ATI 4 series delayed

[Elite Knight]

Who knows ATI and Nvidia allways over take each other one ATI is the best next Nvidia is better we just gotta wait and see who will finaly win.

[John Aiton]

no one ever wins, nvidia release ubercard one
ati releases cheap ubercard two

this repeats until intel takes over

[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

nVidia wins again :O

Originally Posted by Thanakil

Overreacting ftw.

Originally Posted by John Aiton

how do you figure?

you do realise ATi could very well delayed to increase performance,
the 4 series will be a lot cheaper than the 9900s

remember the leaked nvidia emails a while back stating the future ati models will be more than a match?

consider that the 9900gtx wil eat power, run hot and have a HUGE die
(big dies = big production cost)

why would nvidia pull such a card out unless the were struggling to best ati?



indeed

Nvidia wins because of superior marketing and business tactics. Even on the lower end where ATI performance wise is competitive Nvidia shall win. On the very high end there is really almost no question that Nvidia will win.

[John Aiton]

Originally Posted by PCXL-Fan

Nvidia wins because of superior marketing and business tactics. Even on the lower end where ATI performance wise is competitive Nvidia shall win. On the very high end there is really almost no question that Nvidia will win.

yeah, true

but i'm weary of the 4870x2
it's not like the 3870x2 where it's crossfire on one pcb with a link chip between the two cores


the 4870x2 will be 2 cores acting and registering as one,
plus with 512bit bandwidth and shared memory

it could very well be better than the huuuge 9900gtx

SPOILER: Highlight text to view.

no one knows anything yet, it's feasible that the 4870 could come close to the 9900 or the 9900 could decimate everything waiting sucks

[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by StriderVM

I don't know.... I think ATI is delaying because if I remember correctly, ATI released the Radeon 3870 early. And that gave NVidia a benchmark to surpass, and released the 8800GT after that. I think ATI's doing the same. Know your enemy first.....

wrong wrong wrong. 3000 series including the 3870 performed about the same as the ati 2900xt but only ran on less juice and cost less to manufacture. It still never competed with the 8800gtx and was less powerful than the 8800gt.

Hey im all for ATI doing good, they are situated in Canada after all, and were formerly canadian owned and its worse for the consumer when ATI does poorly as it lets Nvidia delay release of new cards and bump up prices on their cards, but I'm not gonna sit here and lie and try and put ATI in a better light than they really are in.

[StriderVM]

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. What I mean is not pure performance but value wise. If I remember before, the 8800GTS 640MB costs higher than the Radeon 3870 (Before it was released.) . But even the Radeon 3850 is faster than the 8800GTS 640MB at certain benchmarks. At 1/4 of it's price. That's what I primarily meant.

[PCXL-Fan]

Originally Posted by StriderVM

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. What I mean is not pure performance but value wise. If I remember before, the 8800GTS 640MB costs higher than the Radeon 3870 (Before it was released.) . But even the Radeon 3850 is faster than the 8800GTS 640MB at certain benchmarks. At 1/4 of it's price. That's what I primarily meant.

but the nvidia g80 8800gts 640mb is still overall slightly faster than the 3850 512mb. And its not fair to compare an ATI card that was released almost a year later than the 8800gts. Its like comparing a g80 8800gts 640mb to a g92 8800gt 512mb, they are seperate generations. The 8800gt is cooler, faster, smaller and cheaper when comparing the 2 cards price when they each first hit the market. Its not a fair comparison since the cards and technology are constantly improving.

[StriderVM]

But it costs 1/4 of the 8800GTS 640! And the primary reason I bought one Radeon 3850.

[flamebait]You're just saying the fact you have more money than me because you have an 8800GTX![/flamebait]

But still. I want the Radeon 4000 series to be more competitive performance wise to the GeForce 9000 series. The "underdog" needs some money right now. And it disallows price gouging of the ONLY video card in our country.

[Squall-Leonhart]

no, hes just not the kind of idiot who puts money on a crappity chip.

[Cid Highwind]

Originally Posted by cottonvibes

ATI is in the same situation.

with nVidia's 8800 and 9XXX series of cards, they really took the lead against ATI.
and now ATI will have to release a card thats alot more powerful than nVidia's cards to get back their recognition.

if they release a card thats only on-par with nVidia, then people would just get the nVidia card since they were most-likely pleased with their previous 8800/9XXX series card and would expect to be pleased with their next nVidia card.

With all respect, because I can completely follow your logic, but you lack quite the bit of detailed info.

nVidia is the one who lost marketshare with the GF8 series, ATi and Intel are the big winners. The main reason is because of the laptop market, where ATi has made some killer deals over the last 6 months, and the HD38x0 series was a big success. The main reason why it's such a success is not because it was faster than what nVidia could offer, but because it offered more bang for the buck. Can you tell me when we have last seen a card as powerful in the 100-200 region like the 3850? Normally you could only get crappy midrange cards and anything of that quality would go for 250.

The 3850 was seen as midrange by some, compared to perhaps the 8800GTX and dual solutions it may be so, but compared to the true midrange (HD2600XT/8600GTS) it was definitely close to the high range cards, awesome bang for the buck. On top of that the HD38x0 cards have some nifty technical advantages over nVidia, the chip size first of all, but also lower production costs than the 8800 cards.

Meanwhile the cards do have their Achilles heels: Anti Aliasing and I think it was texture fill rate. However if they can manage to take those away, and have a faster card in general I wonder what answer nVidia has, especially if their GF9 series is nothing more than a rebranded GF8 series. I don't really care about those very expensive cards anyway, neither does 90% of the market. What matters is if these 4850 and 4870 cards will be competitive and how much headroom ATi has when it comes to production costs and retail price. And I expect ATi to do very well in that department, I can only hope so, since it will mean nVidia has to innovate as well, and that's all I would like to see. And I can only hope that it will be like that in the CPU market as well, however that market is a bit less healthy than the GPU market.

Anyway, it's been known for quite some time that these cards would be released in June, I think at first they had it planned for May, so it's not much of a delay anyway. The most concrete date I've heard is that the 4850 and 4870 will be released on the 18th of June, it's from a pretty reputable source: I think the guy is working for ATi or has some other very close connections, he delivers news for VR-Zone as well

The only card that's been delayed more is the dual solution, which will be released in July as things look now.

[fivefeet8]

I think it's a bit early to make such claims that some have already made for the new generation of cards from both IHV's.

Originally Posted by Cid Highwind

Meanwhile the cards do have their Achilles heels: Anti Aliasing and I think it was texture fill rate. However if they can manage to take those away, and have a faster card in general I wonder what answer nVidia has, especially if their GF9 series is nothing more than a rebranded GF8 series.

The rebadged 9 series are already here. The GT200 is Nvidia's next gen which may still be Dx10.1 compliant. It'll be interesting to see what both new cards end up being, but if the current rumors of the new ATi cards are true, then they'll still be using the same base architecture as the 3870 cards but with increase shader/TMU/ROP counts to increase performance. Maybe they've tweaked it enough to really push some high performance efficiency out of it.

I wouldn't worry about Nvidia either since they've already proven on more than 1 occasion, their G8x architecture is a monster performer. And their future generation of cards being based on that will be in good shape.

[Cid Highwind]

Well you're right there FF8, and nVidia has had plenty of time to develop an entirely new architecture as well ever since the 8800GTX got released. I think this next generation will truly be an interesting one, seeing how it's also time for DX10 to take off and put itself aside from DX9, perhaps the entire Assassin's Creed is the first example, seeing how ATi takes advantage of DX10.1. Which is also the reason why I'm holding off from buying an 8800GT. It will simply be worth it to wait quite a bit longer.

[StriderVM]

Cid, well, sadly, that's not true anymore....

Nvidia bullied Ubisoft to remove DX 10.1 support in Assassin's Creed patch? - PC Gaming news - QJ.NET

It seems Ubisoft removed DX10.1 capability in their new patch for Assassins Creed, so some people are thinking it was NVidia's doing.....

[Cid Highwind]

Yeah, I know all about it, but I was just pointing out the fact that DX10.1 does have something to offer and how it can finally step up as a worthy successor.

[SCHUMI-4-EVA]

AMD to use Qimonda's GDDR5 memory with upcoming GPUs - TechSpot News

ATI just officialy confirmed it's use of GDDR5 on the new cards (it was just leaked details before)

[Squall-Leonhart]

They removed the experimental Dx10.1 support because it was broken, white dots appeared on the screen in that mode, and the fact it was faster was actually a result of not rendering all the effects properly.

[John Aiton]

first cooler pics out

[John Aiton]

ahoy, pictures be incoming!

you have to use a foreign toms to view them, American/English toms is an asshouse of asswipes

Přeložená verze http://www.tomshardware.tw/549,news-549.html

[tuanming]

ATi is doing fine now and after AMD bought them over... Don't bash ATi because they can't compete in the "high-end" market. Sooner or later the tide will turn Remember the x19xx vs 7xxx series ATi's doing well on the pricing, which is very affordable on the low to mid-end class/range, and even their top-of-the-line GPUs. Just because Nvidia has the performance cards, it doesn't mean that everyone can afford it