ATi vs Nvidia 2008

[Squall-Leonhart]

GDDR5 isn't expensive, so theres no reason Nvidia would be cutting the bus back.

Besides, sticking with a GDDR3 bus at 512b provides more power then DDR5 at 2.5x the same speed. ...seriously DDR5 is a load of ****.

the GTX300 series will be manufactured at the 45nm process.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by skoreanime

Uhhh, I believe ATis decided to scrap the 4890X2 model, if you read the second link in my previous post. ATi themselves won't be pumping out a model, but other companies like Sapphire can if they want. But it would be pointless seeing as how ATi themselves said it won't beat a GTX295.

There will probably be driver support for it as well then, I do hope it will be better than the 4850X2 saw in the beginning. Rumours have it there may be a highly overclocked watercooled version. Nice for the real enthusiasts, but not as a mainstream solution.

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

meh, first release will probably suck bad.

Just like the 4870/50?

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

GDDR5 isn't expensive, so theres no reason Nvidia would be cutting the bus back.

Besides, sticking with a GDDR3 bus at 512b provides more power then DDR5 at 2.5x the same speed. ...seriously DDR5 is a load of ****.

the GTX300 series will be manufactured at the 45nm process.

Cutting back the bus width makes the design a lot less complicated. Perhaps they'll leave a 512bit DDR5 model in there in low quantity just to have the performance crown and beat their chest. With the current generation DDR5@256bit performs well enough. It's all about cost efficiency, and that's exactly where ATi put the hurt on them last time. Think they'll make the same mistake again?

__________________

PC Specs:
CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz
GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000
Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1)
SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz
HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB
PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W
Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 1920*1200

Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!

[Squall-Leonhart]

When you have the capability of producing cards with a 512bit bus, why go backwards? The future of performance is wider data paths, rather then base clocks.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[seinfeldx]

why go back you ask, because Nvidia seems to be losing money for each card they sell, they have a much more expensive prodution than Ati, ati sold and is selling 4800 like hotcakes, winning more market, nvidia is lowering prices so that they don't lose even more market, i wouldn't say that is like sony that loses 50 € for each playstation 3 sold, but they are losing a lot of profit because of Ati and how many generation have been the same board with different names.

__________________

C2D E6550 @ 2333 Mhz | HD2600XT | P5KC | 1 + 1 GB G.Skill 6400HK 800 4.4.3.5

[Spyhop]

I've never had an ATi card I wasn't disappointed in....and I keep giving them chances for some reason.

__________________

WINTERFELL - C2D E8400 - DFI Lanparty JR P45-T2RS MATX Motherboard - Mushkin Redline PC2 8000 DDr2 - EVGA Geforce GTX 285 - Silverstone SG01 case
RIVERRUN - Pentium DC 2.5ghz - 4GB OCZ DDR2 - Cheapie ASUS Motherboard w/onboard vid - Antec Sonata III
KING'S LANDING - 80GB Playstation 3

[Squall-Leonhart]

Originally Posted by seinfeldx

why go back you ask, because Nvidia seems to be losing money for each card they sell, they have a much more expensive prodution than Ati, ati sold and is selling 4800 like hotcakes, winning more market, nvidia is lowering prices so that they don't lose even more market, i wouldn't say that is like sony that loses 50 € for each playstation 3 sold, but they are losing a lot of profit because of Ati and how many generation have been the same board with different names.

Nvidia's main losses come from the stink of the nforce range and the range of problems that go with it. Also the rebranding fiasco has put a dent in their consumer reputation. The only thing that will save them at this point is a card worth paying premium to obtain. That card would indeed contain a 16 channel bus and and the fact GDDR5 requires less lanes to access would drop prices anyway, making GDDR5 + 512 cost effective.

Now im not gunna be impressed if the GTX 300 comes out with 256bit GDDR5 running at 4Ghz, because it simply won't get the same bandwidth as 2Gbs at 512b, and thats because GDDR3 has better timings.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[dimentionalrift]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

GDDR5 isn't expensive, so theres no reason Nvidia would be cutting the bus back.

Besides, sticking with a GDDR3 bus at 512b provides more power then DDR5 at 2.5x the same speed. ...seriously DDR5 is a load of ****.

the GTX300 series will be manufactured at the 45nm process.

Well, sorry, but...no!
GDDR5 outperforms GDDR3 - you just can't see the difference because Nvidia uses GDDR3 and ATI uses GDDR5.
Nvidia has a higher quality of driver support, wider buses and seriously buffed-up cores.
The moment Nvidia goes GDDR5 you'll see the real deal.
The GTX300, just like the HD4770 and the HD5xxx, will be manufactured at 40nm (they're both going straight to 40nm, no 45nm in between).
The GTX300 will most likely be an overkill in terms of power consumption for a couple of reasons, as follow:

1) The currently named GTX390 looks just like the GTX295 but a little bonus in power - it has two PCBs (same as the GTX295) yet unlike its predecessor it has TWO cores on each PCB, making it a dual-PCB, QuadSLI card, with a total of 3584MB of GDDR3 (not GDDR5 as expected)...four cores with 448bit and 896MB each on two inter-connected PCBs will need quite a lot of juice to make them run, even if they are 40nm.

2) The card has four seperate 6 pin power connectors - this rules out a very large number the PSUs since only the latest and best have that kind of cable layout.

3) Did I already mention it has FOUR FRIGGIN CORES???

If you doubt it check this link out and make your own mind:
NVIDIA GTX 390 - Quad SLI On Single Card :: TweakTown

__________________
Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

[Squall-Leonhart]

I can see the difference, quite easily in benchmark comparisons.

GDDR5 256 is slower then GDDR3 512. GDDR5 is still infantile, and timings are too high.

Tweaktown isn't a viable source for starters..... and its still too early to be listening to anything anyone says about it..

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[dimentionalrift]

Actually, there is a good chance Tweaktown is right.
Think about it - ATI has nearly finished making a prototype dual-core GPU with their new 40nm process, making it really easy to put 4 cores on a single PCB.
Thing is that ATI has been working on this thing since about the same time Nvidia released the GTX280 and GTX260 cards, so Nvidia is far behind ATI on this subject.
So it's not that difficult to see Nvidia trying to create a 4-core card of their own to try and outmatch anything ATI can put on the table, and that crap up there (the so-called source in my previous post) is probabely the best way to do it........and you have to admit, the photos they got there are not the kind that can be easily faked...

__________________
Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

[skoreanime]

Looks very similar to my GX2, minus the extra cores and GDDRAM of course.

The left part of the cards in the first picture has an empty space. Most likely for the DVI ports they've gotta figure out how to fit in. And maybe a HDMI port too.

[Squall-Leonhart]

actually. they only have HDMI ports.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[skoreanime]

That's....a bold move by Nvidia.

Then again, people who get that card will already have a kick ass monitor with HDMI anyways Still, I don't see why it can't have a couple DVI ports. It can't cost that much more....

[Squall-Leonhart]

mine does :P

HDMI is compatible with DVI anyway.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

---

Last edited by Squall-Leonhart; April 26th, 2009 at 11:14.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

[runawayprisoner]

HDMI is DVI with full wires!

Did you know your average standard DVI cables have a few wires missing? If you use a HDMI cable that has a DVI port (HDMI to DVI cable) and an adapter to convert that DVI port to a HDMI port, guess what happens? Tada... an original HDMI cable. And yes, it's capable of transmitting 5.1 sounds and the likes. I'm using one for my PS3 after all.

I think they originally intended to use that to manufacture monitors with speakers built-in... then... as technology progressed, they "shrunk" the connector down and decided to use it over the old "phat" connector. But they can't call it DVI, lest they piss off the consumers (or confuse the consumers), and thus... HDMI was born.

__________________
cChip interpreter WIP - current status: Release Candidate
LRx Filter RC - current performance rating: 9/10

[Squall-Leonhart]

:P old news

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[dimentionalrift]

Internally, an HDMI connection can give you that extra space you need on the PCB - 5 square inches might not be much to us but from the perspective of a machine using 55nm and 40nm fabrication methods, it's like the grand canyon to us.

__________________
Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

[skoreanime]

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

HDMI is DVI with full wires!

Did you know your average standard DVI cables have a few wires missing? If you use a HDMI cable that has a DVI port (HDMI to DVI cable) and an adapter to convert that DVI port to a HDMI port, guess what happens? Tada... an original HDMI cable. And yes, it's capable of transmitting 5.1 sounds and the likes. I'm using one for my PS3 after all.

I think they originally intended to use that to manufacture monitors with speakers built-in... then... as technology progressed, they "shrunk" the connector down and decided to use it over the old "phat" connector. But they can't call it DVI, lest they piss off the consumers (or confuse the consumers), and thus... HDMI was born.

Yes, already knew that

But DVI is still the standard for computer monitors. But like I said before, maybe it'll only be for this card...seeing as how anyone who can afford this one probably has the income to have a kick ass monitor as well.

[Phil]

That's weird, because a 30" panel requires dual DVI for full 2560 x 1600 resolution

[Squall-Leonhart]

Hdmi = dual dvi.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

[Spyhop]

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

Hdmi = dual dvi.

Isn't it the other way around? HDMI being capable of single link whereas DVI is capable of single or dual, depending on the connector?

__________________

WINTERFELL - C2D E8400 - DFI Lanparty JR P45-T2RS MATX Motherboard - Mushkin Redline PC2 8000 DDr2 - EVGA Geforce GTX 285 - Silverstone SG01 case
RIVERRUN - Pentium DC 2.5ghz - 4GB OCZ DDR2 - Cheapie ASUS Motherboard w/onboard vid - Antec Sonata III
KING'S LANDING - 80GB Playstation 3