretting. Crysis, the most unoptimized game to this day, a game that was written specificly for Nvidia cards, was eaten up in a second, and that was after I disabled one of the cores and lowered the used onboard memory to half (1GB out of 2GB) - got an average FPS rate of 35.92FPS, take that Nvidia. Oh and I was using Catalyst 8.8 for the test. __________________ Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

October 29th, 2008	#106 (permalink)
SCHUMI_4EVER Hackin 'n Slashin Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Corrupt Rapist run South Africa Posts: 11,327	I highly doubt ATI is any better though. __________________ Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) \| ASUS P5Q \| 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 \| ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M \| Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1 The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!! No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0 Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!! !!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

October 29th, 2008	#107 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	most of the games having problems are Dx7 titles, which i've been told is a result of DX attempting to use SM2 instructions via vertex and pixel shaders, resulting in bad performance.... the drivers got a mega update in 177 to fix that. __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

December 6th, 2008	#109 (permalink)
ToM_E 8+ Years Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Over The Rainbow Posts: 2,794	The last nvidia card I bought was the TNT 2. Been with Ati ever since. __________________ Intel Q9550 @ 3.74 Ghz Xigmatek Dark Knight G.SKILL 4GB DDR2 533 GIGABYTE EP45-UD3P Hitachi 1TB Samsung 1TB LG 20X DVD-RW (SATA) Lancool K62W Asus 4870 Dark Night Corsair 750TX Scythe Kaze Master Ace Windows Vista Eternity x64

December 6th, 2008	#110 (permalink)
SCHUMI_4EVER Hackin 'n Slashin Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Corrupt Rapist run South Africa Posts: 11,327	Eventhough I have made comments before, but I never voted. So I have now voted in nVidia's favour seeing as I have GTX260 which I love it kinda had to be so. __________________ Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) \| ASUS P5Q \| 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 \| ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M \| Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1 The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!! No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0 Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!! !!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

December 6th, 2008	#111 (permalink)
TheMaister Go-player 15 kyu ^^ Join Date: May 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 185	Well. I've had: GeForce 2 MX GeForce FX 5200 (Worst purchase ever in my PC-career) ATi Radeon 9800 pro GeForce 7800GT GeForce 8800GT (now) I'm quite satisfied with nVidia. Their OpenGL support is the very best (running Linux mostly here.), and that's a very big plus for me. I'm considering an ATi card, but it will be decided by their effort in OpenGL and Linux support (which is coming along now! )

December 7th, 2008	#112 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,832	I've had, and or tested Riva TNT Geforce 2, mx 200, 400, GT Geforce 4MX 200, 400, Ti4800se Geforce FX 5200, 5700, 5900XT(and ran it at ultra speeds) Geforce 6600GT, 6800GS Geforce 7600GS, 7950GT ATI Radeon 7200 Radeon 8500 Radeon 9200 ....I chose nvidia in easy to use DCP, as well as old skool support. __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

January 1st, 2009	#113 (permalink)
IronicMan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 74	techPowerUp! News :: G92-Based GeForce 9 Series Products to be Renamed GeForce GTS 200 Series Hope this piece isn't true but if this is true... really? Has nVidia becoming this desperate with the renaming/rebadging sprees? 8800GT = 9800GT = GTS 240? 8800GTS = GTS 250? wow. unbelievable. __________________ Intel C2Q Q9450 w/ OCZ Vendetta 2 + Yate Loon D12SH-12 + OCZ Freeze @ 3.6Ghz, vcore: 1.27 GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R OCZ 2X2GB OCZ2P10004GK @ 900MHZ 4-4-4-15-2T WD WD6401AALS 640GB HD WD WD10EACS 1TB HD Visiontek Radeon HD4870 512MB Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic modded w/ LM4562, Blackgate 2200uF, and ERS Paper Antec 900 w/ Dust Filters + 4X Yate Loon D12SH-124B PCP&C S75QB Silencer 750W 2X Samsung SH-S203N DVD Burner 2X SOYO 24" Topaz M-PVA Logitech X-5500 Logitech QuickCam Orbit AF, Logitech G15 v2, Logitech G5 v2, 4x Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2 APC BX1300LCD MS Vista Ultimate x64 SP1

January 1st, 2009	#115 (permalink)
Lord Zedeck Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,804	Weren't they supposed to rename the entire GeForce 9 series to GTX/GTS 1x0, but that never happened? As for ATi versus nVidia, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I prefer nVidia. I have owned more nVidia cards. Of course, I don't let that make my decisions for it, but if I were purchasing one of two "similar" cards, one from each GPU maker (for example, a choice between a GeForce 8800GT or a HD4830), if the cost and performance was close enough, I'd edge towards nVidia. I prefer their drivers as well, though they're more even these days (in the past, nVidia had the hands down advantage here). nVidia has generally seemed to have either quieter and/or cooler running cards as well (bar the GeForce FX series), which is big to me. Lately though, I'm considering going initiative with ATi out the gate, due to nVidia's recent tactics (renaming, not making any real new cards, yet charging high prices for stuff, etc.). They only improved slightly since ATi's price to performance was good, and nVidia's so bad, but if nVidia goes back and makes a half rehash card with a new name and a high price, I'm not going with them. Depending on the situation of price and performance then, I'm going to get either the supposed GeForce GTX 360/380 or the supposed Radeon HD5850/5870 for my next card. I'm hoping nVidia doesn't slip up, but it's looking like I may be going with ATi again finally (the 9700 or 9800 non Pro was the last I had). By the way, we need a thread for 2009, unless that's going to be held for the GeForce GTX3x0 and Radeon HD5xx0 series (not until at least June though for those though, right?). __________________ "Without forgiveness, life is governed by an endless cycle of resentment and retaliation." "Judge people not of their mistakes, but on how they handle those mistakes." Core 2 Duo E8600 @4.0GHz- ASUS Maximus Formula (Rampage Formula BIOS 0701) - 8GB (4x 2GB) Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 MSI nVidia GeForce 8800GT 512MB - 4x Western Digital Caviar SE16 6400AAKS (2,560GB total) - PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 IBM P275 21" CRT (1600x1200 @100Hz) - Logitech Z-2300 2.1 Sound System - Windows XP SP3 & Windows 7 64-bit Last edited by Lord Zedeck; January 2nd, 2009 at 23:42..

January 1st, 2009	#116 (permalink)
strike105x Bruce Willis as Ichigo... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ...means Bleach ends after episode 1 Posts: 3,557	Had ati rage 3d 8 mb (which believe me or not in pete's d3d (dont remember the version) did better than TNT2 32 mb) TNT2 32 Mb needed in some games cause the ati wouldnt play'd them Geforce 2 MX 64 mb Nvidia FX 5200 (bigest disapointment) Ati 9200 (performed better than FX5200 even though it was still on directX 8.1) Ati 9600 XT (was verry happy with that bord) Ati X1050 (so & so bord basically a 9600 with DDR2 and on PCI-express ) Nvidia 8400 GS (it may have had directX 10 suport but it was expensier (back then a few months ago dont remember exactly now i think they are in the same price range) than my bored and had at least half performance in direct X 9 at least) Ati X1550 considering the price it performs verry good (this were cards that i owned) Had tested many others but what makes me like ati more then Nvidia its the Image quality +2d which lacks from nvidia thats why even when nvidia had an ahead start with performance (talking about the geforce 8XXX compared to HD2/3XXX) i still loved ati more __________________ \|Strike's Deviantart\|Anime List\|Important Notice\|

January 1st, 2009	#117 (permalink)
Phil Regular User ;) Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Naples Florida Posts: 9,964	Cant wait until gtx300's comes out hey, cool i have a gtx240 already, so **** you!!! __________________ A Mac is like an escort, you pay a ton and get nothing. A PC is like a hooker, it's a lot cheaper and gives you what you're after.. and if unlucky some diseases as well, that's why you gotta use protection. -CC

January 28th, 2009	#118 (permalink)
xXStrikeFreedom Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wales Posts: 29	I've always preferred NVIDIA's cards. Generally because their cards are D3D based. Though each has committed to maintain the standards of both D3D and OpenGL nowadays, I prefer a card which has dominance in D3D rather than OpenGL. __________________ Current specs: Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo CPU E7200 @ 2.53GHz 2.53GHz\| RAM: 3GB \| GPU: EVGA NVIDIA 9800 GTX \| ATI RADEON HD 4850 \| XFX NVIDIA GTX 280 (gift) Last edited by xXStrikeFreedom; January 28th, 2009 at 01:52..

January 28th, 2009	#119 (permalink)
raksmey1309 Away Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kingdom of Cambodia Posts: 2,277	I've had TNT Geforce 2 Geforce 4 MX Geforce FX 5700 Geforce 8800GT (Current) I am saftified with NVIDIA.