ATi vs Nvidia 2008

[strike105x]

I agree with squall here it would be better to wait for nvidia's 10 series since the price drop will be huge or by that time you could even change your mind seeing how ati starts to screw up opengl again, honestly i don't know how can they screw it up so many times...

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[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

waste of money.
the 5xxx series is just the 4xxx series with doubled specs and a poorly performing tesselator tacked on.

Just how the >GTX260 series is a souped up G92 with GPGPU functions tacked on, while being surpassed in performance and profitability by the competitor.

It would suit you if you'd at least show how it's a poorly performing tesselator.

Originally Posted by Squall

It would make you a fool for throwing away money on a card thats likely to be usurped and replaced within the next 3-6 months.

Welcome to the PC gaming market. What do you think is going to happen when your beloved Fermi will be released?

It's highly doubtful nVidia's cards will even force ATi to drastically lower their prices other than what they would've naturally done anyway. Its high end model will indeed outperform ATi's cards, but it won't compete in the same segment anyway. That's what they'll have the upcoming X2 model for.

Right now the 58XX series are the best price/performance cards out their, the only drawback is availability, at least here it is. People want to play games now, not in half a year.

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[bkwegoharder]

The 5900 series are the dual cards, THE 5970 IS A 5870X2 AND THE 5850 WILL BE A 5950

My bad for the caps, I had caps lock on and i don't feel like retyping

Also ati said that they are confident that they will win this round of the gpu battle and that they have something ready for fermi to compete against.

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Last edited by bkwegoharder; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:13.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by bkwegoharder

The 5900 series are the dual cards, THE 5970 IS A 5870X2 AND THE 5850 WILL BE A 5950

My bad for the caps, I had caps lock on and i don't feel like retyping

Also ati said that they are confident that they will win this round of the gpu battle and that they have something ready for fermi to compete against.

If they're sticking with their roadmaps, they'll have their refresh by the time nVidia releases Fermi. A new chip should be released in Summer.

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[strike105x]

Hardware wise i have no disappointment with ati, but i wish they would do something about there drivers. There better then they used to be but they keep messing up every now and then, especially opengl...

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[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

It would suit you if you'd at least show how it's a poorly performing tesselator.
.

Check out the Heaven benchmark, Tesselation more then halves the FPS, at default settings,

Arguably, Heaven does a heavy amount of tesselation but you can't think for a second that games, as unoptimised as they are will run any better.

Thats not to mention that the cards are already suffering from 5pump failure again, rarely ever achieving 3 ops a clock let alone 5.....

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[Cid Highwind]

Ouch, quite the penalty indeed. I wonder how it will work in games in the future though, it's not like other new features haven't seen improvements. Just look at the enormous SSAO penalty in some games, while Borderlands doesn't seem to have much problems with it at all at my place.

With that second point I think you mean that ATi's shader cores don't do stuff as well as they could, due to steps being unused, right? It's a shame indeed, might that also be due to the focus on nVidia's steps? Just guessing here, as it's been a while since I read about this I don't remember everything.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

They got the ops per clock as optimised as they could in the 4xxx series, but it was still peaking at 4, and only achieving 5 under certain scenario's where the driver was optimised specifically for it.

They have to do the same thing all over again, but the problem is, this time they have twice the shaders to work with.

For (and i don't say this lightly) all current games, its not the video card that is limiting performance, but the CPU.
Crysis performs within 2fps at all resolutions between a 285/5xxx.

and like Strike said... they've killed their opengl again.

I can't help but feel, the 5xxx series is going to turn out just like nvidia's 5xxx series. Technologically superior in terms of quality and capability, powerful on paper, but unable to be utilised effectively.

of course, they can always claim that the games are already at 60fps, and that they are using some kind of low power 3d since full power isn't required.

Speaking of which.

195.39 is the first driver for me which properly utilises low power 3d mode / adaptive power.

my 3d screen saver clocks down to 400/600/300 unless i use AA

speaking of SSAO, the penalty of that in heaven isn't that bad.... though i would've like to see them use HDAO

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Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:33.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[Cid Highwind]

I see, good points

I don't think it will be as bad as the 5000 series though, but it has a chance of turning out to be the 8800GTS of this generation: Supporting the new technology but not being powerful enough to take on the performance hit. Those cards excelled at DX9, but in DX10 their performance took a huge penalty. I'm speaking of the 320bit models btw.

Why would you want low power 3d btw? Can't you set your own profiles like I do with ATi Tray Tools? Besides, who uses screensavers anyway? It's 2009, not '89.

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[Squall-Leonhart]

ambient noise, i need it to sleep these days, and sometimes the sound of my case fans aren't louder then the ringing in my ears.

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[gamefreak94]

Originally Posted by strike105x

Hardware wise i have no disappointment with ati, but i wish they would do something about there drivers. There better then they used to be but they keep messing up every now and then, especially opengl...

*cough* You forgot Linux *cough*

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[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by gamefreak94

*cough* You forgot Linux *cough*

Costs vs revenue I guess.

It's not like making heavy optimizations for <1% of the market helps you out from a financial perspective.

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[nanaya]

You don't go buying a 5870 with Linux in mind.
Linux and PC games don't chime in.

[strike105x]

Originally Posted by gamefreak94

*cough* You forgot Linux *cough*

I don't care about linux so of course i didn't mention it , btw wouldn't it be better to just Rename the Thread ATi vs Nvidia since it would be a waste making another one the 2008 just doesn't fit :P.

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[Lord Zedeck]

On the topic of nVidia vs ATi, it's sad, really. It seems like right now, it's not a question of who is better, but who is the least amount or worse than the other. Does anyone else agree, or am I the only one who feel like both companies are doing their share of feet dragging and bullcrap, per se.

I'm really waiting to see who tries to take easy advantage of this spot for the taking, and it seems like ATi is trying to just a bit more, but it's not by much. Even if you have the hardware, it's useless with poor software backing it's operation up.

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[bkwegoharder]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

Check out the Heaven benchmark, Tesselation more then halves the FPS, at default settings,

Arguably, Heaven does a heavy amount of tesselation but you can't think for a second that games, as unoptimised as they are will run any better.

Thats not to mention that the cards are already suffering from 5pump failure again, rarely ever achieving 3 ops a clock let alone 5.....

Games are already being run at like over 100fps so I don't think that it will be so devastating that the games will be unplayable. but on the otherhand, the more mainstream cards like the 5750 and 5770 would probably be reduced to ash if a really demanding game used tesselation.

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Last edited by bkwegoharder; 2 Weeks Ago at 17:37..

[Squall-Leonhart]

the card benched was a 5850. reduced to 35ish fps at 1024x768, no aa, and default af (Heavens defaults)

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[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by strike105x

I don't care about linux so of course i didn't mention it , btw wouldn't it be better to just Rename the Thread ATi vs Nvidia since it would be a waste making another one the 2008 just doesn't fit :P.

I was hoping to make a new one for this round, but it'd be a one man show, as nVidia hasn't brought anything new since 2008. So expect a new vote once Fermi is out on the market.

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Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

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[bkwegoharder]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

the card benched was a 5850. reduced to 35ish fps at 1024x768, no aa, and default af (Heavens defaults)

Damn. That benchmark is crazy. I ran it on my 4850 in DX11 mode and I only got 40fps on the defaults, and that is without tesselation(since DX10 hardware can't do tesselation)