ATi vs Nvidia 2008 - Page 17

runawayprisoner · April 12th, 2009

Actually, the case of hardware pushing OS'es are only known on "home" OSes. Technically, you can't "test" more RAM, or more HDD space, or more CPU cores if there isn't any technology that demands it, yeah? I mean... what good is building a 8-core processor if you can't even use it? Or test it to make sure it works as intended for that matter.

That said, the softwares were already built. Then the technology came to mind, and then it was attempted, thus new hardwares are born. Those in the "home" front usually don't get to know about that stuff so it's seemingly hardware pushing the limit of software, whereas the actual software was available for a while before the technology was made public. Or you can blame Microsoft for not caring about "updating" their OSes for the "home" users.

Or simply put, find an update on Windows Update that says something like... "makes life easier for you".

All I can find are updates that say "security patches" or "patching a hole"... or something like that.

__________________
cChip interpreter WIP - current status: Release Candidate
LRx Filter RC - current performance rating: 9/10

**SCHUMI_4EVER** · April 12th, 2009

No RAP, you can build something physical with no practical use, but you can't find a practical use for something that does not exist.

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

skoreanime · April 12th, 2009

It's called theory schumi.

Lots of software are theories written up by talented people. These theories then are put to the test on devices like the Rabbit or Altera boards. If it shows a positive sign, a more specific board is designed. It's what a lot of engineering students do, it's what I've done many times in my course. Some of the profs won't even let you touch the boards until you can get a theory going, plan it out on paper, write a rough draft of it and then present it.

runawayprisoner · April 12th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCHUMI_4EVER

No RAP, you can build something physical with no practical use, but you can't find a practical use for something that does not exist.

No, but the demand of a software still pushes the hardware to the point of existence. That's what I meant.

I admit sometimes we do have something that exists as a proof of concept... but it's still driven by a software concept. Multi-processing was from the concept of having multiple computational cores all working on different parts of the same problem. Even if the hardware does not exist, the idea is still there and we do other things to simulate that effect... until technology allows it. Then it's just a matter of reinterpreting the old way to comply with the new way.

I mean... we went from a single computer, to a cluster of computers, then to multi-core computer, then to cluster of multi-core computers. Then... to god knows what else... but that's the basic concept.

IMO, if we never needed to calculate that fast to begin with, technology wouldn't advance so much.

__________________
cChip interpreter WIP - current status: Release Candidate
LRx Filter RC - current performance rating: 9/10

**SCHUMI_4EVER** · April 12th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by runawayprisoner

No, but the demand of a software still pushes the hardware to the point of existence. That's what I meant.

True, but it's only allowed to push so far...it can't push completely beyond what the hardware can do, it's bound to it and limited to it and has to wait for the hardware to advance before it can advance.

Quote:

I admit sometimes we do have something that exists as a proof of concept... but it's still driven by a software concept. Multi-processing was from the concept of having multiple computational cores all working on different parts of the same problem. Even if the hardware does not exist, the idea is still there and we do other things to simulate that effect... until technology allows it. Then it's just a matter of reinterpreting the old way to comply with the new way.

I mean... we went from a single computer, to a cluster of computers, then to multi-core computer, then to cluster of multi-core computers. Then... to god knows what else... but that's the basic concept.

IMO, if we never needed to calculate that fast to begin with, technology wouldn't advance so much.

That's a little different, it's something which the hardware could do and allowed for, it then merely advanced to allow for greater efficiency of what it could already do.

To tie of up with skore's comment it goes like this.

1. Concept/Theory -> 2. Hardware (or in non-computing terms what physcial items you require to put the concept into action) -> 3. Software (or in non-computing terms attempting to now put the concept into action using the the precreated/obtained items from the previous step).
During the development process both steps 2. and 3. may require revision and refining and it could well be that step 2 has to be changed because of something that was found in step 3, but that does not change that all the way at the start the step have to first go in chronological order before refinement can start.

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

runawayprisoner · April 12th, 2009

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Though I think M$ with their WDDM is certainly causing hell elsewhere...

__________________
cChip interpreter WIP - current status: Release Candidate
LRx Filter RC - current performance rating: 9/10

makotech222 · April 12th, 2009

i liked the new wddm1.1 on win 7. things seem a bit spiffier on my desktop.

__________________

Custom Built Desktop: [Windows 7 build 7600 x64][Intel E8400@3.8ghz] [DDR2 4gb] [Nvidia EVGA Gtx 260(711/1533/2432)] [Creative Soundblaster] [Corsair 550w]
Lenovo X200Tablet: [Windows 7 build 7600 x86][L9400 @1.86ghz][Intel GMA 4500MHD][2gb Ram][160GB 7200rpm][LED-lit Touchscreen/pen-abled]

Quote:

There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.

**Kirby** · April 13th, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinWolf

or a new company comes up which pawns both Ati and nvidia in every thing

S3 was 'staging' a comeback to gaming hardware a few years ago. They set up a booth at Intel Lanfest demoing their "SLii-like" gaming solution....it was playing Company of Heroes at lowest settings, and there were still framerate issues

That's the last I heard about them.

I like to spread the love between the two. Next card will most likely be the 4870x2 (or 4890x2)

__________________

AMD Athlon64 X2 4400+ @ 2.68GHz, Radeon HD4850 512MB, 2GB PC3200 2-3-2-5, ABit AN8-SLi, Sound Blaster X-FI XtremeMusic

skoreanime · April 22nd, 2009

Fudzilla - GTX 295 interferes with garage door remotes

That's pretty funny

Are we going to have to start lining our towers with lead?...

P.S.
Oh, and to nitpick at Kirbys thought...

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...3228&Itemid=65

**SCHUMI_4EVER** · April 22nd, 2009

Rofl, that's hillarious skore

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

mudlord · April 22nd, 2009

Quote:

IMO, if we never needed to calculate that fast to begin with, technology wouldn't advance so much.

Exactly.

OR have software that is tailored for hardware in the present. Not for the future. We don't need Crysis like behemoths for OSes, do we?

dimentionalrift · April 22nd, 2009

[long pause] I can't believe there is still activity in this thread!
BTW, we should probabely start a new thread named "ATi vs Nvidia 2009"...just a thought...
On the matter of hardware I don't really have anything to say except for being a bit disappointed with rushing the way I did and buying the 4870X2...but who knew, right?
To add a little fuel to the fire, it seems Nvidia might lose its edge againg before they'll have the chance to release their GTX300 (the name officially confirmed) - the 4890 that has 3 versions: one single-GPU 1GB GDDR5 version and two dual-GPU versions, one with 2GB and one with 4GB.
The last one has an overclocked core (800MHz instead of 750MHz) and memory (4GHz instead of 3.6GHz).
I know that the overclocking won't give it a major boost, but doubling the memory just might give it the much needed push that the 4870X2 didn't really have.

P.S - After 5 and a half months I finally decided to update my Catalyst driver (8.11)...had to look for my jaw on the floor when I saw that there already was a 9.4 version out for grabs - fixed a lot of glitches in several games and apps...

P.P.S - Will be seeing you guys in the Artworks section later next week

__________________
Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

**Cid Highwind** · April 22nd, 2009

New thread will be made as soon as the ATi HD5k and NV 300 series hit the shelves.

__________________

PC Specs:
CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz

GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000

Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1)
SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz
HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB
PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W
Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 1920*1200

Geometry Wars: 198.400
Lumines: 999.999

Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!

skoreanime · April 22nd, 2009

Uhhh, I believe ATis decided to scrap the 4890X2 model, if you read the second link in my previous post. ATi themselves won't be pumping out a model, but other companies like Sapphire can if they want. But it would be pointless seeing as how ATi themselves said it won't beat a GTX295.

LoneWolf · April 22nd, 2009

i forgot but when our those cards hitting the market

Squall-Leonhart · April 22nd, 2009

ATI - July
Nvidia - October

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

LoneWolf · April 22nd, 2009

yes thank god

26 july is my birthday which means new pc

just hope those HD 5xxx series turn out to be good

Squall-Leonhart · April 22nd, 2009

meh, first release will probably suck bad.

__________________

VBA-M | Xtemu | NGOHQ | Post Impact Productions | TNHW | XBCD 0.2.6 | Satanic666's Emulator Compiles
Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct
Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!.
If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help.
Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

**SCHUMI_4EVER** · April 23rd, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squall-Leonhart

ATI - July
Nvidia - October

Wow, ATI is actually going to be asking the question this time? That's quite surprising that they are not watching and waiting to see what nVidia has first like they usually do, glad to see they finally got some balls.

__________________

Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) | ASUS P5Q | 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 | ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M | Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1

The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!!

No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0

Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!!

!!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

dimentionalrift · April 23rd, 2009

Thing is that Nvidia will be moving to GDDR5, meaning the bus will be cut down to 256bit to be more cost effective to mass-produce.
As this will be the first time Nvidia ever worked with GDDR5, ATI has the upper hand already.
Also, while ATI has officially confirmed its move to 40nm, Nvidia has released no confirmed information regarding advancements in the manufacturing process, thus raising another question as to the real potential of the GTX300 flagship series.
Personally, I'm only 1 month away from going off the grid (drafting is a blitch), so it makes no real difference to me who finishes on top for atleast the next 3 generations...4 and a half years of service is a long time.

__________________
Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

View Poll Results: ATi or nVidia?
ATi FTW!	66	43.42%
nVidia forever!	86	56.58%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

April 12th, 2009	#321 (permalink)
runawayprisoner Mobile Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 6,211	Actually, the case of hardware pushing OS'es are only known on "home" OSes. Technically, you can't "test" more RAM, or more HDD space, or more CPU cores if there isn't any technology that demands it, yeah? I mean... what good is building a 8-core processor if you can't even use it? Or test it to make sure it works as intended for that matter. That said, the softwares were already built. Then the technology came to mind, and then it was attempted, thus new hardwares are born. Those in the "home" front usually don't get to know about that stuff so it's seemingly hardware pushing the limit of software, whereas the actual software was available for a while before the technology was made public. Or you can blame Microsoft for not caring about "updating" their OSes for the "home" users. Or simply put, find an update on Windows Update that says something like... "makes life easier for you". All I can find are updates that say "security patches" or "patching a hole"... or something like that. __________________ cChip interpreter WIP - current status: Release Candidate LRx Filter RC - current performance rating: 9/10

April 12th, 2009	#322 (permalink)
SCHUMI_4EVER Hackin 'n Slashin Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Corrupt Rapist run South Africa Posts: 11,354	No RAP, you can build something physical with no practical use, but you can't find a practical use for something that does not exist. __________________ Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) \| ASUS P5Q \| 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 \| ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M \| Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1 The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!! No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0 Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!! !!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

April 12th, 2009	#323 (permalink)
skoreanime Your resident reaper... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 6,031	It's called theory schumi. Lots of software are theories written up by talented people. These theories then are put to the test on devices like the Rabbit or Altera boards. If it shows a positive sign, a more specific board is designed. It's what a lot of engineering students do, it's what I've done many times in my course. Some of the profs won't even let you touch the boards until you can get a theory going, plan it out on paper, write a rough draft of it and then present it.

April 12th, 2009	#326 (permalink)
runawayprisoner Mobile Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 6,211	Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Though I think M$ with their WDDM is certainly causing hell elsewhere... __________________ cChip interpreter WIP - current status: Release Candidate LRx Filter RC - current performance rating: 9/10

April 22nd, 2009	#329 (permalink)
skoreanime Your resident reaper... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 6,031	Fudzilla - GTX 295 interferes with garage door remotes That's pretty funny Are we going to have to start lining our towers with lead?... P.S. Oh, and to nitpick at Kirbys thought... http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...3228&Itemid=65

April 22nd, 2009	#330 (permalink)
SCHUMI_4EVER Hackin 'n Slashin Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Corrupt Rapist run South Africa Posts: 11,354	Rofl, that's hillarious skore __________________ Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83Ghz stock) \| ASUS P5Q \| 2x2GB Transcend JetRam DDR2-800 \| ASUS ENGTX260\HDTP\896M \| Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1 The Champ has retired but may his Legacy live on FOREVER !!!! No$GBA DS FAQ 2.0 Get it right fools! The glass is HALF-EMPTY, not half-full!!! !!! WARNING: Emulation requires a brain !!! WARNING: Emulation =/= Piracy !!!

April 22nd, 2009	#332 (permalink)
dimentionalrift Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Israel Posts: 544	[long pause] I can't believe there is still activity in this thread! BTW, we should probabely start a new thread named "ATi vs Nvidia 2009"...just a thought... On the matter of hardware I don't really have anything to say except for being a bit disappointed with rushing the way I did and buying the 4870X2...but who knew, right? To add a little fuel to the fire, it seems Nvidia might lose its edge againg before they'll have the chance to release their GTX300 (the name officially confirmed) - the 4890 that has 3 versions: one single-GPU 1GB GDDR5 version and two dual-GPU versions, one with 2GB and one with 4GB. The last one has an overclocked core (800MHz instead of 750MHz) and memory (4GHz instead of 3.6GHz). I know that the overclocking won't give it a major boost, but doubling the memory just might give it the much needed push that the 4870X2 didn't really have. P.S - After 5 and a half months I finally decided to update my Catalyst driver (8.11)...had to look for my jaw on the floor when I saw that there already was a 9.4 version out for grabs - fixed a lot of glitches in several games and apps... P.P.S - Will be seeing you guys in the Artworks section later next week __________________ Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...

April 22nd, 2009	#333 (permalink)
Cid Highwind Human Metal Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Holland / Hungary Posts: 13,552	New thread will be made as soon as the ATi HD5k and NV 300 series hit the shelves. __________________ PC Specs: CPU: Intel Q8200 @ 2.8GHz GPU: Sapphire ATi HD4870 / 1024MB / Core: 801 / Mem: 1000 Mobo: Gigabyte EP35-DS3 (rev 2.1) SPU: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music RAM: 2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 ~ 800MHz HDD: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint, 32MB PSU: Hiper Type-R 580W Monitor: Iiyama B2403WS / 19201200 Geometry Wars: 198.400 Lumines: 999.999 Join the NGEmu Folding @ Home community NOW!*

April 22nd, 2009	#334 (permalink)
skoreanime Your resident reaper... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 6,031	Uhhh, I believe ATis decided to scrap the 4890X2 model, if you read the second link in my previous post. ATi themselves won't be pumping out a model, but other companies like Sapphire can if they want. But it would be pointless seeing as how ATi themselves said it won't beat a GTX295.

April 22nd, 2009	#335 (permalink)
LoneWolf she's my cherry pie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Why do you want to know ? Posts: 1,255	i forgot but when our those cards hitting the market

April 22nd, 2009	#336 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,950	ATI - July Nvidia - October __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

April 22nd, 2009	#337 (permalink)
LoneWolf she's my cherry pie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Why do you want to know ? Posts: 1,255	yes thank god 26 july is my birthday which means new pc just hope those HD 5xxx series turn out to be good

April 22nd, 2009	#338 (permalink)
Squall-Leonhart Behind ur girlfriend :D Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 18,950	meh, first release will probably suck bad. __________________ VBA-M \| Xtemu \| NGOHQ \| Post Impact Productions \| TNHW \| XBCD 0.2.6 \| Satanic666's Emulator Compiles Don't be a NOOB, READ THE NGEmu/EmuForums Rules of Conduct Need Help with ePSXe? This is your first stop!. If you don't post all the required information, you don't get help. Everytime someone posts a romsite, God kills a beautiful woman.

April 23rd, 2009	#340 (permalink)
dimentionalrift Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Israel Posts: 544	Thing is that Nvidia will be moving to GDDR5, meaning the bus will be cut down to 256bit to be more cost effective to mass-produce. As this will be the first time Nvidia ever worked with GDDR5, ATI has the upper hand already. Also, while ATI has officially confirmed its move to 40nm, Nvidia has released no confirmed information regarding advancements in the manufacturing process, thus raising another question as to the real potential of the GTX300 flagship series. Personally, I'm only 1 month away from going off the grid (drafting is a blitch), so it makes no real difference to me who finishes on top for atleast the next 3 generations...4 and a half years of service is a long time. __________________ Step right up! Step right up everyone! Whether you're good or bad, happy or sad! Whether you're an emmotional wreck, or a blissful speck in this blackhole of an existence we call life! Step right up and witness something you will be soon to never forget! Feast your ears on the most deafening sounds of nature to ever be heard! Built for you by the master of...